Halyards and Such

Jan 22, 2008
12
Catalina 275 15 Bellevue, WA
Hey Team,

I finally got my new to me Catalina 275 from the boatyard.

Overall I love the boat, but have only been on it once so far.

But I have a few questions:
1. When you are sailing, where do you all keep your spinnaker halyard? When the yard rigged by boat the attached it to the port life line, but it seems sort of odd to have it there.
2. I am disappointed that the boat uses the main halyard as a toping lift. It uses the hard vang when the sail is lowered and the halyard is on the head of the sail. Has anyone created a true topping lift?
3. The main halyard seems to have a really thin line and really doesn't get great traction in the starboard winch. has anyone upgraded this (I spoke to someone else who has sailed another 275 and apparently its the same.
4. I was disappointed that my boat doesn't have two speed winches. is this worth upgrading?

Thanks,

Mike
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,007
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Hey Team,

I finally got my new to me Catalina 275 from the boatyard.

Overall I love the boat, but have only been on it once so far.

But I have a few questions:
1. When you are sailing, where do you all keep your spinnaker halyard? When the yard rigged by boat the attached it to the port life line, but it seems sort of odd to have it there.
2. I am disappointed that the boat uses the main halyard as a toping lift. It uses the hard vang when the sail is lowered and the halyard is on the head of the sail. Has anyone created a true topping lift?
3. The main halyard seems to have a really thin line and really doesn't get great traction in the starboard winch. has anyone upgraded this (I spoke to someone else who has sailed another 275 and apparently its the same.
4. I was disappointed that my boat doesn't have two speed winches. is this worth upgrading?

Thanks,

Mike
#1 Mike, you can secure the halyard anywhere you want it. The reason it was fixed to the life line by the yard crew is to keep it from noisily slapping on the mast if the wind kicks up in the marina, which is a courtesy to your neighbors. I used to tie the halyard to the spreaders with some small stuff to pull it away from the mast, but a while back I started just flipping the halyard around the spreader then clip it to the spin pole ring on the mast. When I sail, I will un loop if from behind the spreaders and either leave it clipped to the ring, or clip it to the life line on the launch side so it's handy when getting the sail ready to hoist. You might find a better way, there's no "right" way... as long as you show your neighbors the courtesy of trying to keep halyard slap to a minimum.

#2 The use of a topping lift has generally been considered obsolete when there is a rigid vang installed to support the weight of the boom. I wrapped my top lift around the backstay when I installed my rigid vang some 20 years ago. Thinking it would be handy should I need it for something.... which I never have... ever. I also clipped off the little pigtail that was crimped on to the backstay for the purpose of holding up the boom when the boat was inactive. What I do now to stabilize the boom while it's moored, is simply clip the main halyard to the end of the boom.... the use the mainsheet tackle to pull down with opposing tension to stabilize the boom to the side of the cockpit, freeing up space. With a rigid vang you'll have absolutely no use for the topping lift, sailing or resting. You should be ecstatic that you have the rigid boom and no longer have to fiddle with the topping lift everytime you tack the mainsail over.

#3 If the line feels uncomfortably thin, you can cover it where it is handled and cleated. I have built a number of halyards that have that feature. The core is high tech single braid such as dyneema (this is the skinny part). In the past it was common to used wire with a rope tail spliced to it for handling and cleating. Now it's more common to use the dyneema as the core (it's actually stronger than wire and is lighter). One reason to use the smaller diameter line is because of the limited width of the sheaves at the masthead. That's why wire was used... because of the space needed for multiple halyards in the masthead. Instead of 1/8" wire spliced to 3/8" rope, I built a "tapered" halyard that used a 3/16" Amsteel (dyneema) core, and then I covered the back half, approximately half the total length) with an inexpensive 5/16" outer layer. This gives me good feel and works well in the cleats and winch. You can by "cover only" line that is sold expressly for this purpose, or simply purchase a less expensive double braid dacron line and use the core of that line to fish the new dyneema core into position as replacement. There is a simple splice called a "bury or tuck" splice which creates the transition from covered to uncovered part of the halyard (the taper) You can find directions for the splice and explanation of how it works at the Samson Ropes website, or practically any rigging guide you can get your hands on. I have written fairly explicit instructions myself, which you may find in the archives from years past. Again... the splice is very simple... and if you want an eye spliced into the single braid (core) end for attaching a shackle it's also very simple... unlike a double braid splice.

#4 Two speed winches. Look mike, you purchased a used boat. There's no telling what the first owner chose when he ordered the boat. But I will tell you that you don't need 2 speed halyard winches for a 27 footer. If you need more power, use a 10" winch handle. Now......Primary winches are different. I love them...but unless you sail with a large headsail you can probably get along with an adequately sized single. I upgraded to self tailing a few years back. Took advantage of the 2 for 1 Lemar promotion that West Marine has every year. Give it some time and get used to your boat... prioritize your upgrades and when the sale comes around you'll know when to pull the trigger....and save yourself $1,000. If you want 2 speeds, I still have the both pair of two speed standards (not self tailing) Barlows I replaced. The 2 speed halyard winches were excellent, but I like self tailing for halyard winches and but you can't find 2 speeds under size 30. I'm happy with the single speed self tailing #16's though.

Good Luck, Have Fun
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,747
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Joe's response sounds like perfect advise.
I was just thinking, on the Mariner 19, there are some sailors who do a lot of overnight trips and hang a hammock on the boom. The use of the halyard clipped to the back of the boom is the best way to support the boom under such a load. Otherwise, a rigid vang is awesome and all you should need.

-Will
 
Jul 19, 2013
384
Pearson 31-2 Boston
Assuming the spinnaker halyard runs aft, I attach the shackle to the the halyard line close to where it exits the base of the mast, then tie the standing part off to a shroud. This keeps the halyard quiet and clear of the jib furler.

If you find a small line to slip on a winch, are you making enough turns on the winch? As a rule your turns should fully cover the drum of the winch. So on a typical winch, a 7/16" sheet may only make four turns, and create enough friction to hold fine, but a 1/4" line may require more like nine turns. The additional turns create the friction needed to hold the line. With the appropriate number of turns, any size line should hold on a winch.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,439
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
1. When you are sailing, where do you all keep your spinnaker halyard? When the yard rigged by boat the attached it to the port life line, but it seems sort of odd to have it there.
It keeps the halyard from slapping and if you have roller furling it keeps the halyard from interfering with the roller furling. When sailing on my boat the spin halyard is clipped to the mast collar at the base of the mast. Make certain both ends of the halyard are on the same side of the forestay. At anchor or at the dock the halyard is clipped to the pulpit.

2. I am disappointed that the boat uses the main halyard as a toping lift. It uses the hard vang when the sail is lowered and the halyard is on the head of the sail. Has anyone created a true topping lift?
This is pretty standard practice for boats with a rigid vang and one of the benefits of the rigid vang as it makes the topping lift superfluous. The only function the topping lift has is to keep the boom from dropping on to someone's head when the sail is lowered and to keep it off the deck when not sailing.

3. The main halyard seems to have a really thin line and really doesn't get great traction in the starboard winch. has anyone upgraded this (I spoke to someone else who has sailed another 275 and apparently its the same.
There can be a few causes of this problem. Some lines are really slippery and do not grip the winch well. The surface of the winch drum may have worn and become smoother reducing its grip. If this is a self-tailing winch, the line may be too small for the tailer, move up one diameter.

4. I was disappointed that my boat doesn't have two speed winches. is this worth upgrading?
For a boat your size? I don't think it is worth the money as the loads on the winch are still fairly low. By the time boats hit 30+ feet, two speed winches are more common. The speeds don't really make sheeting or raising sail faster, they provide a low gear that is useful when the sail is heavily loaded, such as when going up wind in a strong breeze. The last few inches benefit from a low gear. There are other ways to overcome this issue which are a lot cheaper than 2 speed winch.

If you don't have self tailing winches, especially for the jib, a up grade to self-trailers would be worth considering.
 
Aug 21, 2019
156
Catalina 315 18 Grosse Pointe Park, MI
While a 2 speed winch can be coslty, I found it very helpfull on my previous 27'. Even with a long winch handle, that inteferered with the life lines, hauling in the Genoa close hauled was a strain for me and impossible for my wife in heavy air. I have pretty good upper body strength too. Most boats I have crewed on, including smaller ones, also had two speed winches which were very welcome.
 
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F260SS

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Oct 7, 2020
31
Catalina 275 Sport Grapevine
1. You should have some extra loops (probably not the technical term) at the base of your mast. I used a soft shackle to attach the spin halyard to one of those. Mine doesn’t slap the mast when sailing and I wrap the sail cover over it while in the slip. My neighbor has a halyard that slaps constantly.
2. with the rigid vang or kicker you don’t really need a topping lift. I did add lazy jacks to my 275 ( wife calls them happy jacks) and they make dropping the main so much easier. I only deploy them when dropping the main and pull them forward while sailing.
 
Jul 18, 2020
12
Catalina 275 11 Westbrook, CT
Just had inaugural sail in my 2014 I noticed that it seemed to require a lot of tension to prevent the halyard from slipping on the winch, Unlike my Capri 22 couldn't really pull sail up by hand very far. I am wondering if there is maintenance and lubrication that needs to be don on the battcar system.
 
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Likes: Will Gilmore
Oct 19, 2017
7,747
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
I am wondering if there is maintenance and lubrication that needs to be don on the battcar system.
Likely.

Is the halyard hard to pull all the way up or does it get difficult only at the top? You may need to let the sheet free to allow the boom to lift as you near the top of your haul.

-Will
 
Jul 18, 2020
12
Catalina 275 11 Westbrook, CT
Thanks
Usually hoist with sheet running free pretty hard to raise at least as st 1/2 up
Looked at selden and Catalina manuals no mention if lubrication
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,747
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Does the 275 have internal halyards? Fouled halyard, rusty sheave bearing, bent mast, broken slugs?

-Will
 
Jul 18, 2020
12
Catalina 275 11 Westbrook, CT
internal halyards which exit 5-6 feet above base
goes up pretty quietly.
will attach line and try to pull it without load
Thanks