halyard questions

[Foswick]

I just look at it like this:

Up until roughly 1980, 3-strand was the norm for most running rigging. Double braid polyester pretty much phased this out in the '80s. Did people in the 80s enjoy sailing more than people in the 70s, and do they have double braid polyester to thank? No one reflects back to the miserable dark ages when we suffered under the blight of 3-strand.

Not saying that double braid doesn't offer advantages, but in terms of performance, it kind of solves a problem that wasn't much of a problem, for most sailors to begin with. HMPE has been around since the 90s but is only now solving problems (economic and engineering) that start to make it a reasonable choice for recreational sailors. Does it really increase happiness? In some cases, sure, I suppose, if you have a certain personality type.

But honestly, to my mind, if you are worried about a few ounces of weight or an almost imperceptible amount of stretch, you are sailing with too much on your mind. That is my attitude about sailing. People that worry about performance have a hard time understanding why a person would not want to fret over every detail.

Me, I've been there and done that. That is, I've learned and taught how to sail optimally and, if I may say so, am pretty good at it. But, it doesn't bring me joy. What brings me joy is having the boat in good shape, well-stocked with good food, and with no particular destination or no hurry to get there. I think most sailors fall somewhere near that.

So, if HMPE brings you joy, fill your boots. You won't hear me telling you it's wrong. I just think it's important to put this decision into perspective. There seems to be a trend, lately, of implying that if you don't use HMPE at every opportunity, you are doing something "wrong". Every time I see this attitude, I want to replace all of my rigging with manilla, just to restore balance to the universe.

 

[dLj]

Every time I see this attitude, I want to replace all of my rigging with manilla, just to restore balance to the universe.

@Foswick - I just have to say thank you for this line. It has given me great joy!

Hey, just so you know, I know how to do all the steps they used to use for manilla line in this application! Just in case you actually go there.... Hahahahahahahahahahaha

dj

 

[colemj]

So, if HMPE brings you joy, fill your boots. You won't hear me telling you it's wrong. I just think it's important to put this decision into perspective. There seems to be a trend, lately, of implying that if you don't use HMPE at every opportunity, you are doing something "wrong". Every time I see this attitude, I want to replace all of my rigging with manilla, just to restore balance to the universe.

I think you misunderstood this part. People have been suggesting there is a better rope for similar price as double braid polyester. Not that it is doing wrong to use DB polyester. In your example, how many people are using 3-strand rope for running rigging now? Even the small old boats use double braid. The reason is it performs better and is the same price as 3-strand so it was a no-brainer to move up to it regardless. So much so that 3-strand dropped out of production.

BTW, I had a boat in 1973 with double braid polyester running rigging, and boats from the 60's were equipped with it, so it wasn't the 80's by a long shot where this became available or popular.

The move to higher performance DB polyester rope also coincided with the move from cotton canvas sails to tight woven resinated dacron, which required a better rope for control. Similar changes are afoot now, with today's dacron sail material significantly higher performance than just a few years ago, and demanding better control ropes.

While you might not take much joy in having your boat sail to higher performance levels, I think you are incorrect that most others feel this way. Sure, the destination and the mucking about in boats is a large part of the joy, even the main goal, but I don't personally know a single sailor who isn't trying to eek out performance on the way to that destination.

And halyards are a part of that. On our boat, with a 70m2 kevlar and spectra mainsail, using double braid dacron for a halyard would make the boat almost unsailable in anything other than downwind. Same for sheets. Same for the genoa. The stretch would have them like bedsheets and the draft would be moving uncontrollably all over the place. Sizing dacron for stretch would have halyards so thick that they wouldn't move on the sheaves.

The OP's boat isn't this tough on rope or sensitive to stretch, but any boat with decent sails will notice the difference with a good low-stretch halyard. So he can either size up in dacron or for a similar price just get a better rope with lower stretch and not worry about it. If he ever plans on a new sail, he will future proof his boat with better halyards now.

Mark

 

[Foswick]

Man, you like to argue, Mark.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

But honestly, to my mind, if you are worried about a few ounces of weight or an almost imperceptible amount of stretch, you are sailing with too much on your mind. That is my attitude about sailing. People that worry about performance have a hard time understanding why a person would not want to fret over every detail.

It's funny that you put it this way. I tend to put thought into what satisfies me before I make a purchase precisely because it frees my mind from dissatisfaction while I'm sailing. In other words, I also enjoy the freedom and joy that sailing provides, but I just go about filling my cup without the barriers that come from squeezing every nickel to death. Choosing appropriate lines for performance and budget is just a small part of that satisfaction that frees my enjoyment in the moment. That said, the choices are virtually endless. Recommendations are only that.