H49/H50 main sheet input

[T J Furstenau]

So, the specs out of the manual on my H49 call for 170 ft of 9/16" line for my main sheet. I got the boat last year, and have struggled with two things with the main sheet from the beginning. First off is the diameter. I know that my main sheet is far from new, but it does still appear serviceable. The issue is that it hangs in the clutches, almost as if it's oversized. Now, measuring true diameter on an older line can be a bit of a challenge, so not sure if I just have a "fuzzy" 9/16" line or a 5/8" line - regardless, I'd like to look at going to a 1/2" line and was wondering if anyone had done similar. Next issue is the length. Now, I haven't measured the line yet that is installed, but it is WAY to long. I understand that it's set up to be adjustable from helm or from the cabin top, but I probably have at least 30-50' feet of extra coiled up at the end that I have yet to touch in the last 2 summers.

All of that said, looking at going to possibly 130-150' of 1/2" as an offseason upgrade for next year, but wanted to gather some insight/knowledge.

Thanks -
TJ

 

[sail sfbay]

How old is your mainsheet? My 2 cents..........from my experience they get thicker and/or more difficult to manage over time due to sun and water exposure. Appreciate that you want to replace it to avoid hanging up in the clutch. As you noted, the 49 boat spec calls for 14 mm or 9/16". This compares to 7/16" for my 46 If you do not replace with a 7/16" and want to go smaller 1/2" is a good choice.

 

[Ted]

New fiber technology allows you to use a smaller diameter line with less stretch than the originally specified (most likely) polyester line. Before you downsize, make sure your clutch and winch will be able to securely hold the new line.

 

[T J Furstenau]

New fiber technology allows you to use a smaller diameter line with less stretch than the originally specified (most likely) polyester line. Before you downsize, make sure your clutch and winch will be able to securely hold the new line.

Good call on that. The Spinlock clutches have the CAM-0814, so I should be good down to 5/16" (8mm).

... the 49 boat spec calls for 14 mm or 9/16". This compares to 7/16" for my 46 If you do not replace with a 7/16" and want to go smaller 1/2" is a good choice.

Going back to my Hobie days, and even with the H35.5 I had before this boat, where I was doing my main sheet trimming by hand, I'd generally prefer a beefier line, simply for the hand feel. But with the H49, all of the main trimming is being done on a winch. With the higher tech lines now, I could theoretically drop to 7/16" (11mm), so I guess my last decision is how much to shorten up the line. And I do recognize that I can always cut it shorter, but can't cut it longer. Looks like my best bet is to ignore what I don't use on my current line, measure what I DO use, add say 10' to each end, and call it good.

T J

 

[sail sfbay]

........But with the H49, all of the main trimming is being done on a winch. With the higher tech lines now, I could theoretically drop to 7/16" (11mm), so I guess my last decision is how much to shorten up the line......best bet is to ..........measure what I DO use, add say 10' to each end, and call it good.

After I posted I forgot to mention exactly what Ted did as tht is what I do..........agree you should always verify the length you really need by measuring as you suggested,, albeit I have found Hunter's running rigging specs for all my boats have been spot on.

 

[tkwhalen]

On mine I have what, most of the time, I think is excess main sheet but when you let the boom all the way out to the spreaders ( a rare thing and a chaffing thing) you do use most of it from one side of the double end (helm end or cabin top end). If you fly a spinnaker down wind maybe shortening works vs the main all the way out. Try it one day in light air push the boom all the way to the spreaders and see how much is extra there is and base your decision on how you sail. Also, I still have the 9/16 main sheet and it is snug in the clutches at each end. In light air I have to help it through the clutch however in 12 plus knots of wind it will generally pull itself through.

 

[Daze]

@T J Furstenau Curious what diameter line and length you went with for your main sheet and if you are satisfied with it? I replaced my main furling line a few months ago with the 10mm line spec'd by Hunter and found it did not work well and upsized to 12mm. Fortunately, I was able to use the 10mm for the main traveler lines so it wasn't wasted.

 

[T J Furstenau]

@T J Furstenau Curious what diameter line and length you went with for your main sheet and if you are satisfied with it? I replaced my main furling line a few months ago with the 10mm line spec'd by Hunter and found it did not work well and upsized to 12mm. Fortunately, I was able to use the 10mm for the main traveler lines so it wasn't wasted.

Daze -

An answer and a question for you -
Answer - I ended up going with 1/2" line at a little shy of 150'. As luck would have it, I walked into my chandlery and was doing a little window shopping when I found a length of pre-cut (or left over?) line hanging on a hook to the side of the spools. Right diameter, decent length, and as a "remnant" the price was heavily discounted. So I took it. Lucky me. And yes, very happy with it, works great in cleats and on winch, and while I don't really hand trim the main, it does have good hand feel.
Question - for your main furling line, what didn't you like about the 10mm? It's one of the next on the list to replace. I "burned/scorched" a segment of it where it wrapped around the winch on the mast (didn't keep enough tension on it while furling under heavy winds a gust pulled the sail out). It's arguably still serviceable, just not pretty, and whenever I feel that segment go thru my hands I'm reminded of my "whoops" moment. Also, did you do the end to end splice yourself, or have it done? And if you had it done, did they come do it on the boat? Or can you get it installed once the splice is in? (disassemble cam cleats and/or remove guard on mast winch?)

Thanks!

T J

 

[Daze]

I replaced mine as the original parted after the outhaul parted....long story - 35 knot sustaining wind surprise (not forecasted) coming out of the Cape Cod Canal. Anyway, the previous furling line worked fine, although occasionally would slip out of the mast winch. When I replaced it with a new 10mm line it slipped in the winch mast often as it seemed too small to create the appropriate friction for the mast winch to grab. I replaced it with 12 mm and it has been working great and the larger 12mm line is easier on the hands. I spliced it myself after installing through the blocks, leads, and clutches/stoppers. There was some documentation saying that the Seldon blocks should be able to be separated but mine are riveted but maybe yours have screws so a pre-spliced line could be used. Since, I could not separate my blocks I did not look to closely at the clutches to see if those can be separated. Here is a video that I used to splice the line which worked out well.

 

[joshw5144]

As far as the furling line is concerned, I replaced mine recently with 12mm. I don’t remember the exact length that I bought, but I added 15’ because I was doing the splice myself and assumed I’d screw up a few times/feet. Turned out that my splice worked perfect the first time so I was left with the extra length (YouTube videos explain it really well, and there isn’t a super high load anyways). Ended up being perfect to run the furling line to the power winch. Furling with that is a little slower but in higher winds I don’t need to head up as much because of the added power/effortlessness. Fell ass backwards into it but it’s one of my favorite upgrades now.

 

[artboas]

Ok, couple of things…
I went down a full size for my new main sheet,
The original was just too big, got caught up in the rope clutch (too much friction), and simply didn’t need to be that OD.
Other issue was that it was fouling the blocks on the aft end of the boom
The line is plenty big enough to hold in the winch self tailer.

Next…
For the in mast furling line, consider motorizing your port coachroof winch.
It makes main furling a very easy one person job
Put the outhauk on the stab coachroof winch With 3 raps on the drum
Open the clutch
Put the furl in line on the port winch. 3 wraps . Both clutches open
With the boat to wind, drop a wrap off the stbd winch
Then, with the future in the self tail, start to carefully furl in (using the winch), while easing outhaul
VERY IMPORTANT!!!
If the furling line isn’t coming in easily, immediately stop furling.The motorized winch will severely damage the furling if you don’t pay attention to Jam ups.
Once you get to 3/4 furled in, drop to 1 wrap on the outhaul winch.
Then as you’re getting to the last 4 feet of sail to furl in, take the furling line out of the self tail, and literally hand pull it in for the last but.
Thus will give you comfort that there are no jam ups, and that the sail is going to lie well within the mast.
Once again…..
Be very careful not to have your winch damage the furling mechanics my powering through an overlay, etc.

 

[joshw5144]

Ok, couple of things…
I went down a full size for my new main sheet,
The original was just too big, got caught up in the rope clutch (too much friction), and simply didn’t need to be that OD.
Other issue was that it was fouling the blocks on the aft end of the boom
The line is plenty big enough to hold in the winch self tailer.

Next…
For the in mast furling line, consider motorizing your port coachroof winch.
It makes main furling a very easy one person job
Put the outhauk on the stab coachroof winch With 3 raps on the drum
Open the clutch
Put the furl in line on the port winch. 3 wraps . Both clutches open
With the boat to wind, drop a wrap off the stbd winch
Then, with the future in the self tail, start to carefully furl in (using the winch), while easing outhaul
VERY IMPORTANT!!!
If the furling line isn’t coming in easily, immediately stop furling.The motorized winch will severely damage the furling if you don’t pay attention to Jam ups.
Once you get to 3/4 furled in, drop to 1 wrap on the outhaul winch.
Then as you’re getting to the last 4 feet of sail to furl in, take the furling line out of the self tail, and literally hand pull it in for the last but.
Thus will give you comfort that there are no jam ups, and that the sail is going to lie well within the mast.
Once again…..
Be very careful not to have your winch damage the furling mechanics my powering through an overlay, etc.

I looked at adding a motor to the coach roof winch, instead of $2-3k, I added extra line to go back to the power helm winch for $16.00. I can and do follow the same process as you described from the port helm.

 

[artboas]

I looked at adding a motor to the coach roof winch, instead of $2-3k, I added extra line to go back to the power helm winch for $16.00. I can and do follow the same process as you described from the port helm.

I used to do that.
I found that this was prone to overlaps
Main issue is that I single hand my 49z
Therefore, I put the boat on pilot.
Take the outhaul in 1 hand, furled in the other.
I agree that it’s doable your way, but there was another major issue.
Occasionally, I need to take someone aloft on my spin or genus
I am not comfortable taking the halyard all the way back to the other winch. Going through blocks to do this is beyond my level of comfort. I put myself in the “man aloft position”
I wouldn’t go up this way,

So, the coachroof power winch is the primary hoist, and the backup line goes to the other coach roof winch.
There are a few awful stories about people going aloft with lines going through blocks .
also, you can’t use self tailing to send someone aloft.
(read the story of the Amiels 53 in St. Marten)

So, I agree with you, that what you’ve done will work. But safety issues, and being single handed were my driving factors.

 

[joshw5144]

Hmmm, on my boat it’s a straight run from the clutches to the winch. When someone goes up on my boat, the main lifting halyard goes to my bigger primary winch (straight back), and the safety line goes to the cabin top/smaller winch. As for overlap, I haven’t had that problem yet.

 

[Laid-back]

I also suffered from the main furler line slipping in the winch at the mast. I could always furl by going to the mast and using that winch, but it usually slipped too much to do it from the cockpit. The jaws in this winch appeared quite worn from slipping over the years so I have just had a new set installed. I also will be installing a new line and putting a mark on the mast winch so i can immediately see when it is slipping. I run my furling line around the port couch roof winch and over to the powered starboard winch to furl.

 

[T J Furstenau]

I'll take a peak at the mast furling winch before she goes away for the winter and see how that looks. But hoping a new line is all that is really needed. And because you can't get "wraps" around that winch, I have found that it's critical to keep a little tension on the lazy end of the furling line to maintain the grip.

I know I can (and have at least once) used the powered starboard winch for the furling line, I REALLY try to avoid it for a few reasons -

• I'm apprehensive about putting that much load on the furling mechanism. If I can't get it in by hand, I'm likely doing something wrong or something is jammed. I'd be afraid of breaking something with the force from the winch.
• I use the starboard winch to keep a wrap of the outhaul on so that it doesn't get away from me and start flogging all over. THAT line would likely overwhelm whoever is tailing it in a blow.
• With the fancy/schmancy powered winch, furling in the main is one of the few decent bits of exercise that I get on the boat! There may come a time (5, 10, 15 years down the road) where I don't have the strength/ability to do it anymore and will change my tune.