H410 Steering issue

[scottdube]

So we were out this evening for a Fathers Day sail. As we motored out we lost the steering. Wheel turned freely but no rudder movement. Broke out the emergency tiller and was able to steer the boat and grab a mooring. We pulled up the cover and found that the tie rod end on the bellcrank on the bottom of the pedestal had come off. The center portion which contains the ball section of the end had separated from the red ring of the tie rod end. We were able to reassemble it but it does not stay together. It looks like it is an interference fit and needs to be replaced. Now the the next issue is there does not seem to be enough clearance to get the center off of the stud on the bellcrank. It hits the deck before it clears the bottom of the stud. Hs anyone had this apart? Did you have to loosen the entire pedestal to get the tie rod end off? Is it an interference fit or is it fastened somehow?

Thanks in advance

 

[scottdube]

UPDATE: Talked to Edson this morning and ordered the parts. PIA of a repair as the end of the drag link (tie rod end) does not come off the output lever without removing the down shaft (C1). My wheel brake has been inop for a while so I will replace all of that at the same time. Not cheap. He did tell me that these ball joints fail due to age or lack of maintenance. So make sure you are greasing yours at least annually! When it fails you have no steering from the wheel so an ounce of prevention is a good idea!

 

[RobChichester]

So we were out this evening for a Fathers Day sail. As we motored out we lost the steering. Wheel turned freely but no rudder movement. Broke out the emergency tiller and was able to steer the boat and grab a mooring. We pulled up the cover and found that the tie rod end on the bellcrank on the bottom of the pedestal had come off. The center portion which contains the ball section of the end had separated from the red ring of the tie rod end. We were able to reassemble it but it does not stay together. It looks like it is an interference fit and needs to be replaced. Now the the next issue is there does not seem to be enough clearance to get the center off of the stud on the bellcrank. It hits the deck before it clears the bottom of the stud. Hs anyone had this apart? Did you have to loosen the entire pedestal to get the tie rod end off? Is it an interference fit or is it fastened somehow?

Thanks in advanceView attachment 181255

I chose to cut a hole in the deck below the connection the steering arm. I removed the access panel in the aft cabin and drill upward. I used a 3" hole saw, affected the replacement, and then replace the disc cut out and sealed it with caulking (Lifeseal or 4200 works fine). I have had no problems since.

 

[Sailgunner]

Fixing the wheel brake is a project. I bit the bullet and took mine apart. After removing all the parts the brake was fine. Somehow it got jammed. Put it all back together and it is working great. Good luck.

 

[scottdube]

Fixing the wheel brake is a project. I bit the bullet and took mine apart. After removing all the parts the brake was fine. Somehow it got jammed. Put it all back together and it is working great. Good luck.

Dennis, How hard was it to get the output lever off at the bottom? That's the part that concerns me. Also the top of the console, does it come off by just removing the phillips head screws around the lip? How long would you estimate it took to complete?

Thanks!

Scott

 

[scottdube]

I chose to cut a hole in the deck below the connection the steering arm. I removed the access panel in the aft cabin and drill upward. I used a 3" hole saw, affected the replacement, and then replace the disc cut out and sealed it with caulking (Lifeseal or 4200 works fine). I have had no problems since.

Thanks Rob,

I thought about that. I am wanting to get the wheel brake fixed though and this might be the time to get it all done at once.

 

[Sailgunner]

The whole project was really a bear. If I remember correctly, the top comes off with screw removal but was still attached with the shift/throttle (I think). I was able to move it out of the way enough to work on it.
It was really difficult getting the bottom part apart. I did it by myself but my wife had to help me get it back together. I think there is a keyway or something down there that was hard to get back in.
Time wise, hours.
Recommend getting someone to help as four hands are better than two! Make a note where the rudder post is when you remove the arm. Want to make sure you have your wheel centered with the rudder.

 

[Sailgunner]

I also had to replace one of the bearings. Be careful when you remove them.

 

[scottdube]

For anyone interested I'll keep posting pictures as I go along with this project. I got it mostly apart tonight. Getting the output lever off of the down shaft was probably the most challenging but doable you just have to work the shaft and the output lever up and down a little bit until the output lever comes off. I'm still working to get the stainless inner brake shaft out but letting it sit over night with some WD40. I'm amazed at the lack of lubrication on the 3 1/4" shaft bearings. The whole thing is very poorly lubricated and nearly impossible to get at to maintain without taking it all apart.

 

[scottdube]

Project complete, need to sea trial it but it's all back together. A very do-able job if you patient and mechanically inclined. A couple of things I learned that will make it easier for you if you do it yourself. When reinstalling the output lever (C14 on the diagram) I split it a little and inserted 2 fender washers in the gap then I ran a piece of safety wire through the washers to pull them out once the lever was on the downshaft. There is just not much room under there so getting it positioned so you can get the key in and split with a screwdriver was not possible. The second thing I found was that after getting the output lever on the downshaft and tightened up I could not get the wheel shaft reinstalled, the downshaft seemed too high. I messed around for quite a while and finally decided to take the downshaft out again which sucked given the PIA it is to get the output lever on. What I found was that the white plastic ring (pictured above but it's not in the parts diagram) was not seated into the housing correctly. You're probably thinking; well that seems kind of obvious! But it wasn't, and it wasn't easy to get it into the well it sits in either. It's in there very tightly and requires working it back in with a screw driver (at least this one did).

Other than that snafu and the PIA of getting the output lever onto the shaft the job is not too bad. I wish I had done it a while ago now to fix the wheel brake. It also appears they are using a different design on the rod ends that will allow for replacement without disassembling the steering system.

I hope this helps someone in the future, Good luck!

 

[Sailgunner]

Project complete, need to sea trial it but it's all back together. A very do-able job if you patient and mechanically inclined. A couple of things I learned that will make it easier for you if you do it yourself. When reinstalling the output lever (C14 on the diagram) I split it a little and inserted 2 fender washers is the gap then I ran a piece of safety wire through the washers to pull them out once the lever was on the downshaft. There is just not much room under there so getting it positioned so you can get the key in and split with a screwdriver was not possible. The second thing I found was that after getting the output lever on the downshaft and tightened up I could not get the wheel shaft reinstalled, the downshaft seemed too high. I messed around for quite a while and finally decided to take the downshaft out again which sucked given the PIA it is to get the output lever on. What I found was that the white plastic ring (pictured above but it's not in the parts diagram) was not seated into the housing correctly. You're probably thinking; well that seems kind of obvious! But it wasn't, and it wasn't easy to get it into the well it sits in either. It's in there very tightly and requires working it back in with a screw driver (at least this one did).

Other than that snafu and the PIA of getting the output lever onto the shaft the job is not too bad. I wish I had done it a while ago now to fix the wheel brake. It also appears they are using a different design on the rod ends that will allow for replacement without disassembling the steering system.

I hope this helps someone in the future, Good luck!

Congrats!