H410 Start Battery

[Don Lucas]

I just discovered my 3.5 year start battery is DEAD. Looking into I find that the battery disconnect does not really disconnect the battery from the boat electrical charging system at all. So even with it in OFF the start battery has been getting charge every time the house bank has and the inverter selector switch is on. This means for years my start battery has been getting too high a charge because my house batteries had a higher charge profile.

I just wonder if other H410 owners have been experiencing the same.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

I believe Hunter built the system to include either an isolator or ACR to regulate the charge scheme so as to obviate that problem from the start battery. Maybe some dubious prior owner ‘modified’ that. Have you verified neither exists?

 

[Don Lucas]

Well my boat is wired per the manual . That means it get charged through the isolator any time the engine or battery charger is charging, and anytime I have solar on (always) and the invertor selector is on. The start battery disconnect does not isolate the start battery at all from charging.

I don't really like this idea so will need to decide if I want to add a real disconnect switch.

In the meantime I have a new theory that the start battery burned out last week from a near miss lightning strike that spiked DC voltage to who knows what (was kind of exciting).

 

[JamesG161]

That means it get charged through the isolator any time the engine or battery charger is charging

If wired per manual, only when the Engine is running [ also Genset], not when the House batteries charging. Thus isolated.
Jim...

PS: Your ACR is located near the Start Battery On/OFF switch

 

[jssailem]

a near miss lightning strike that spiked DC voltage to who knows what (was kind of exciting).

Kind of exciting... That is a colorful way to describe such an event.

Just because the Hunter wired the battery one way does not mean you have to stick with it if there is a better method to support your charging needs. I get it. If it is not broke don't fix it. But now it appears that it has broken.

If what you say, that you had an overload of DC current in the system, the event may have fried your diodes.

 

[JamesG161]

From the Owners manual...

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Well my boat is wired per the manual . That means it get charged through the isolator any time the engine or battery charger is charging, and anytime I have solar on (always) and the invertor selector is on.

Not sure if that’s the problem but remember that the isolator consists of diodes which result in a typical 0.7V v voltage drop meaning the isolated battery can never receive full charge voltage. If in fact you have the old isolator in the circuit, trash it in favor of an ACR or similar.

 

[Don Lucas]

If wired per manual, only when the Engine is running [ also Genset], not when the House batteries charging. Thus isolated.
Jim...

PS: Your ACR is located near the Start Battery On/OFF switch

there is not ACR in my system even though the manual shows one. All there is is an isolator
that I replaced with the fancy electronic one years ago.

 

[Don Lucas]

- With switches 1&2 off no power to switch 2 loads
- with 1 off and 2 on there is load power at switch
- with 2 off and 1 on there is load power at switch

Power from switch 1 connects through the isolater to the same lug on switch 2 as the start battery. So with 2 off why is there power on the loads of switch 1

 

[jssailem]

there is not ACR in my system

Perhaps there should be.

 

[Don Lucas]

Perhaps there should be.

Why, what would it accomplish?

I have worked on sister H410 that didn't come with the factory inverter/charger. It has an ACR instead of the isolator.

 

[JamesG161]

It has an ACR instead of the isolator.

The ACR is the Isolator.
The propose is to allow your engine/genset alternators to charge your House Batteries, but not the reverse.
Thus the diode, in your drawing, is backwards.
Jim...

 

[Maine Sail]

The ACR is the Isolator.
The propose is to allow your engine/genset alternators to charge your House Batteries, but not the reverse.
Thus the diode, in your drawing, is backwards.
Jim...

An ACR is bi-directional so if someone feeds a charge source to the start battery, such as a shore charger, the ACR works both ways. In a typical cruising boat installation all charging feeds house (or preferably it's always on / charge bus) and then the charge management device, ACR/VSR/Combiner, DC 2 DC charger, Echo Charger etc. feeds start. The only one of these devices that is bi-directional are the ACR/VSR/Combiners. It sounds to me like there could be errant wire creating a connection between banks outside of the devices that are intended to do so only under certain conditions.

 

[JamesG161]

An ACR is bi-directional so if someone feeds a charge source to the start battery

On his H410 and my H430, they did not use the other Connection, to allow Bi-directional use. [unused Corroded in pict]

The grey solenoid makes, when engine key is on.
The Heat Sink device cools the Diodes.

Shown in the page from the H410 manual, my post #6 above, wired just like mine.
Jim...

PS: No Inverter/Charger needed.

 

[Don Lucas]

Just spent 3 hours digging around the cables. It is just like I drew and there is no ACR.

 

[Maine Sail]

On his H410 and my H430, they did not use the other Connection, to allow Bi-directional use. [unused Corroded in pict]

View attachment 195542

The grey solenoid makes, when engine key is on.
The Heat Sink device cools the Diodes.

Shown in the page from the H410 manual, my post #6 above, wired just like mine.
Jim...

PS: No Inverter/Charger needed.

Here's the issue, that's NOT an ACR......

It is a diode isolator, installed/used/wired incorrectly and used with a key-on solenoid that not built for the duty cycle many owners put them through. On later boats Hunter moved to the Blue Sea ACR not that... Diode isolator are directional....

 

[Don Lucas]

I have NO ACR!!!!!!!!

I have a FET isolator and connection from the house batteries (and the alternator) are connected to the input. The output is wired to the same stud on the start battery switch the cable that goes directly to the start battery. The other lug is wired to the engine starter/windlass loads.

 

[Don Lucas]

So I gave up trying to figure out the issue with the switch. Ordered a replacement 1-2-both-off to replace the on-off.

I did find the tech info for the existing Guest switch and there must be something internally wrong with it, but I can not think what it could be unless there are 2 poles inside and one is "stuck". Will try to tear it open to find out.

 

[jssailem]

I have NO ACR!!!!!!!!

Easy Don... We agree with you.
Hunter in there wisdom decided after your boat was built and launched that the "diode isolator" was a not so good choice of equipment. Hunter decided to install Blue Sea ACR's on the newer boats.

Now that you are in "the modification of my electrical system" mood, perhaps an ACR would be an idea to add. It is your choice and no judgement is applied either way.

 

[Don Lucas]

Well I found out how the starter gets power with the battery switch in OFF and all Hunter 410 owners (and I bet 420 and lot of others) should check this on their boat.

There is a jumper wire from the engine alternator to the starter. This effectivity goes around the isolator switch if you have the invertor selector switch selected to a battery. It isn't a big wire, but it is short and enough to start the engine with. It is also why the windlass has power with the start battery in off, but will trip easy if loaded as the jumper drops the voltage soooo much under a windlass load that the current gets high.

There is nothing in the owners manual to have shown this at all.