H37C Yankee.

[Ed Schenck]

Some months ago we debated the dimensions of a '135' yankee. I had suggested that a 135% headsail on a cutter was in relation to the mid-stay. I was overruled, a '135' uses the same formula regardless of whether it is a cutter or a sloop. But then JCII wrote and supported the idea that the cutter formula is different. So at this writing I do not have a clue! At any rate I have attached a picture taken early this year before I even had the staysail on the boat. So you can see that my new '135'(from Lee Sails) is larger than the standard yankee. Enough so that I only use the staysail if someone is catching me. Almost never happens.

 

[Jim Gregory]

Furling the larger h37c Yankee?

It would be nice to have a bit extra up front for those times when the wind begins to be too much for all three working sails but still too light for just one head sail and main. Here are some related questions:1. Did you have to replace your furler to accommodate the larger sail (The original Cruising Designs jib furler on my ’84 h37c still does the job.) or possibly go to a smaller diameter furling line?2. Have you tried sailing with a partially furled Yankee. I have been tempted to try partially furling either headsail, but rarely seem to be on a tack long enough for this sort of fine-tuning.3. What sail combinations do you like? In eight years of sailing my h37c on S.F. Bay, my usage of the different possible sail combinations is approximately as follows:Three sails - 45% up to 20-25 kits or more if reefed;Staysail and main - 25%;Jib and main - 25%;Headsails alone - 5%.Although sailing with just one or two headsails with no main is usually discouraged, I occasionally do this when out for a lazy single-handed sail in moderate breezes. The staysail/main combination also works pretty well and has the attraction of being self-tending and easy to set as my staysail is also on a furler.Jimhunter@gregorys.org

 

[Yehudi]

try a 150

Because we sail on Lake Superior we slide a 150 on the furler for the latter part of July and all of August. The rest of the time the Yankee works well for steadier stronger winds...and yes I put a smaller diameter non-stretch line on the furler to accomodate the 150.It has always been my understanding that a 135 is a 135 is a 135 as long as you're sloop rigged (a cutter is a sloop). The major measuring difference comes into play when you consider being measured et-al for racing. Then, because of the extra sail area created by the staysail, we lose in the ratings.

 

[Sanders LaMont]

Same Bay, similar results

Jim,I have tried sailing with a partially furled jib (Yankee), on a stiff July day on the Bay, and found it unsatisfactory. I played around briefly with this, but found it much less easy to control and less consistent than either using jib or staysail without the other.Your last question gets similar results from me:-- About 50% of the time I use all three sails on San Francisco Bay. In San Diego the number would have been 90% of the time.(I do have heavy and lighter cut sails for different conditions).-- When the wind gets above 20-25k, I find it comfortable to drop the staysail most of the time. Any higher wind speed, or in very rough water, I may furl the jib and keep the staysail. Either way I usually can maintain speed, but ease the heel and reduce or eliminate weather helm. That's probably 10-15% of the time, often in July.-- If I am leaving the dock and the wind is high, I start with a single reef and all three sails(another 10-15% of the time), and then furl the jib if it builds. In 25 knots plus that is my preferred setup: a single reefed main and staysail.-- On really lazy days (like this weekend) I may float around with main and furling jib, which allows minimum work and maximum lunch and relaxing. I'm then moving slow, but looking and feeling good.- - I am still learning, so some of the time drop the staysail on a downwind run,probably because I am still working out how to set that properly.(I didn't make 100%, but you get the idea.)I have a drifter in the bag which I have not learned how to use, as well as a staysail with reef points, but will get the big sail out while the wind is light. I'm told if it passes 10 knots bring it down.See you on the bay...Sanderss/v Good News Marina Bay

 

[Sanders LaMont]

Same Bay, similar results

Jim,I have tried sailing with a partially furled jib (Yankee), on a stiff July day on the Bay, and found it unsatisfactory. I played around briefly with this, but found it much less easy to control and less consistent than either using jib or staysail without the other.Your last question gets similar results from me:-- About 50% of the time I use all three sails on San Francisco Bay. In San Diego the number would have been 90% of the time.(I do have heavy and lighter cut sails for different conditions).-- When the wind gets above 20-25k, I find it comfortable to drop the staysail most of the time. Any higher wind speed, or in very rough water, I may furl the jib and keep the staysail. Either way I usually can maintain speed, but ease the heel and reduce or eliminate weather helm. That's probably 10-15% of the time, often in July.-- If I am leaving the dock and the wind is high, I start with a single reef and all three sails(another 10-15% of the time), and then furl the jib if it builds. In 25 knots plus that is my preferred setup: a single reefed main and staysail.-- On really lazy days (like this weekend) I may float around with main and furling jib, which allows minimum work and maximum lunch and relaxing. I'm then moving slow, but looking and feeling good.- - I am still learning, so some of the time drop the staysail on a downwind run,probably because I am still working out how to set that properly.(I didn't make 100%, but you get the idea.)I have a drifter in the bag which I have not learned how to use, as well as a staysail with reef points, but will get the big sail out while the wind is light. I'm told if it passes 10 knots bring it down.See you on the bay...Sanderss/v Good News Marina Bay

 

[chet p]

tacking is a bitch

hey ed...don't you find taching the bigger sail thru the slot to be a bitch.. I tried the 130 that i have and after one day tacking around on the river where i sail, it went back in the bag and i'm ready to SELL it. Every time it came to tack i had to run up to the bow and feed it thru the slow between the inner stay. i am sure that my local sailmaker will love me as i will most likely be there once a year to have the seams restitched. maybe if i spent more time offshore it would be better but where i sail we tack often...FWIW

 

[Ed Schenck]

Tacking no problem.

Maybe I don't know what "easy" tacking feels like. But I don't think this sail is any worse than the original yankee. In real light winds I sometimes wish I had splices instead of knots on the sheets. It might hang up for a few seconds. You would think it would be bad when you see that more than half the sail is behind the mid-stay but it really isn't. I never go forward to assist it. I should point out that I don't tack very much, there's a lot of open water where I sail on Lake Erie.

 

[jcherubini]

Ed's Yankee; and the J measurement.

I like Ed's set-up. So long as sails can be changed on the furler foil, it looks like he has the best of both worlds flying that big 150 off the outer jibstay when conditions warrant. Yes, it requires some work in tacking but you can't go by what I say because I grew up sailing a cutter-rigged C-44 on the River and tacking was a way of life. And we had NO roller-furling so in summer it was always a walk-around job. The yankee was cut high on that boat and this usually entailed carrying it round by the sheetline itself. But once around it was no bother.In response for what Yehudi said about the jib measurements, the J is always 'assumed' to be from the front face of the mast to the tack fitting of the outermost jibstay. On a cutter this is implied to be the outer jib and you may see the inner one given as J2 or something. This dimension is irrespective of what your sail combinations are and really serves to represent the foot of the largest sail that can be flown on the stay in the foretriangle (i.e., there is no proper J for spinnakers and other stuff set outside).JC 2

 

[Dave Simpson]

Advantage of Oversize Yankee???

We sail off Southern California, and when it comes to beating, I have nothing but admiration for the sailplan of Duet, our 37-c.Running is another matter. Unless we strike the staysail and deliberately and noticeably tack downwind, she acts like a spoiled brat, yawing all over the place and not really going very fast either. Would a 135 or 150 Yankee help? I would still expect to sail off the wind, but what about upwind with the staysail?Right now we have a lightweight Drifter that gets some use, but if I had that big Yankee up there........????Just wondering.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Downwind yankee.

Advantage of an oversize Dave? Not sure as I have only had it this one season. And I probably sail less in a season than you do in a week. It is definitely better than the original, almost acts like a small drifter(which I have and used once this year).I have wondered if there is some way to pole it out? And I have not tried wing-and-wing. My boat sails so well on a reach that, since I am just daysailing, I go for an hour or two on one tack and then back. Why go slow when you don't have to? Picture is last sail of the year. Gosh I miss it.

 

[Yehudi]

150 almost a drifter

If I didn't already have that 150 for lighter air (it is lighter cloth than my Yankee) I would probably want a drifter like Dave. I do pole it out with a whisker pole on a dead down and double wing, but do prefer as broad a reach as possible like Ed. Beyond a broad reach, though, I douse the staysail - it's useless on either side. I remember this past October in 25-30 knots true galloping over 4-6' rollers with the Yankee poled out and furled about 30% with a single reef in the main with a preventer on the opposite side. Yeah, we miss it too! Belize in a month...can't wait!

 

[Yehudi]

Tacking the big one

We have found that when tacking our large 150 in light air, so it successfully slides through the slot between the headstay and inner stay, to come all the way through your tack before releasing what is now the windward sheet. This backwinds the headsail and shoots it through that slot. If you release too early the headsail does tend to flog and get hung up on the inner stay.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Yehudi is right.

I should have mentioned that. His description is the way I learned to tack any foresail. It looks a little strange with the big yankee with about one-third of it wrapped around the forestay. But as soon as I release the now windward sheet it slides right through. Is it hard on the sail? Probably, but maybe less than flogging it? If I was sailing where I had to tack often I would furl it and let the self-tending staysail do the work. Albeit slower.