H33C sink drains/thru-hulls

[Faded501s]

First post so please let me introduce myself. I just bought a '81 33 (largely due to researching on this forum and seeing how much everyone here seems to love their boats!). My plan is to do "the basics" over the next couple of months and then head south from Lake Michigan to warmer climes and do a complete overhaul.

Since she is currently on the hard, my focus right now is getting the bottom sides up to snuff. I'm in the process of stripping down to bare glass and will re-seal with Epiglass/Interprotect and then bottom paint (almost wish I never started that project!). All the through-hulls will be removed and (unfortunately) most likely need to be replaced. Because of this and the current disrepair of the plumbing systems I will also be addressing that.

Sooo...my questions are these...
The galley sink drain is currently routed through the forward cabinet into the port settee to a below-the-waterline thru-hull. From what I have seen this is a common set-up (factory I believe) in the H33C...but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Is there any reason why this couldn't be run straight down through the bottom of the cabinet and through the hull? or even better...straight to the port hull just above the waterline (where the icebox used to be)?

The PO totally disconnected the head sink drain and glassed over the thru-hull that it ran to (straight out the hull above the waterline). It seems the original design was good (plus a seacock). Any reason to set it up any differently?

Apologies if these seem like stupid questions but I've read hundreds of pages here (on all sorts of great subjects!) and just tried searching. This is also my first "big" boat and am unsure about a lot of the whys of design concept. Just trying to get it right (the 1st time) and not sink her the minute she splashes down. Thanks in advance for your help & GREAT forum!

 

[Ed Schenck]

Questions not dumb at all. My head sink drain is original, out through the bootstripe with no valve. Since it is above the waterline it is low on my priority list.

My galley sink drain goes out through a large gate valve. Nearly straight down it bends slightly but out the bottom. Never questioned why it goes out the bottom. I do think the bottom of the sink is very close to level with the waterline. So it might not drain well with an elbow and then horizontally to above the waterline.

The important thru-hulls on my boat are the engine cooling and head water. The originals were 1/2" and could not accept a seacock. Intially I installed bronze elbows and ball valves. I have since replaced the engine thru-hull with 3/4" and a seacock. Still have to do the head thru-hull.

P.S. - I think that I read recently that a Marelon 1/2" seacock is available.

 

[David in Sandusky]

Our '77 h27

I think the head sink drain above the waterline was common to the whole line - that is what we have on our h27, and I see no problems with the design.

Like Ed's h37c, our galley sink drains right below through the bottom. We have had no problems with this in 11 years. To my thinking, draining wash water, and food cleanings above the waterline might not be a good idea, and the straight shot down makes for easy flow.

If your galley drain works, I'd be tempted to let it go. Playing around with new holes for through-hulls is best avoided!

 

[rardiH36]

My 1980 Cherubini Hunter 36 also has the same galley and head sink drain set-ups as you and subsequent responders have described.

I have modified the head sink drain, however. I just didn't feel comfortable with the thru-hull just above the waterline with no protection inside the boat other than the tubing connecting to the sink drain. On a port tack, the starboard waterline thru-hull can be a foot or more under water. So I did thread a marine grade bronze ball valve onto the interior side of the thru-hull. The from this to the sink via the hose. The valve is in the shut position except when the head sink is being used.

Regarding the galley sink, and the thru-hull going into the hull bottom, I keep the valve close except when using the sink.

 

[Nelsonhow]

On my 1983 H-30 the sink drain is almost a straight run to the bottom of the hull. I've had not problems with it.

As long as you are replacing the thru hulls, check the backing plates and make sure they are in good condition. Then replace the gate valves that Hunter (and most other manufacturers of the time) used with proper sea cocks. At a minimum replace the gate valves with marine grade ball valves. Don't use "Home Depot" valves because they are brass not bronze and will corrode out very quickly.

On my boat when I bought her she had a 4 thru hulls with gate valves. The sink and engine cooling valves were frozen open, the head supply was frozen closed and the holding tank discharge valve frozen in the middle. The was not a safe condition so all were replaced will good quality ball valves. The head sink drain is only a little above the water line and this fall it gets a valve too.....

 

[Faded501s]

Thank you all for the replies...sounds like good advice all around. If everything looks right when I cut a hole in the fiberglass pedestal that supports the galley cabinet, I will be running that drain line straight down through the hull and the head sink drain where it originally was, both with proper seacocks...unless someone comes along to advise to the contrary. All the best! Scott

 

[gray_penguin]

I studied the exact thing this spring and decided to install a gray water system. I installed a tank for each sink and re-glassed the holes where the water went out. It REALLY bothered me that the largest and deepest hole in my boat was there ONLY to drain the galley sink.

I have the details posted here: WindDragon.net

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Hate to break it to you, but...

When you connected your gray water tank drains to the black water overboard discharge, you created an illegal system...'cuz CG regs prohibit black and gray water systems from sharing ANY common plumbing, not even vent lines, because of the danger of e-coli migrating into gray water plumbing and---in the event of a backup--into sinks. Yes, I know the odds of a backup...yadayada, etc...but the CG regs exist to protect us from the unexpected worst while expecting the best.

I'm at loss to understand why you even installed gray water tanks, when it would have been so much easier to install sumps that allow you to discharge the drains above the waterline. Gray water tanks are nightmare to maintain...MUCH harder to prevent odor from 'em than in black water tanks. If you haven't already found that out, you will. Sumps otoh are easy.

 

[gray_penguin]

First off, thank your for your thoughts on this matter.

In NC there is a VERY strong push to outlaw ALL discharge. Black and gray water are being lumped together. And eliminating that huge hole was important to my list of making things safer. I am also planning on installing a stand alone fresh water tank to feed the head via gravity. No worrying about did anyone forget to flip the intake water switch off on the head? Or, is that siphon break ever going to malfunction? I use a fresh water in the head now by pouring it in with a little bucket I fill with the head sink and it made a HUGE difference in the odor from the head. I have oil and vinegar on hand but have not had to use it yet.

As far as the sump versus tank thought. I admit I do not have any experience with sumps. The boat does have one for the shower, that is not operational and on my list of things that have to be done. Logically I would think that an open system would smell more then a closed system. I have discharge hoses arranged to serve as "p-traps" to keep the odor from coming up the sink drain. I have charcoal filters on the vent hoses. I guess I have gone to far down my path to change now, so I will just have to experience your points first hand.

I chose the idea of using a manual pump over electric because it takes out a point of failure. And that failure can be caused by lack of electricity or mechanical failure. I think having an extra bellow and baffle for the hand powered gusher pump is a safer alternative.

Now to your point about the CG. I will take that into serious advisement and rectify that problem. If NC forces us to have the gray water pumped out, I guess it would mean that I would have to have 2 pump out outlets. But then the act of pumping out with the same system by the marina will in effect be the same as mixing the black and gray systems.

Still the extremely remote possibility of e-coli riding the pump-out hose from the black discharge to the gray discharge, down the 20 ft of hose through the 2 hand pump baffles into the gray water tank and up the sink drain into the sink.

Soon they will just have to outlaw boats because they are too dangerous to human life.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Re any push to outlaw gray water in NC...

The greenies have tried to push that all over the country for years...it won't happen...'cuz only the feds--the EPA--can actually declare any body of water an NDZ (the states can only request it)...and before the EPA can do that, there'd have to be a change in federal law to include gray water in the No Discharge regs, at least in coastal waters. The only coastal waters in which gray water holding is required is the FL Keys National Marine Sanctuary...a few VERY small areas over very sensitives reefs. In those areas, even bilge water can't go overboard...bilge pump float switches must be disabled. You can't anchor there either.

I am also planning on installing a stand alone fresh water tank to feed the head via gravity.

It would be much simpler to tee the head intake into the head drain line...run water down the sink to flush the toilet....although with your sink drain system, you'd need some valves that wouldn't ordinarily be needed, 'cuz you wouldn't be able to just close the intake seacock. Meanwhile, just pouring water into the bowl to flush isn't good for the pump...'cuz what's in the bowl only goes through the bottom of the pump and out the discharge...leaving the rest of the pump pumping dry, which wears out the rubber parts very quickly, especially if the toilet isn't keep VERY well lubricated...and you've already said you haven't felt any need to use any oil. You could accomplish just as much odor reduction by simply teeing your head intake line into the head sink drain line. Fill the sink with clean fresh water water to rinsing out the system before the boat sits.

You've already WAAY over-complicated what are really very simple systems that require only a minimum maintenance...and you're about to make an even bigger mistake: Plumbing your tank to feed the toilet by gravity can mess up the toilet pump, 'cuz manual toilets are designed to PULL water through 'em. Pushing water through the pump can knock the seals and o-rings out of alignment and otherwise cause all kinds of problems.

Also...how will you prevent water from the tank from overflowing the bowl? I'm sure you'll have a shutoff valve...but how is making sure the valve is turned off any better than making sure the toilet is left in the "dry" mode?

Did you research any marine plumbing standards and/or get any input from industry professionals about the right ways to do it before you decided to do all this? Or did you just decide all on your own how you wanted to do it without any advice?

 

[gray_penguin]

"The greenies have tried to push that all over the country for years...it won't happen"

I was told a very different story by the people in the marina I am in, hard to know who to believe. But a state or even a county in a state can make your life a living hell no matter what the Fed says.

"Or did you just decide all on your own how you wanted to do it without any advice?"

I tend to do things the way I think is best, drawing on my experiences over the years, and lately what I read on the internet. Is that always the best way? No. But at least I can not blame anyone else for doing it wrong and feeling ripped off.

I have found that no matter what you do, someone will deem you an idiot for not doing it the way they do it. In my opinion, that feeling of superiority is the reason we are all saddled with all these "Do what I tell you or else" rules and regulations.

My apologies to the original poster for causing this thread to speed in a different direction.

Thank you Peggie for your suggestions and in the future if I find you were totally correct about all this, I will make sure to post a "You know, Peggie was right!"

 

[sandpiper10471]

I once had a H33. The galley sink thruhull was just at or perhaps a tad below the waterline, just outboard of the sink. No valve- bad idea. The stem on the sink drain rotted away and the drain hose fell sideways. Good thing it fetched up against a cooking pot. Otherwise the end could have fallen below the waterline, giving me a great reason to completely wash and dry the interior.