I am embarking on a plumbing project and need the advice of my fellow H31 owners. My head plumbing system consists of a hose from the head to the holding tank, a hose from the holding tank to a Y valve, a hose from the Y valve to the deck, and a hose from the Y valve through a macerator to the through hull. I propose to replace the hose from the head to the holding tank and the hose from the Y valve, rebuilt macerator, to the through hull. The exising hoses appear to be original (19 years old), as they have cuffs on them, and are corrugated. Space is very tight as you know. I'm proposing to install additional access hatches through the verticle fiberglass bulkhead under the V berth: one to access the macerator assembly and the other to access the head to holding tank connection. The hose to the deck is not accessible under the deck, so I'll leave it alone. Feeding new hoses looks like it will be difficult. Does one coat them with lubricant to get them through the chase between the head and the holding tank? I'd appreciate pointers from anyone who's done this.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
Weeelllll....
"My head plumbing system consists of a hose from the head to the holding tank, a hose from the holding tank to a Y valve, a hose from the Y valve to the deck, and a hose from the Y valve through a macerator to the through hull." So far, so good. I would not bother to rebuild the macerator...you can prob'ly replace it for very little more--in fact, less if the motor is shot. You do NOT want leave the pumpout hose alone...it's the most vulnerable to odor permeation because waste always sits in it to the level in the tank. Cutting new access hatches is a good idea. As for removing the old hose and feeding the new hose through bulkheads, the easiest way to do that MAY be to connect the old hose to the new using a male-male hose connector...pvc cement the hose onto it, butt the ends very tightly...'cuz you want the smoothest unbroken surface possible--nothing to get hung up. Pull the new hose through as you pull the old hose out. Yes, it's gonna be a real stinker of a job...but it's gotta be done. I only wish you could make the designer who made it a d'd near impossible job do it for you. Btw...the link below offers some information that MIGHT make it a little easier.
"My head plumbing system consists of a hose from the head to the holding tank, a hose from the holding tank to a Y valve, a hose from the Y valve to the deck, and a hose from the Y valve through a macerator to the through hull." So far, so good. I would not bother to rebuild the macerator...you can prob'ly replace it for very little more--in fact, less if the motor is shot. You do NOT want leave the pumpout hose alone...it's the most vulnerable to odor permeation because waste always sits in it to the level in the tank. Cutting new access hatches is a good idea. As for removing the old hose and feeding the new hose through bulkheads, the easiest way to do that MAY be to connect the old hose to the new using a male-male hose connector...pvc cement the hose onto it, butt the ends very tightly...'cuz you want the smoothest unbroken surface possible--nothing to get hung up. Pull the new hose through as you pull the old hose out. Yes, it's gonna be a real stinker of a job...but it's gotta be done. I only wish you could make the designer who made it a d'd near impossible job do it for you. Btw...the link below offers some information that MIGHT make it a little easier.
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Mark
Check Your Hoses again
Tim you might want to check how your hoses run to the holding tank again. My hose runs from the head to the Y-valve at the Y-valve there is a hose the runs to the thru hull and another that runs from the Y-valve into the holding tank. The hose that runs from the holding tank runs to another thru hull. I am going to check again Friday when I go down to the the boat.
Tim you might want to check how your hoses run to the holding tank again. My hose runs from the head to the Y-valve at the Y-valve there is a hose the runs to the thru hull and another that runs from the Y-valve into the holding tank. The hose that runs from the holding tank runs to another thru hull. I am going to check again Friday when I go down to the the boat.
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Laura Bertran
I did it on my H31...
...I didn't cut new access hatches in the v-berth and as a result, I was not able to get the new hose from the head on to the holding tank tightly enough, so it leaks a little. I'm getting ready to cut an access hatch to correct this. Running the hoses was not a walk in the park but it was doable. I didn't use any lubrication. I did use a straightened out wire hanger taped to the new hose, to fish it through the concealed area between the v berth and the head. I replaced the hose leading up to the deck by cutting an access hole in the head cabin liner, right in front of the deck fitting. When I removed the hose, I took the opportunity to replace the deck fitting as well. I'm glad I did this because hole throught the deck was a bit too big for the fitting and allowed water to leak into the deck. I ended up using West System to fill the holw and drilled a new one for the new fitting. Good luck. It sounds harder than it is.
...I didn't cut new access hatches in the v-berth and as a result, I was not able to get the new hose from the head on to the holding tank tightly enough, so it leaks a little. I'm getting ready to cut an access hatch to correct this. Running the hoses was not a walk in the park but it was doable. I didn't use any lubrication. I did use a straightened out wire hanger taped to the new hose, to fish it through the concealed area between the v berth and the head. I replaced the hose leading up to the deck by cutting an access hole in the head cabin liner, right in front of the deck fitting. When I removed the hose, I took the opportunity to replace the deck fitting as well. I'm glad I did this because hole throught the deck was a bit too big for the fitting and allowed water to leak into the deck. I ended up using West System to fill the holw and drilled a new one for the new fitting. Good luck. It sounds harder than it is.
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Peggie Hall/HeadMistress
Mark, his may not be the same as yours
There are a number of ways to plumb sanitation plumbing. Head to tank, tank to pumpout only is the most common OEM installation...however, it's not uncommon for boats in coastal waters to also have the means of dumping the tank at sea. In most cases, a y-valve in the head discharge line that provides the option of flushing into the tank or flushing the toilet directly overboard at sea beyond the "3 mile limit," has been owner added. Your boat should also have a tee fitting or y-valve (y-valve recommended, but builders often use tees to cut costs) in the tank discharge line that offers a choice of pumping out the tank or dumping it at sea. In fact, unless your tank is plumbed for pumpout--if dumping at sea is the only way to empty it--your installation is illegal.
There are a number of ways to plumb sanitation plumbing. Head to tank, tank to pumpout only is the most common OEM installation...however, it's not uncommon for boats in coastal waters to also have the means of dumping the tank at sea. In most cases, a y-valve in the head discharge line that provides the option of flushing into the tank or flushing the toilet directly overboard at sea beyond the "3 mile limit," has been owner added. Your boat should also have a tee fitting or y-valve (y-valve recommended, but builders often use tees to cut costs) in the tank discharge line that offers a choice of pumping out the tank or dumping it at sea. In fact, unless your tank is plumbed for pumpout--if dumping at sea is the only way to empty it--your installation is illegal.
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joe phibbs
Spend $ and trust Peggy
Don't waste your money on cheap hoses: get the best. We have done the job twice on our 31footer. Buy the book and get ready for a smelly, knuckle-busting weekend. If you use a hairdryer to soften the new hose to fit onto the fixtures, be careful to do no iatragenic damage by getting pipe too hot or squeezing the pipe flat when you tighten the clamps. good luck, Joe
Don't waste your money on cheap hoses: get the best. We have done the job twice on our 31footer. Buy the book and get ready for a smelly, knuckle-busting weekend. If you use a hairdryer to soften the new hose to fit onto the fixtures, be careful to do no iatragenic damage by getting pipe too hot or squeezing the pipe flat when you tighten the clamps. good luck, Joe
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Daryl
I don't write or sell books but ......
there is no better system than one built from PVC pipe. It will last forever and cost a small fraction of the amount you'll spend on proper sanitation hose. NO smells, NO leaks, and the supplies come from Home Depot
there is no better system than one built from PVC pipe. It will last forever and cost a small fraction of the amount you'll spend on proper sanitation hose. NO smells, NO leaks, and the supplies come from Home Depot
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Peggie Hall/HeadMistress
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Daryl
Simple Answer
I'm old enough to remember when all homes had iron waste lines. Many folks were worried about using plastic when it was first introduced. I believe they'll all have it one day but no production boat company wants to be first. Everyone knows there is a substantial price difference. The first user will be labled as cheap/ My surveyor says it fine. I have had excellent results and can't think of a technical reason no to continue using it. Having used it in household projects I find it very easy to work with (and readily available). Amazing how many marine outlets don't stock the good stuff any way. My first installation was years ago because I didn't want to special order some and wait. No regrets and the current owner is still using it.
I'm old enough to remember when all homes had iron waste lines. Many folks were worried about using plastic when it was first introduced. I believe they'll all have it one day but no production boat company wants to be first. Everyone knows there is a substantial price difference. The first user will be labled as cheap/ My surveyor says it fine. I have had excellent results and can't think of a technical reason no to continue using it. Having used it in household projects I find it very easy to work with (and readily available). Amazing how many marine outlets don't stock the good stuff any way. My first installation was years ago because I didn't want to special order some and wait. No regrets and the current owner is still using it.
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Gil C. - the Wanderin' One
Did that a few years ago
It's a tough job. DO REPLACE ALL THE HOSES with whatever materials you choose, but most anything is better than those old cuffed hoses. If I did it again, I would use Peggys' idea about the male connectors to connect the old hose to new, and would use Sailcoat spray, not silicone or WD40 as a libricant to pull them thru. Good luck.
It's a tough job. DO REPLACE ALL THE HOSES with whatever materials you choose, but most anything is better than those old cuffed hoses. If I did it again, I would use Peggys' idea about the male connectors to connect the old hose to new, and would use Sailcoat spray, not silicone or WD40 as a libricant to pull them thru. Good luck.
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M. Kraus
Hose replacement
I did this job on my previous boat (h31) and am doing it now on my Freedom 36. A Few Suggestions. : 1. PVC is great , where you can use it. If you have long runs that won't bind, go for it. All my runs are combination PVC and sealand odorsafe. Sealand has no barb fittings which can be used with pvc fittings. Since odor safe doesnt bend easily, use pvc bends with sealand no barb fittings to make up the bends and run straight pieces of odorsafe. 2. GET RID OF THE MACERATOR. the pump sucks, will burn out on you at the least opportune time and is near impossible to fix. Install a Sealand T12 bellows waste pump instead. Bullit proof. 3. If you use the T12, you can get rid of the y valve which choses overboard or deck pump out and just use a T fitting . The one way valves in the pump will prevent air leakage thru the pump and allow the deck pump out with outhaving to isolate the waste pump.
I did this job on my previous boat (h31) and am doing it now on my Freedom 36. A Few Suggestions. : 1. PVC is great , where you can use it. If you have long runs that won't bind, go for it. All my runs are combination PVC and sealand odorsafe. Sealand has no barb fittings which can be used with pvc fittings. Since odor safe doesnt bend easily, use pvc bends with sealand no barb fittings to make up the bends and run straight pieces of odorsafe. 2. GET RID OF THE MACERATOR. the pump sucks, will burn out on you at the least opportune time and is near impossible to fix. Install a Sealand T12 bellows waste pump instead. Bullit proof. 3. If you use the T12, you can get rid of the y valve which choses overboard or deck pump out and just use a T fitting . The one way valves in the pump will prevent air leakage thru the pump and allow the deck pump out with outhaving to isolate the waste pump.
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Jerry
31' Hose Job!
We ran the good hose twice in our old 31' which we sold a few months ago. About $350 in materials each time What a bear of a job. The third time we used PVC with hose ends only. I changed the hose ends each year. On the 31' you need to run them on the inside of the pan right above the interior access door below the v-birth. I had a fabric cover to hide the pipes. I believe the real reason hose is used is the amount of time it takes to measure and custom fit rigid PVC at the factory. If you have ever looked behind the beautiful teak interior you will find real crude workmenship in fitting and bolting connections or other services so I think the boat labor is in a real hurry. In that case hose makes a better choice for the builder although it sometimes destroyes your boating expierences when the ordor coates the interior of your mega buck investment.
We ran the good hose twice in our old 31' which we sold a few months ago. About $350 in materials each time What a bear of a job. The third time we used PVC with hose ends only. I changed the hose ends each year. On the 31' you need to run them on the inside of the pan right above the interior access door below the v-birth. I had a fabric cover to hide the pipes. I believe the real reason hose is used is the amount of time it takes to measure and custom fit rigid PVC at the factory. If you have ever looked behind the beautiful teak interior you will find real crude workmenship in fitting and bolting connections or other services so I think the boat labor is in a real hurry. In that case hose makes a better choice for the builder although it sometimes destroyes your boating expierences when the ordor coates the interior of your mega buck investment.
T
Tim Op't Holt
Thanks!
Thanks for all your suggestions. I'll probably go with regular sanitation hose, since as you know, there are some twists and turns in the chase through which tubing must pass. The high-class hose is too expensive ($7.50/ft). If I can, I may use an elbow or two to prevent having to bend the hose.The manual pump idea is possible, although I was unable to find the Sea Land T12 product, there is a Henderson pump available at Boat US. While it is more expensive, I'd guess it is trouble-free, and if I can find a place to mount it, I'll give it thought. I was surprised that it is actually faster than the macerator (16 gpm). I believe I'll be putting two 7x11 Bomar access hatches under the V-berth cushions, side by side. I hope that does not excessively weaken that platform. I'm having a strategy session with a colleague this Saturday.
Thanks for all your suggestions. I'll probably go with regular sanitation hose, since as you know, there are some twists and turns in the chase through which tubing must pass. The high-class hose is too expensive ($7.50/ft). If I can, I may use an elbow or two to prevent having to bend the hose.The manual pump idea is possible, although I was unable to find the Sea Land T12 product, there is a Henderson pump available at Boat US. While it is more expensive, I'd guess it is trouble-free, and if I can find a place to mount it, I'll give it thought. I was surprised that it is actually faster than the macerator (16 gpm). I believe I'll be putting two 7x11 Bomar access hatches under the V-berth cushions, side by side. I hope that does not excessively weaken that platform. I'm having a strategy session with a colleague this Saturday.
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Peggie Hall/HeadMistress
SeaLand T-12 is an electric pump
An electric diaphragm pump...the best on the market. Electric diaphragm pumps are a much better choice than an impeller pump because diaphragm pumps can run dry without harm...impeller pumps can't.
An electric diaphragm pump...the best on the market. Electric diaphragm pumps are a much better choice than an impeller pump because diaphragm pumps can run dry without harm...impeller pumps can't.
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Jim
Just did my H-31
I must have been lucky, it wasn't all that hard or stinky, i did connect the new hose ends to the old with a coupling and wrapped duct tape around them to hold them together. I had to put a pvc elbow to make the corner where the hose comes out from behind the wall on the port side to make the corner to the macerator. I used the trident odor safe hose. pretty stiff stuff, double hose clamp all joints or you may have some leaks. Unscrew the mounting holes on the deck fitting and pull it up you will find the hose, hose clamped there and be able to access it topside. The hoses slid fairly easily through the small run on the starboard side with one person pushing and the other pulling from under the v-berth. I did not cut any extra holes. The hardest part was putting all the hose clamps on in the cubby hole under the v-berth with one hand. Jim
I must have been lucky, it wasn't all that hard or stinky, i did connect the new hose ends to the old with a coupling and wrapped duct tape around them to hold them together. I had to put a pvc elbow to make the corner where the hose comes out from behind the wall on the port side to make the corner to the macerator. I used the trident odor safe hose. pretty stiff stuff, double hose clamp all joints or you may have some leaks. Unscrew the mounting holes on the deck fitting and pull it up you will find the hose, hose clamped there and be able to access it topside. The hoses slid fairly easily through the small run on the starboard side with one person pushing and the other pulling from under the v-berth. I did not cut any extra holes. The hardest part was putting all the hose clamps on in the cubby hole under the v-berth with one hand. Jim
Regular Sanitation Hose?
Tim: I am not sure what you are speaking about "regular sanitation hose". Like Jim we used the Trident hose that they sell at West Marine. It has been installed for over 10 years and we do not have any odor problems. It is only marginally easier to work with than the Sealand hose, but easier none-the-less. I think you may want to consider some schedule 80 PVC with elbows and shorter pieces of hose if you can make the entire thing work. Believe everyone, you really don't want to do this again. I think you would be better off cutting a larger opening under the v-berth than cutting multiple holes in the platform. One of those may be okay but I would not do two of them. You can have a custom door made at H & L Marine to cover the opening which would make life easier in the event that you need to work under the vberth in the future too.
Tim: I am not sure what you are speaking about "regular sanitation hose". Like Jim we used the Trident hose that they sell at West Marine. It has been installed for over 10 years and we do not have any odor problems. It is only marginally easier to work with than the Sealand hose, but easier none-the-less. I think you may want to consider some schedule 80 PVC with elbows and shorter pieces of hose if you can make the entire thing work. Believe everyone, you really don't want to do this again. I think you would be better off cutting a larger opening under the v-berth than cutting multiple holes in the platform. One of those may be okay but I would not do two of them. You can have a custom door made at H & L Marine to cover the opening which would make life easier in the event that you need to work under the vberth in the future too.
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