Earlier this year, I got an email address from someone on the Forum for a jpeg of the H30 owner's manual. http://people.ne.mediaone.net/tlyons/tdl/hunter/index.html. That address is now invalid. Does anyone have an alternate source for this manual?
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Ed Schenck
Our loss.
That was such a good source, now it is gone. Never did know who loaded that. There were some others on that URL also, all gone now. I have never seen that document in print or I would reload it myself. Was there something specific that you are looking for? Individuals may have some pages saved if not the entire manual.
That was such a good source, now it is gone. Never did know who loaded that. There were some others on that URL also, all gone now. I have never seen that document in print or I would reload it myself. Was there something specific that you are looking for? Individuals may have some pages saved if not the entire manual.
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Ron Mills
Call Hunter
Based on what John found out regarding the H34 it would be better to call Hunter and order a photstat of the H30 for $20 than try to find the pieces. I have the original H34 manual and it does not have anything close to what John received when he ordered the H34 manual from Hunter.
Based on what John found out regarding the H34 it would be better to call Hunter and order a photstat of the H30 for $20 than try to find the pieces. I have the original H34 manual and it does not have anything close to what John received when he ordered the H34 manual from Hunter.
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David Popken
Looking for tuning specs....
I'm still trying to get a handle on the original pre-bend and mast rake specifications for my '78 H30. Recently, I followed a thread on the Forum that got me to an '83 H31 manual and it had a section on stepping the mast and tuning, including pre-bend amounts and rake, but it was a double spreader, B&R rig. I posted the mast rake question on the Forum a few months ago (-6")and most thought that 6" was too much rake. The real issue is too much weather helm in nearly all wind conditions and points of sail. I have old, baggy sails that apparently contribute as well. Anyway, I have new mainsail on the way, but would also like to reduce rake as part of the upgrade.
I'm still trying to get a handle on the original pre-bend and mast rake specifications for my '78 H30. Recently, I followed a thread on the Forum that got me to an '83 H31 manual and it had a section on stepping the mast and tuning, including pre-bend amounts and rake, but it was a double spreader, B&R rig. I posted the mast rake question on the Forum a few months ago (-6")and most thought that 6" was too much rake. The real issue is too much weather helm in nearly all wind conditions and points of sail. I have old, baggy sails that apparently contribute as well. Anyway, I have new mainsail on the way, but would also like to reduce rake as part of the upgrade.
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Tim L.
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Tim L.
But...
there's nothing in there about mast rake. A new main will help a lot; for my tall mast, deep draft H30 the key is to depower the main as the wind pipes up. 1. flatten with the cunningham and lots of halyard tension 2. tighten the sheet and drop the traveler off to leeward 3. reef the main 4. flatten out the boat by reefing the genoa Given that its difficult at best to bend a masthead rig, rake never did much for me. At 6" of rake, I'd be worried about weakening the rig by putting the mast out of column. BTW, are you moving the mast forward or back?
there's nothing in there about mast rake. A new main will help a lot; for my tall mast, deep draft H30 the key is to depower the main as the wind pipes up. 1. flatten with the cunningham and lots of halyard tension 2. tighten the sheet and drop the traveler off to leeward 3. reef the main 4. flatten out the boat by reefing the genoa Given that its difficult at best to bend a masthead rig, rake never did much for me. At 6" of rake, I'd be worried about weakening the rig by putting the mast out of column. BTW, are you moving the mast forward or back?
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David Foster
Rake is not bend
Rake means moving the angle the mast makes wwith the deck. 3-4% aft rake will take the wind (which blows down at that angle) at the most perdendicular to the mast. More rake means more weather helm, and vice versa. Bending the mast with the backstay(s) does flatten the main., but was not typically intended in the older masts with large cross-sections, and one spreader. David Lady Lillie
Rake means moving the angle the mast makes wwith the deck. 3-4% aft rake will take the wind (which blows down at that angle) at the most perdendicular to the mast. More rake means more weather helm, and vice versa. Bending the mast with the backstay(s) does flatten the main., but was not typically intended in the older masts with large cross-sections, and one spreader. David Lady Lillie
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Ed Schenck
Thanks Tim, but. . .
why would you "take it down"? If it is a matter of cost then I know we Cherubini owners will take that on. It is such a good reference for a lot of the Cherubini questions that we get.
why would you "take it down"? If it is a matter of cost then I know we Cherubini owners will take that on. It is such a good reference for a lot of the Cherubini questions that we get.
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David Popken
Moving mast nearer to perpendicular
From what I have read, and input from Forum members, the mast should not be raked aft 6".
From what I have read, and input from Forum members, the mast should not be raked aft 6".
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David Popken
You're right, rake and bend
are not the same. According to a local rigger here, there should be a small amount of pre-bend in the mast as well as a few degrees of aft rake.
are not the same. According to a local rigger here, there should be a small amount of pre-bend in the mast as well as a few degrees of aft rake.
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David Foster
Tuning Procedure
David, here is the rig tuning procedure I learned from Capt. Carl Romig of Adventure Plus in Sanduskey, as modified by my experience, and several discussions on this forum. Since your rig is bigger, you will need more tension. A maximum sometimes quoted is 20% of rated strength (5,000 pounds for 3/16's cable) for the uppers, and 10% for the lowers. I would not change the rake until you sail her with the new main - we found that a new main eliminated the excessive weather helm at lower wind speeds. Now, weather helm means winds are over 15 knots, and it's time to reef. It also cut heel by 5 degrees, and gave us another 1 to 1.5 knots of speed in good winds. David Lady Lillie Rig tuning procedure: We hired an instructor (Carl Romig of Adventure Plus in Sandusky, OH) on our first week-end with Lady Lillie to run us through safety, tune our rig, and then take us for a day long review of sailing a keel boat. He recommended tensions around 420 for the lowers and 550 for the uppers (that's either side of 10% of the rated strength of our 3/16's stays. First we set the rake with a weight on the main halyard about 7 inches behind the mast at the height of the boom. John Cherubini, Jr. said in a recent post that he remembered 12 inches measured at the deck. The the head and back stays are tightened together to their their tension, by taking the same number of turns on each in steps, and measuring the result with the Loos guage. The top side stays are then positioned by measuring from the main halyard to the plates on both sides to be sure they are the same length (and, therefore, that the mast is centered side to side.) Then both are tightened to their tension. Then the lower stays are adjusted so that the mast is "in column" that is, straight, with no bend side to side, or fore and aft. (Racing rigs may have adjustable backstays to adjust sail shape, but I have never seen this on and h-27. Anyway, the initial set-up should be in column, then adjusted with the the backstay for shaping while under way.) Once the mast is in column, the lower stays are tightened to their tension. Then, it's around one more time to get the tensions right, always tightening opposing stays the same number of turns, and then measuring. That's it. Our mast comes down each year, so I'm getting pretty good at this. It's true that there is no official number for the tension. But the minimum condition is that there is never any sag of the leeward shrouds under any sailing conditions. Although the tension on the downwind stays will decrease, this should never loosen them enough to sag - that's a danger to the rig.
David, here is the rig tuning procedure I learned from Capt. Carl Romig of Adventure Plus in Sanduskey, as modified by my experience, and several discussions on this forum. Since your rig is bigger, you will need more tension. A maximum sometimes quoted is 20% of rated strength (5,000 pounds for 3/16's cable) for the uppers, and 10% for the lowers. I would not change the rake until you sail her with the new main - we found that a new main eliminated the excessive weather helm at lower wind speeds. Now, weather helm means winds are over 15 knots, and it's time to reef. It also cut heel by 5 degrees, and gave us another 1 to 1.5 knots of speed in good winds. David Lady Lillie Rig tuning procedure: We hired an instructor (Carl Romig of Adventure Plus in Sandusky, OH) on our first week-end with Lady Lillie to run us through safety, tune our rig, and then take us for a day long review of sailing a keel boat. He recommended tensions around 420 for the lowers and 550 for the uppers (that's either side of 10% of the rated strength of our 3/16's stays. First we set the rake with a weight on the main halyard about 7 inches behind the mast at the height of the boom. John Cherubini, Jr. said in a recent post that he remembered 12 inches measured at the deck. The the head and back stays are tightened together to their their tension, by taking the same number of turns on each in steps, and measuring the result with the Loos guage. The top side stays are then positioned by measuring from the main halyard to the plates on both sides to be sure they are the same length (and, therefore, that the mast is centered side to side.) Then both are tightened to their tension. Then the lower stays are adjusted so that the mast is "in column" that is, straight, with no bend side to side, or fore and aft. (Racing rigs may have adjustable backstays to adjust sail shape, but I have never seen this on and h-27. Anyway, the initial set-up should be in column, then adjusted with the the backstay for shaping while under way.) Once the mast is in column, the lower stays are tightened to their tension. Then, it's around one more time to get the tensions right, always tightening opposing stays the same number of turns, and then measuring. That's it. Our mast comes down each year, so I'm getting pretty good at this. It's true that there is no official number for the tension. But the minimum condition is that there is never any sag of the leeward shrouds under any sailing conditions. Although the tension on the downwind stays will decrease, this should never loosen them enough to sag - that's a danger to the rig.
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Tim L.
To say it differently....
For the 1st sentence of the 2nd paragraph substitute: "Since its almost impossible to bend the H30's tree trunk spar particularly since with a single spreader mast head rig you only have the forward shrouds to pull against, then I have found raking the mast instead to be of questionable value." This rig is not intended to be raked or bent in my opinion. The only reason the web site manual might come down is to make room for other pictures; it will probably stay up until I get around to selling my much beloved 1981 Hunter 30.
For the 1st sentence of the 2nd paragraph substitute: "Since its almost impossible to bend the H30's tree trunk spar particularly since with a single spreader mast head rig you only have the forward shrouds to pull against, then I have found raking the mast instead to be of questionable value." This rig is not intended to be raked or bent in my opinion. The only reason the web site manual might come down is to make room for other pictures; it will probably stay up until I get around to selling my much beloved 1981 Hunter 30.
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David Foster
Advantages of tree trunks
Tim, I mentioned the "high cross section" (tree trunk) of the Cherubini masts in my earlier post. It's true that this means the bending control is effectively lost, and there is a small effect on final stability (accounted for in the hull/keel design, I'm sure.) But there are some big advantages: The mast is very reliable under any load. The rig is simple to tune - compare my procedure with the B&R procedure, or the procedure for double or triple spreader bendy rigs on modern racing yachts. The weight aloft gives a high moment of inertia - the boat will resist a fast push (from a broadside wave) to roll it much better that the same hull with a lighter mast. All of these characteristics add to the excellent cruising reputation of these boats. I'll take the tree trunk! David Lady Lillie '77 h27
Tim, I mentioned the "high cross section" (tree trunk) of the Cherubini masts in my earlier post. It's true that this means the bending control is effectively lost, and there is a small effect on final stability (accounted for in the hull/keel design, I'm sure.) But there are some big advantages: The mast is very reliable under any load. The rig is simple to tune - compare my procedure with the B&R procedure, or the procedure for double or triple spreader bendy rigs on modern racing yachts. The weight aloft gives a high moment of inertia - the boat will resist a fast push (from a broadside wave) to roll it much better that the same hull with a lighter mast. All of these characteristics add to the excellent cruising reputation of these boats. I'll take the tree trunk! David Lady Lillie '77 h27
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