Hello, all. I am a complete novice at sailing (as in I have never sailed but want to learn), and I'm looking at an h170. I have a 4-yr.old, so I want a very stable boat, but also one that I can grow with as a sailor. I'll be sailing Percy Priest and Old Hickory Lakes in Nashville and maybe Lake Barkley/KY Lake in Land Between the Lakes in KY. Also, I may be sailing solo quite a bit, as my wife is not interested in sailing. Is the h170 the boat for me? Thanks. Michael Willey
h170 and Novice Sailor
- Thread starter mbwilley
- Start date
- Status
More Info
define "very stable boat". If you are looking for something that you can sit on the seat, hold an adult beverage and relax - my vote would be no on the H170. If it can be something that you are willing to be mobile ballast, the H170 is a fun little boat. In 10+ knots I think solo would be a hand full, and too much motion for a little one. I think if you did get the H170, get it with out the Spinnaker kit. When you grow into it you can add it on later. If you can, find a local rental or someone on this list for a test ride. I would recommend the boat, but it sounds like you are looking for a large boat with a small water line. Just my opinion, hopefully others will chime in.
define "very stable boat". If you are looking for something that you can sit on the seat, hold an adult beverage and relax - my vote would be no on the H170. If it can be something that you are willing to be mobile ballast, the H170 is a fun little boat. In 10+ knots I think solo would be a hand full, and too much motion for a little one. I think if you did get the H170, get it with out the Spinnaker kit. When you grow into it you can add it on later. If you can, find a local rental or someone on this list for a test ride. I would recommend the boat, but it sounds like you are looking for a large boat with a small water line. Just my opinion, hopefully others will chime in.
More Info
John, Thanks for your response. I guess by "very stable," I mean a boat that I won't be capsizing every five minutes. For example, among the boats I've been looking at was a Buccaneer 18, and I made a similar post to the Bucc 18 forum and one Bucc owner replied privately that he, like me, had wanted a boat to take his kids out on the lakes. He bought a Bucc and has found that it is very easy to capsize and now owns a boat that he can't let his kids into until he learns to handle the Bucc. I just don't want that to happen to me. Thanks again. Michael
John, Thanks for your response. I guess by "very stable," I mean a boat that I won't be capsizing every five minutes. For example, among the boats I've been looking at was a Buccaneer 18, and I made a similar post to the Bucc 18 forum and one Bucc owner replied privately that he, like me, had wanted a boat to take his kids out on the lakes. He bought a Bucc and has found that it is very easy to capsize and now owns a boat that he can't let his kids into until he learns to handle the Bucc. I just don't want that to happen to me. Thanks again. Michael
Rental First
Michael, I agree with John whole heartedly. Make an effort to locate these boats nearby for rental if at all possible. Schedule a lesson with someone while you are at it. The investment of time and money will be well worth prior to making a purchase. There are plenty of different type boats out there. Finding the one for you should be as much fun as buying and learning. Add a few lessons and you will be well on your way. Our first sailboat was a 16 foot Prindle catamaran. You want to talk about fun? I hear the 170 is a great fun boat, but you need to try before you buy. I would think that a good dealer would cooperate and sponsor a learn to sail / purchase program. Maybe something where the dealer would credit all or part of your rental fees toward the purchase, should you decide to buy. Also, you may be able to network and find someone that already sails and owns a boat like you are proposing to buy. Lots of people look for crew or just companionship by giving another a chance to share their sailing experience. Just my slant, Mike D
Michael, I agree with John whole heartedly. Make an effort to locate these boats nearby for rental if at all possible. Schedule a lesson with someone while you are at it. The investment of time and money will be well worth prior to making a purchase. There are plenty of different type boats out there. Finding the one for you should be as much fun as buying and learning. Add a few lessons and you will be well on your way. Our first sailboat was a 16 foot Prindle catamaran. You want to talk about fun? I hear the 170 is a great fun boat, but you need to try before you buy. I would think that a good dealer would cooperate and sponsor a learn to sail / purchase program. Maybe something where the dealer would credit all or part of your rental fees toward the purchase, should you decide to buy. Also, you may be able to network and find someone that already sails and owns a boat like you are proposing to buy. Lots of people look for crew or just companionship by giving another a chance to share their sailing experience. Just my slant, Mike D
For What Its Worth
Michael, I really "learned" to sail in the 170. I have sailed others, but I really became good in the 170. Its drawbacks though are also its strong points (weird but try to follow me). The boat can be somewhat touchy, but to more experienced people they would call this responsive. It is a plus I would say. You will notice this when you get hit with a gust, you will accelerate immediately and heel more. Not a problem, that's sailing. If you get hit with a bigger gust than you expect, your boat will heel to the point that it self corrects and will come to rest head to wind (it will round up). Check out the archives as I think that I wrote a post explaining why this happens several months ago. Again this is good (you didn't capsize), but if you are not expecting this it scares the bejesis out of the skipper and crew. My six year old son was with me one day when I did this and he has never forgotten this...seriously. As for correcting from a capsize..I have no experience, I have not capsized yet. With the width of the boat, I would expect that it will turtle. Check out the archives as this has been talked to death and back. Also, note the prevention measures to keep from turtling following a capsize (Hobie Float, etc). Additionally, the 170 responds to almost no wind at all. This is always good but it makes the boat very touchy in winds 15+, so reef and carry on. The hull design also makes the boat very responsive (tippy?)to crew positioning. I was out last summer with a friend of mine and immediately after pushing off from the dock while not yet under sail, while I was doing something under the boom, he stepped up onto the seat. We rolled over to about 45 degrees and came the closest I have yet to capsizing. Now I weigh 270 and he ways about 175. That got my heart going. I like the boat and would buy it again if the clock was turned back. All boats have their strengths and weaknesses. I will easily sacrifice what some call stablity for performance. I would rather be driving a sports car than a tank. The boat is easy to rig and drive single handed. It looks good and sails well. The price you pay for this type of performance from a day sailer may be that of unjustly calling it touchy or unstable. Hope this helps. Godspeed, Rusty
Michael, I really "learned" to sail in the 170. I have sailed others, but I really became good in the 170. Its drawbacks though are also its strong points (weird but try to follow me). The boat can be somewhat touchy, but to more experienced people they would call this responsive. It is a plus I would say. You will notice this when you get hit with a gust, you will accelerate immediately and heel more. Not a problem, that's sailing. If you get hit with a bigger gust than you expect, your boat will heel to the point that it self corrects and will come to rest head to wind (it will round up). Check out the archives as I think that I wrote a post explaining why this happens several months ago. Again this is good (you didn't capsize), but if you are not expecting this it scares the bejesis out of the skipper and crew. My six year old son was with me one day when I did this and he has never forgotten this...seriously. As for correcting from a capsize..I have no experience, I have not capsized yet. With the width of the boat, I would expect that it will turtle. Check out the archives as this has been talked to death and back. Also, note the prevention measures to keep from turtling following a capsize (Hobie Float, etc). Additionally, the 170 responds to almost no wind at all. This is always good but it makes the boat very touchy in winds 15+, so reef and carry on. The hull design also makes the boat very responsive (tippy?)to crew positioning. I was out last summer with a friend of mine and immediately after pushing off from the dock while not yet under sail, while I was doing something under the boom, he stepped up onto the seat. We rolled over to about 45 degrees and came the closest I have yet to capsizing. Now I weigh 270 and he ways about 175. That got my heart going. I like the boat and would buy it again if the clock was turned back. All boats have their strengths and weaknesses. I will easily sacrifice what some call stablity for performance. I would rather be driving a sports car than a tank. The boat is easy to rig and drive single handed. It looks good and sails well. The price you pay for this type of performance from a day sailer may be that of unjustly calling it touchy or unstable. Hope this helps. Godspeed, Rusty
h170/Novice Sailor advice
Hi Michael, Congratulations on finding this fine website and for asking good questions. I think part of the answer to your question about whether the 170 would be a great first-boat lies in the usually prevailing wind conditions at P Priest and Land Between the Lakes. I used to live in BNA and can't recall how strong the avg winds blow day to day, month to month, but I'll say from experiences with my 170, that she's a very energetic, exciting and often adrenaline inducing boat in a breeze. Sudden puffs can cause many a 170 sailor to literally scramble to put her tiller upwind, or spill the mainsail and jib. "For her size" (and appearance --wide, deep freeboard) the 170 is a very responsive boat, and WILL capsize if mistakes are made on a heavy day (or if the wind speed increases gradually, suddenly or undetectedly). I LOVE my 170, and would not trade it, but some novice sailors might find their hands more than full (running main and jib singlehanded) in conditions that are even slightly more than the hull can stably handle. I'd wholeheartedly recommend you use mainsail alone for several outtings when/if you first sail the boat. Singlehanding in breeze above 15, I furl up the jib and run main alone. If the wind climbs above 20, I reef the mainsail-- a reduction in power of 20% or so?? So what I'm saying is, the 170's sailplan is (gulp) too powerful for the 170's hull, at times. She's a gorgeous, fun, very responsive and intriguing boat (everyone at the boat ramp comes over and asks about this boat), but she'll make you respect all that sail, and her efficiency at converting that lift to forward motion, and wasteful (and unease-inducing) heel. Another great attribute of the 170 is that her weather helm is almost unresistable if she heels up too hard or her sails are overpowering her too much. Release the tiller just a little bit, and the boat will automatically round up into the wind-- this is a safe move so long as you're real 'close to the wind'. I am going to go out on a limb and also recommend that you look at other daysailers such as the Catalina 16.5 (I think one model features a shallow fixed (ballasted) keel) or a Flying Scot. These are also very roomy like the 170 (not as pretty or easy to swim from though, etc.), but are far less responsive (read: tippy). I sail Lasers too, so I'm used to going in the drink and have no fear of it, but I just wanted to share upfront that you (and presumeably your son) might end up taking some impromptu dips while learning the manners of the 170. I guess part of my acute awareness re: tippyness of my 170 is that I have her outfitted with a four stroke outboard, groundtackle, handheld VHF radio etc., and would prefer not to dip the above items! Anyway, great luck to you in your sailing endevours and we're glad you're joining the sailing ranks. More questions about personal impressions of the boat?, just email me. Also, if you're ever in central FL, email me and I'll literally take you along on a sail in our boat. MG Alachua, FL
Hi Michael, Congratulations on finding this fine website and for asking good questions. I think part of the answer to your question about whether the 170 would be a great first-boat lies in the usually prevailing wind conditions at P Priest and Land Between the Lakes. I used to live in BNA and can't recall how strong the avg winds blow day to day, month to month, but I'll say from experiences with my 170, that she's a very energetic, exciting and often adrenaline inducing boat in a breeze. Sudden puffs can cause many a 170 sailor to literally scramble to put her tiller upwind, or spill the mainsail and jib. "For her size" (and appearance --wide, deep freeboard) the 170 is a very responsive boat, and WILL capsize if mistakes are made on a heavy day (or if the wind speed increases gradually, suddenly or undetectedly). I LOVE my 170, and would not trade it, but some novice sailors might find their hands more than full (running main and jib singlehanded) in conditions that are even slightly more than the hull can stably handle. I'd wholeheartedly recommend you use mainsail alone for several outtings when/if you first sail the boat. Singlehanding in breeze above 15, I furl up the jib and run main alone. If the wind climbs above 20, I reef the mainsail-- a reduction in power of 20% or so?? So what I'm saying is, the 170's sailplan is (gulp) too powerful for the 170's hull, at times. She's a gorgeous, fun, very responsive and intriguing boat (everyone at the boat ramp comes over and asks about this boat), but she'll make you respect all that sail, and her efficiency at converting that lift to forward motion, and wasteful (and unease-inducing) heel. Another great attribute of the 170 is that her weather helm is almost unresistable if she heels up too hard or her sails are overpowering her too much. Release the tiller just a little bit, and the boat will automatically round up into the wind-- this is a safe move so long as you're real 'close to the wind'. I am going to go out on a limb and also recommend that you look at other daysailers such as the Catalina 16.5 (I think one model features a shallow fixed (ballasted) keel) or a Flying Scot. These are also very roomy like the 170 (not as pretty or easy to swim from though, etc.), but are far less responsive (read: tippy). I sail Lasers too, so I'm used to going in the drink and have no fear of it, but I just wanted to share upfront that you (and presumeably your son) might end up taking some impromptu dips while learning the manners of the 170. I guess part of my acute awareness re: tippyness of my 170 is that I have her outfitted with a four stroke outboard, groundtackle, handheld VHF radio etc., and would prefer not to dip the above items! Anyway, great luck to you in your sailing endevours and we're glad you're joining the sailing ranks. More questions about personal impressions of the boat?, just email me. Also, if you're ever in central FL, email me and I'll literally take you along on a sail in our boat. MG Alachua, FL
- Status