H-30 Mast Base / Boom Vang

[newage1461]

Well, my first year with my 81 H-30 is officially done, and am hoping to have a second year but the lake Michigan water levels may stop that..

So mean while the work on the boat continues. Somehow this boar has made it 32 years without a boom vang. And it's not like it doesn't need it! Now there are not a lot of options on rigging a vang. It almost has to attach to the mast base stand. I was planning on using a welded SS eye bolt, but looking at it this AM I think it would be pretty difficult to get a nut on the bolt as the openings are very small. Now I'm thinking about drilling and tapping a hole in the rear of the base, then screwing in the eye bolt.

Has anyone already done this, and if so do you have any tips before I start?

#2 . There doesn't appear to be any way for water to drain out once it gets inside the mast base, except to work it's way through the hole used by the wiring, then into the post area. I was thinking of having someone mill one or two grooves in the bottom plate so the water has a fighting chance to drain out. Has anyone already this? Or is there a better way ??

Thanks

 

[Nelsonhow]

On my 1983H-30 with a Kenyon rig and internal halyards I have a weep hole from the center of the mast base between the port and starboard halyard sheaves (facing aft). I keep it open with a wire during the season.

I moved the electrical connections that used or feed into the cabin thought the center of the mast base (the antenna and mast lights ) so they now exist the channel in the base at the aft bottom of the mast and are fed into an inverted P trap pipe alongside the mast. Easy to connect wires at the start and end of the season and easy to maintain connection rooms.

 

[RAD88]

Boom Vang

You probably do need a boom vang. I am guessing by the picture that your mast is down. If it is down I would attach a boom vang to the base of the mast itself. That way you can through bolt it with nylon locking nuts or nylocs.
I installed a boom kicker with the boom vang so I have no need for a topping lift anymore.

ps- very strange looking pic. Hard to tell what it actually is.

 

[newage1461]

More info.

The base stands about 6" high which makes the angle of the vang so low that I think it would loose effectiveness. I attached pic's of the base from a front and port side view.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

Mounting mast-base vang attachment point.

The easiest way to do this is to pull the pin at the base of the mast that holds it to the step casting/assembly and install a (wide) boom bail there. This has been done for ages and satisfies the requirement that the boom vang always attach to the centerline (otherwise it is known as a preventer; and it will prevent more than maybe you'd like it to!).

The other way-- provided the mast is off the boat-- is to acquire a halyard-organizer plate. The one I got for Diana is from Garhauer (the only bit of their hardware on the boat). It cost about $33.00. It is heavy stainless and has 14 holes around it for attaching halyard deck blocks. I do not use all of these holes; they are there to provide options. I have two jibs to one side, two mains to the other, the spinnaker and pole lift forward and the downhaul, jiffy-reef line and vang aft.

Here is the link for the plate I used. --http://garhauermarine.com/catalog_process.cfm?cid=68

There are other sizes; for my H25 I used the first one. For the mast step itself one could remove and replace it over the plate (insulate well using electrical tape!). Rig-Rite want something over $250 to make a casting to order for the old Kenyon '3625' (oval) spar. I chose to make my own out of aluminum.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

Location of vang.

Newage, you worried that the angle of the vang would be too low (flat?) for it to do much good as a vang. Just how high is the bail or deck attachment and how far aft is the point on the boom?

The optimum angle at which to pull (at an angle at all) is 45 degrees or whatever lies perpendicular to the existing angle between boom and mast. One can pull at angles lower than 45 degrees; it just takes more mechanical advantage. Trying to apply too much force here (such as with a hydraulic system) is likely to break something.

The other caveat I would pose here is about the lunacy of people (including well-known boatbuilders whose boats are actually represented in the SailboatOwners.com pages) installing a vang so far forward on the boom that it effectively does nothing. This is common with mid-boom sheeting setups. I have seen some modern production boats with the sheetline set at less than 50% of the boom's length aft of the mast-- completely ineffective-- and then a vang attached somewhere forward of that. Such a system requires incredible power with such poor angles. And what controls the tail end of the boom?

Your ideal setup should be to have the downhaul at the very forward edge of the boom along the mast, the sheetline at the very end of the boom where there is the most leverages, and the vang about halfway back-- not guided by the sail's area as much as by the length of the boom, where the mechanical advantage is most available. Anything other than this setup will incur a penalty in mechanical advantage and the need for more tackle or force than would be theoretically necessary.a

 

[Steve Dion]

If you decide you want a rigid vang, Garhauer will make a plate that will fit around that base.

Just send the photo to Garhauer. They also will want you trace a pattern of the shape.

 

[py26129]

If you want to do a traditional vang (i.e. not rigid) you can always run a line around the mast base with loops on both ends. feed one end of the line through one fo the loops so that it tightens itself around the mast base like a noose. Attach the vang to the end that has gone though the loop and you're done.

This setup worked like a charm for 12 years on my previous boat, It's cheap and best of all no holes to drill.

Matt

 

[Dalliance]

Garhauer on 1982 H30

I put a Garhauer rigid boom vang on my H30 three years ago -- model #RV20-1 SL. Very satisfied. They custom make the fittings for your mast and boom. As you can see from the photos, mine is attached to the bottom end of the mast; not the mast base. Just not enough room on the base between the halyard sheaves and it would be too tight to the deck. Since the Kenyon spars are pretty thick walled, the bolts are drilled and tapped. I did have to file down the ends of the bottom two bolts so they don't catch on the portion of the base that sleeves up into the mast. The angle to the boom is roughly 30 degrees. Maybe less than optimum, but any inefficiency of angle is made up for by the vang purchase and the strength of the spring inside.
As for mast base drainage, it's really through the open area under the internal halyard sheaves. I have a big glob of sealant around the PVC conduit and wires where they pass through the deck into the mast base to keep water from taking that route into the cabin.

 

[newage1461]

As I recalled from the last time I saw it with the mast up, if I mounted a bale on the mast itself, in order to get near 45 degrees on the vang it would only be about 24 - 30" out on the boom.

I was figuring on mounting an eye bolt as low as I can on the base, then attaching the vang there. But the way things are going on Lake Michigan, I'll be lucky to even be able to get the boat in the water this year. Our club has th decide on spending $175k + for dredging this spring.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

For Newage1461--

There's nothing wrong with making a little mousehole at the after end of the mast to let water out of the maststep. In fact you should have it. Use a jigsaw or Dremel tool. A horseshoe hole about 3/8" is fine.

If you can only get a vang out to 24-30" of the boom, then your boom is probably only that high off the deck. With a fixed gooseneck, a vang won't be of much help then. Consider running a preventer system down to the rails. Most oceangoing singlehanders have this. It will look like a second mainsheet, A-frame style, with a block on the boom (about 40% of the way from your gooseneck to the mainsheet) and two legs down to blocks at the rails and leading aft. You can add whatever purchase is necessary, though most people run them to the winches. This provides the safety factor, as you never want to get caught going about or, worse, jibing, with the preventer at tension. On a port tack your portside jib winch is free; so use it for the preventer which you will have to throw off before going around, and you won't run the risk of bending the boom (which happens more often than we'd care to think).

The great benefit of a preventer is not only that it prevents the broaching jibe (the singlehanders' rationale for it) but that it allows you to pull down on the boom where the boom happens to be, over the rail. That's the whole key to a vang-- pulling down, not forward.

Proponents of the rigid vang will cite at least three major benefits:
1. It holds up the boom, so, no topping lift;
2. It has the strength to take on adverse leverage-- your 24-30 inches (at 45 degrees) can be extended to twice that and the mechanical advantage of the hydraulic or structural rigid vang will handle it);
3. It requires no attention or maintenance under sail.

I think the rigid vang precludes precise sail control and adds complexity and cost. But it's the last 'benefit' I find most abhorrent. I don't think any sailing time can ever be considered no-maintenance, even for the casual family cruiser; but maybe that's because of how I grew up. I am constantly striving for more speed, more pointing to windward, more performance, all the time. It's what I find fun about sailing. I'm not overly competitive-- maybe it's the engineer in me looking for the highest achievable degree of efficiency at the least cost. My dad used to say, 'Sailing is the ultimate free ride. But it's only free if we work for it' (this from a Depression baby, of course).

Because of this I have a sliding gooseneck. A rigid vang would prohibit this. Now when I reef I can take up the reduced sail and then pull down on the downhaul rather than up on the halyard. The reefed sail sits better (FAR better than an in-mast furling one would) and the center of effort is lower, thus less heel and less boat motion in reefing conditions. Also, I can keep the mainsail board-flat when that's called for because I have all three points-- sheet, vang and downhaul-- to pull down on the boom with.

Original Hunter sailmaker John Eggers was built like a football player and used to 'test' all new mainsails by hauling down so tightly on everything that you'd think it was all going to disintegrate simulataneously. But he'd have the mainsail flat like a piece of plywood. Before you think this is ineffective or incorrect, consider that the highest-speed, highest-tech sailing craft in the world today use rigid wing sails. They don't yield-- when asked to, they remain flat and all that's left is for the boat to move... faster. Hm.

In any case it's your boat and I suggest you take your own counsel as to how you'll be using it and what kind of control or conpromises you're willing to have.

* * *

 

[tomgrigsby]

I added a vang and riveted a yoke to the base of the mast. The yoke ended up pulling out from the base. I think I did a lousy job of rivetting it on so I'm going to try it again. I don't have a mast base plate or anything else available for attaching the vang at the mast. From what I've read here, the distance out on the boom is possibly too short as well, but there it is.

 

[DianaOfBurlington]

Tom's arrangement is probably the easiest, simplest and cheapest way to go.

The best way is always the way you'll actually do to keep yourself going sailing.

 

[newage1461]

I've been waiting to get out to the club to get some measurements on the mast, but the snow is piles around it too high. It may be a moot point if Lake Michigan doesn't come up at least a foot before May. If not it will live on the trailer this summer. ( at least I can get the bottom refinished at my leasure )

 

[fiestaMojo]

boom vang mounting

hi all, don't mean to hijack the thread, but this seemed an appropriate place. . . I have a 1981 33 that did not have a boom vang when I bought her, I plan to install a traditional rope vang this spring , and was thinking the spars are basically the same on both the 30 and 33. . . is there a trick to mounting a bail on the boom (with the internal stuff)? I would think thru-bolting would be best, but I don't know how things are set up inside the boom. . . thanks

 

[Dalliance]

My '82 H30 has two reef lines and an outhaul that run forward inside the boom. The outhaul is wire at the car end and there is a block for added purchase. Can't recall the exact outhaul setup off hand, but given that I keep discovering that my '82 is significantly different from other years of the same model and that the previous owner(s) may have made changes, I would suggest that you take the boom off, remove the fitting at mast end, and take a look inside.