Good propane gear

[sully75]

Hello,

This is my first post here...followed one of Maine Sail's links.

My propane system is quite subpar. Beyond subpar, really. And I know par is subpar to begin with.

I found Maine Sail's recommendation for a solenoid:
http://www.scrubbercity.com/AFC_High_Pressure_Multipurpose_Shutt_Off_Valve_151_p/50010.htm

But I was wondering if there are other standard recomendations for pressure gauges, sniffer, switch, regulators, hosing, joints, etc. I'll be doing this myself, so any help would be appreciated. This is for a 28' simple sailboat. Currently will have a 2 burner propane stove top, may add a cabin heater someday (currently has a tiny tot woodstove). I also have a Magma grill on the rail and will be using a 1 burner gimballed Balmar Sea Cook Stove for cooking underway, but will be using camping gas for both of these, most likely.

And I pray Maine Sail will do an article on propane sometime soon!

Thanks!
Paul

 

[Delezynski]

Hi Paul,

I don't have any “specific” things to say, but I can add a bit on our experiences. We run one propane tank at a time on our Nor'Sea 27. It's mounted on the aft rail in a SS fender holder with a Sunbrella cover to keep it out of the weather. You can see a lot of photos on our web pages.

I installed a two burner Force 10 2 burner stove/oven. You can see a step-by-step on our page at; http://www.svguenevere.com/prep/proj/stove/

Highlights are that I used 1 (one) hose from the tank system to the stove. I made sure it was secure at both ends with soapy water! I installed a warning system with the solenoid cut off.
Disclosure here, after about a year or so I finally disconnected the detector. I was getting so many false alarms it was driving us crazy. Each time it went off I would use a bilge blower to clear it, but we were getting 10+ alarms a day! AND there was NO leaks!!!

What we do is to select on for the solenoid, then on for the stove burner or oven and make sure it's light. When finished, we FIRST turn off the solenoid and wait for the flame to go out. Then turn off the burner.

During using the system full time from June 03 to around 09 we had one solenoid fail. It failed in the off position. So, if you are heading out, you might consider taking a spare. If going to Mexico, don't get spares in the US! We found that propane is used EVERY WHERE down there and spare parts were dirt cheap, for the SAME part numbers!!

I would suggest not using your propane for the heating the boat. KEEP that wood stove! But to make it more usable, you might try what I did. I now use an oil lamp in our fireplace. It works GREAT and lasts a LONG time without burning up a lot of gas!

You can see a short video I did on our fireplace on our YouTube page at;
http://youtu.be/OewEBeHRHyA
BUT..... Note, this video is in 3D, but you can turn that off by going to the bottom and clicking on "3D", then selecting off.

Hope this helps!

Greg

 

[NYSail]

I replaced my entire propane system last year. Bought the following:

Trident Marine LPG Supply Line #1014-3838-240
Trident Marine Regulator #1211-1402
Trident Solenoid #1300-7706.2

All when in pretty nicely and works as instructed.

Good Luck!

 

[CarlN]

When I updated my propane system four years ago I chose this unit from BEP:

http://www.bepmarine.com/home-mainmenu-8/product-401/600-gdl-gas-detector

It had two features that I liked and didn't find in other units:

-- After the solonoid opens, it uses a lower watt pulse to keep it open. This reduces power draw (alhtough I can't believe this is much power)

-- They claimed to have better sensors and smarter circuitry to monitor the sensor resulting in fewer false alarms and better accuracy - especially as the sensor element ages.

It's worked fine for four years. No false alarms problems. I did test it once with an unlit propane torch near the sensor to make sure it would go off.

 

[Sailvayu]

This may help

http://www.cruisingworld.com/how-to/living-aboard/maintaining-your-propane-system

 

[mitiempo]

I use a propane detector from Electro Systems. http://www.es-web.com/GS7-propane-detector.html
I have installed many for others as well. I have never had a false alarm and do not know of any false alarms from others. It has an auto shut off as any good propane detector does.

Easy to check any detector with a cigarette lighter that is not lit.

 

[Apex]

reading this thread with interest, as i have no propane locker currently: anyone add a locker? Sully how are you storing you tank?

 

[Delezynski]

reading this thread with interest, as i have no propane locker currently: anyone add a locker? Sully how are you storing you tank?

We use a SS fender holder on our aft rail......

Works GREAT, NO mods to the boat needed and keeps the gas way off of the boat. As I said in an older post, we cover the tank with a Sunbrella cover to keep it and the lines out of the sun.

You can see the Sunbrella covered tank (just) in the photo below....

Greg

 

[Maine Sail]

Some things to consider:

#1 All hose connections need to be made inside the propane locker. If no locker than propane gasses must not be able to get into the boat eg: what Greg has done...

#2 If adding a heater the hose and terminations must be run to the locker and all connections made inside the locker.

#3 Consider a propane sniffer than also breaks the solenoid. Test the sniffer bi-monthly with a butane lighter by just pressing the gas not the flame.

#4 I personally prefer a solenoid for each device rather than one for the manifold for two or more devices.. A positive shut off is required from the appliance area and the solenoid is the easiest way to go about this.

#5 You should have a means of shut off within reach of the cook stove without reaching over it in the event of a flame. If your DC panel is close than this can work.

#6 I prefer to see a bright red LED light indicating propane is on.

#7 The regulators and gauges from Trident are perfectly fine and will have factory made connections if you are not comfortable making them yourself.

#8 I prefer that solenoid because they are VERY reliable and can go in front of the regulator or after where most need to go after.. I have seen regulators rot out. No sense in having a shut off after the leaking regulator...

Below are some key points from ABYC A-1:

"1.7.2 Each appliance shall be served by a separate low pressure, i.e., 14 in. water column (3.5 kPa), regulated supply line that shall originate inside the cylinder locker or protective enclosure.

1.7.3 A readily accessible manual or electrically operated (e.g., solenoid) shut-off valve shall be installed in the low or high-pressure line at the fuel supply. See the requirements in

A-1.7.6.1 for valve location requirements.

1.7.3.1 The valve(s) or its control must be operable in the vicinity of the appliance(s) in the event of a fire at any appliance(s). If the cylinder shut-off valve is readily accessible from the vicinity of the appliance, the shut-off valve on the supply line is not required.

1.7.3.1.1 The valve or its control shall be operable without reaching over the top of any open flame appliance, e.g., cooking appliance burners.

1.8 LPG LOCKERS

1.8.1 Lockers used to contain LPG cylinders, cylinder valves, regulating equipment and safety devices shall be designed to minimize the likelihood of use as a gear storage locker and shall be

1.8.1.1 vapor tight to the hull interior, and

1.8.1.2 located above the waterline, and

1.8.1.3 constructed of, or lined with, corrosion resistant materials, and

1.8.1.4 shall open only from the top with a gasketed cover that shall latch tightly, and

1.8.1.5 shall be capable of being quickly and conveniently opened without tools.

1.8.2 Installation

1.8.2.1 LPG lockers shall be installed so that the locker opens only directly to the outside atmosphere, and

1.8.2.2 if a LPG locker is installed inside a boat locker, the LPG locker shall be located as high and as close to the boat locker’s opening as possible in order to comply with A-1.8.2.1.

1.8.3 When means of access to the LPG equipment locker or housing is open, the cylinder valves shall be capable of being conveniently and quickly operated, and the system pressure gauge dials shall be fully visible.

1.8.4 Lockers shall be vented at the bottom by a dedicated vent, with a minimum diameter of any component in the vent system that shall be not less than 1/2 inch (12.7mm) inside diameter.

1.9.2 LPG fuel supply line shall comply with the construction, performance, manufacturing and production test, and marking requirements of UL 21, LP Gas Hose
Locker vents shall be led outboard, without pockets, through the hull to a point lower than the locker bottom and above the waterline with the boat in the static floating position.
NOTE: See ABYC H-27 Seacocks, Thru-Hull Connections and Drain Plugs for requirements for seacocks.

1.8.6 Locker vent openings shall be located at least 20 inches (508 mm) from any hull opening to the boat interior.

1.8.7 LPG lockers shall not be used for storage of any equipment other than LPG cylinders, cylinder valves, regulating equipment, and LPG safety devices. See A-1.8.1.

1.8.8 Storage provisions for unconnected reserve cylinders, filled or empty, shall be the same as for the cylinder in use.

1.9.3 Flexible LPG supply line shall be equipped with permanently attached end fittings, such as a swaged sleeve or sleeve and threaded insert.

1.9.5 Fuel Line Location and Installation

1.9.5.1 Fuel supply lines shall be protected from physical damage, and

1.9.5.1.1 shall be accessible for inspection.

1.9.5.2 A flexible LPG fuel line section shall be used to allow free swing of gimbaled stoves.

1.9.5.3 Fuel supply lines shall be supported by clips or straps or other suitable means such as conduit or tray to prevent vibration damage, and

1.9.5.3.1 the clips or straps or other devices shall be corrosion resistant, and

1.9.5.3.2 shall be designed to prevent cutting, abrading, or damage to the lines, and

1.9.5.3.3 shall be galvanically compatible with fuel supply line material.

1.9.5.4 Fuel supply lines shall be protected by close fitting grommets, sleeves, or sealant of non-abrasive material wherever they pass through decks or watertight bulkheads, and the method used shall be watertight.

1.9.5.5 Fuel supply lines passing through bulkheads that need not be watertight shall be installed so that the bulkheads will not cut, abrade, or damage the line.

1.9.5.6 Fuel supply lines shall be continuous lengths of tubing, piping, or hose from the regulating device, solenoid valve, or leak detector to the appliance, or to the flexible section at the appliance."




Be SAFE!

 

[sully75]

Thanks all.

Mainesail, that solenoid also seems to be much cheaper than the competition. I'd read somewhere about the danger of a leak when going downwind with the tanks on the rail as Greg has. It seemed pretty remote but would mounting them on the rail pass muster for you? I was thinking if you put them under full protective covers, you could vent to a hose out the bottom and let that pass below the deckline and be in pretty good shape.

Currently the tank is mounted in the front of the cockpit well under a grating. Not good at all. I'd have to buy a new tanks to mount them on the rail, but it's a small boat, I'd be happy to have the space back in the cockpit.

It's a 27' boat with a small cabin. I'm not totally sure if I need an (expensive) sniffer or not). I lean towards yes, but also my nose tends to be pretty close to where the gas is. I suppose it could gas me overnight, leading to: yes, I need one.

 

[sully75]

So I just ordered two of the AFC 151 (wanted a spare).

Would this work as a sniffer and a control panel?
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|135|2290081|2276256&id=731259

Still not sure if I need a sniffer on a 28.5 boat?

 

[sully75]

Anyone?

 

[mitiempo]

Yes, the Trident is a good choice.

If you have propane on board you need a sniffer - on any boat. Size of the boat has nothing to do with it.

 

[sully75]

Thanks. Much appreciated.

 

[sully75]

Ok so I'm trying to piece all this stuff together. Kind of confused by the two different thread sizes.

Laying things out the other day I have
-tank
-Fireboy pressure gauge
-fireboy pressure regulator
-AFC 151 solenoid

I was sort of thinking that I'd put the solenoid directly after the tank, or right after the pressure gauge, but before the regulator. The pressure gauge and regulator are screwed together on arrival though. Should I unscrew them and put the solenoid in between? Or leave it like I have it?

I'm concerned that this whole rig is way too long. Unfortunately it's not going to be in a locker this year. Just can't get it together and too many things to do. So it will be on the stern near the rail and relatively well protected but it's still pretty ungainly. So I'm wondering if I should take a hose from the tank and then mount the assembly on the rail or somewhere on the stern so it's out of harms way? But that adds another hose/connection.

Also I guess I will get a double male connection to go from the regulator or solenoid to the hose?

Thanks!

 

[mitiempo]

I would install the solenoid as the first item after the tank - assuming a high pressure one is used. Then the reg and pressure gauge. There is very often a pigtail installed between the tank and the other items so they can be installed on the tank wall. You need that flexibility to easily remove the tank for filling.