Well, 3 of 'em are still good, but the steel channel backing plate is pretty well gone. I suspect from that and from the condition of the keel itself that this boat never had zincs on it. I am going to try drilling thru the hull to let the water out- just kidding- about 6 in. into the cast iron, tapping the holes out, and cranking in some all-thread, then make new backing plates and cinch it all up. If anyone has tried this fix, I would sure appreciate hearing from you. If not, I'll let you guys know how it comes out. Nice chatting with yawl; JL
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J
jim levitt
Well, 3 of 'em are still good, but the steel channel backing plate is pretty well gone. I suspect from that and from the condition of the keel itself that this boat never had zincs on it. I am going to try drilling thru the hull to let the water out- just kidding- about 6 in. into the cast iron, tapping the holes out, and cranking in some all-thread, then make new backing plates and cinch it all up. If anyone has tried this fix, I would sure appreciate hearing from you. If not, I'll let you guys know how it comes out. Nice chatting with yawl; JL
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Bentley
Not so good old bolts.
I saw something in your post that sent up a little red flag. In the Columbia 30, the bolts (studs) were originally epoxied into place. If there has been the beginnings of a failure there, the all-thread will not have anything good to “hang” onto. It might be a good idea to try some solvent like gamma-butyrolactone in there to be certain that you are only tapping into steel. (MEK, Ether, Mineral Spirits, Touline, and there ilk won’t have much affect on cured epoxy.) I’m not so sure that tapping is a good idea for two reasons: 1.) The keel is a steel-lead composite and does not have the same strength characteristics as steel. 2.) Because, the holes were originally oversized to allow for positioning of the studs while they were being epoxied into place. A high sheer strength epoxy might be a better way to go. 3M has some good folks to suggest a product. My Owner’s Manual has information regarding Keel-Hull attachment. I would be willing to photocopy and mail you a few pages. I might even have the relevant section scanned in already. I'm sorta’ in a similar situation. The bolts (studs) in Aquila (a Columbia 30) were terribly rusted and had actually stretched a-little. You could actually see it in the thread count in the space that had been between the nut and the keel. They were also of varying length. The shortest being less than four inches and penetrating the keel less than one inch. The studs were zinc plated mild steel threaded rod, and could not withstand the torque or tension without deforming. The studs had actually slipped and caused sheer failure in their mounting holes. The keel dropped about a half inch. This was due to water freezing in the hull-keel joint while on the hard. I am replacing the studs with six inch, stainless steel studs. The nuts and washers arell also stainless steel. I am looking for some stainless to replace the rusted base plates also. This is getting long so I will stop here. Good luck and be careful. Sincerely, Bentley Vaughan of the C-30 Aquila
I saw something in your post that sent up a little red flag. In the Columbia 30, the bolts (studs) were originally epoxied into place. If there has been the beginnings of a failure there, the all-thread will not have anything good to “hang” onto. It might be a good idea to try some solvent like gamma-butyrolactone in there to be certain that you are only tapping into steel. (MEK, Ether, Mineral Spirits, Touline, and there ilk won’t have much affect on cured epoxy.) I’m not so sure that tapping is a good idea for two reasons: 1.) The keel is a steel-lead composite and does not have the same strength characteristics as steel. 2.) Because, the holes were originally oversized to allow for positioning of the studs while they were being epoxied into place. A high sheer strength epoxy might be a better way to go. 3M has some good folks to suggest a product. My Owner’s Manual has information regarding Keel-Hull attachment. I would be willing to photocopy and mail you a few pages. I might even have the relevant section scanned in already. I'm sorta’ in a similar situation. The bolts (studs) in Aquila (a Columbia 30) were terribly rusted and had actually stretched a-little. You could actually see it in the thread count in the space that had been between the nut and the keel. They were also of varying length. The shortest being less than four inches and penetrating the keel less than one inch. The studs were zinc plated mild steel threaded rod, and could not withstand the torque or tension without deforming. The studs had actually slipped and caused sheer failure in their mounting holes. The keel dropped about a half inch. This was due to water freezing in the hull-keel joint while on the hard. I am replacing the studs with six inch, stainless steel studs. The nuts and washers arell also stainless steel. I am looking for some stainless to replace the rusted base plates also. This is getting long so I will stop here. Good luck and be careful. Sincerely, Bentley Vaughan of the C-30 Aquila
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Bentley
Not so good old bolts.
I saw something in your post that sent up a little red flag. In the Columbia 30, the bolts (studs) were originally epoxied into place. If there has been the beginnings of a failure there, the all-thread will not have anything good to “hang” onto. It might be a good idea to try some solvent like gamma-butyrolactone in there to be certain that you are only tapping into steel. (MEK, Ether, Mineral Spirits, Touline, and there ilk won’t have much affect on cured epoxy.) I’m not so sure that tapping is a good idea for two reasons: 1.) The keel is a steel-lead composite and does not have the same strength characteristics as steel. 2.) Because, the holes were originally oversized to allow for positioning of the studs while they were being epoxied into place. A high sheer strength epoxy might be a better way to go. 3M has some good folks to suggest a product. My Owner’s Manual has information regarding Keel-Hull attachment. I would be willing to photocopy and mail you a few pages. I might even have the relevant section scanned in already. I'm sorta’ in a similar situation. The bolts (studs) in Aquila (a Columbia 30) were terribly rusted and had actually stretched a-little. You could actually see it in the thread count in the space that had been between the nut and the keel. They were also of varying length. The shortest being less than four inches and penetrating the keel less than one inch. The studs were zinc plated mild steel threaded rod, and could not withstand the torque or tension without deforming. The studs had actually slipped and caused sheer failure in their mounting holes. The keel dropped about a half inch. This was due to water freezing in the hull-keel joint while on the hard. I am replacing the studs with six inch, stainless steel studs. The nuts and washers arell also stainless steel. I am looking for some stainless to replace the rusted base plates also. This is getting long so I will stop here. Good luck and be careful. Sincerely, Bentley Vaughan of the C-30 Aquila
I saw something in your post that sent up a little red flag. In the Columbia 30, the bolts (studs) were originally epoxied into place. If there has been the beginnings of a failure there, the all-thread will not have anything good to “hang” onto. It might be a good idea to try some solvent like gamma-butyrolactone in there to be certain that you are only tapping into steel. (MEK, Ether, Mineral Spirits, Touline, and there ilk won’t have much affect on cured epoxy.) I’m not so sure that tapping is a good idea for two reasons: 1.) The keel is a steel-lead composite and does not have the same strength characteristics as steel. 2.) Because, the holes were originally oversized to allow for positioning of the studs while they were being epoxied into place. A high sheer strength epoxy might be a better way to go. 3M has some good folks to suggest a product. My Owner’s Manual has information regarding Keel-Hull attachment. I would be willing to photocopy and mail you a few pages. I might even have the relevant section scanned in already. I'm sorta’ in a similar situation. The bolts (studs) in Aquila (a Columbia 30) were terribly rusted and had actually stretched a-little. You could actually see it in the thread count in the space that had been between the nut and the keel. They were also of varying length. The shortest being less than four inches and penetrating the keel less than one inch. The studs were zinc plated mild steel threaded rod, and could not withstand the torque or tension without deforming. The studs had actually slipped and caused sheer failure in their mounting holes. The keel dropped about a half inch. This was due to water freezing in the hull-keel joint while on the hard. I am replacing the studs with six inch, stainless steel studs. The nuts and washers arell also stainless steel. I am looking for some stainless to replace the rusted base plates also. This is getting long so I will stop here. Good luck and be careful. Sincerely, Bentley Vaughan of the C-30 Aquila
B
Bentley
Not so good old bolts.
I saw something in your post that sent up a little red flag. In the Columbia 30, the bolts (studs) were originally epoxied into place. If there has been the beginnings of a failure there, the all-thread will not have anything good to “hang” onto. It might be a good idea to try some solvent like gamma-butyrolactone in there to be certain that you are only tapping into steel. (MEK, Ether, Mineral Spirits, Touline, and there ilk won’t have much affect on cured epoxy.) I’m not so sure that tapping is a good idea for two reasons: 1.) The keel is a steel-lead composite and does not have the same strength characteristics as steel. 2.) Because, the holes were originally oversized to allow for positioning of the studs while they were being epoxied into place. A high sheer strength epoxy might be a better way to go. 3M has some good folks to suggest a product. My Owner’s Manual has information regarding Keel-Hull attachment. I would be willing to photocopy and mail you a few pages. I might even have the relevant section scanned in already. I'm sorta’ in a similar situation. The bolts (studs) in Aquila (a Columbia 30) were terribly rusted and had actually stretched a-little. You could actually see it in the thread count in the space that had been between the nut and the keel. They were also of varying length. The shortest being less than four inches and penetrating the keel less than one inch. The studs were zinc plated mild steel threaded rod, and could not withstand the torque or tension without deforming. The studs had actually slipped and caused sheer failure in their mounting holes. The keel dropped about a half inch. This was due to water freezing in the hull-keel joint while on the hard. I am replacing the studs with six inch, stainless steel studs. The nuts and washers arell also stainless steel. I am looking for some stainless to replace the rusted base plates also. This is getting long so I will stop here. Good luck and be careful. Sincerely, Bentley Vaughan of the C-30 Aquila
I saw something in your post that sent up a little red flag. In the Columbia 30, the bolts (studs) were originally epoxied into place. If there has been the beginnings of a failure there, the all-thread will not have anything good to “hang” onto. It might be a good idea to try some solvent like gamma-butyrolactone in there to be certain that you are only tapping into steel. (MEK, Ether, Mineral Spirits, Touline, and there ilk won’t have much affect on cured epoxy.) I’m not so sure that tapping is a good idea for two reasons: 1.) The keel is a steel-lead composite and does not have the same strength characteristics as steel. 2.) Because, the holes were originally oversized to allow for positioning of the studs while they were being epoxied into place. A high sheer strength epoxy might be a better way to go. 3M has some good folks to suggest a product. My Owner’s Manual has information regarding Keel-Hull attachment. I would be willing to photocopy and mail you a few pages. I might even have the relevant section scanned in already. I'm sorta’ in a similar situation. The bolts (studs) in Aquila (a Columbia 30) were terribly rusted and had actually stretched a-little. You could actually see it in the thread count in the space that had been between the nut and the keel. They were also of varying length. The shortest being less than four inches and penetrating the keel less than one inch. The studs were zinc plated mild steel threaded rod, and could not withstand the torque or tension without deforming. The studs had actually slipped and caused sheer failure in their mounting holes. The keel dropped about a half inch. This was due to water freezing in the hull-keel joint while on the hard. I am replacing the studs with six inch, stainless steel studs. The nuts and washers arell also stainless steel. I am looking for some stainless to replace the rusted base plates also. This is getting long so I will stop here. Good luck and be careful. Sincerely, Bentley Vaughan of the C-30 Aquila
B
Bentley
Not so good old bolts.
I saw something in your post that sent up a little red flag. In the Columbia 30, the bolts (studs) were originally epoxied into place. If there has been the beginnings of a failure there, the all-thread will not have anything good to “hang” onto. It might be a good idea to try some solvent like gamma-butyrolactone in there to be certain that you are only tapping into steel. (MEK, Ether, Mineral Spirits, Touline, and there ilk won’t have much affect on cured epoxy.) I’m not so sure that tapping is a good idea for two reasons: 1.) The keel is a steel-lead composite and does not have the same strength characteristics as steel. 2.) Because, the holes were originally oversized to allow for positioning of the studs while they were being epoxied into place. A high sheer strength epoxy might be a better way to go. 3M has some good folks to suggest a product. My Owner’s Manual has information regarding Keel-Hull attachment. I would be willing to photocopy and mail you a few pages. I might even have the relevant section scanned in already. I'm sorta’ in a similar situation. The bolts (studs) in Aquila (a Columbia 30) were terribly rusted and had actually stretched a-little. You could actually see it in the thread count in the space that had been between the nut and the keel. They were also of varying length. The shortest being less than four inches and penetrating the keel less than one inch. The studs were zinc plated mild steel threaded rod, and could not withstand the torque or tension without deforming. The studs had actually slipped and caused sheer failure in their mounting holes. The keel dropped about a half inch. This was due to water freezing in the hull-keel joint while on the hard. I am replacing the studs with six inch, stainless steel studs. The nuts and washers arell also stainless steel. I am looking for some stainless to replace the rusted base plates also. This is getting long so I will stop here. Good luck and be careful. Sincerely, Bentley Vaughan of the C-30 Aquila
I saw something in your post that sent up a little red flag. In the Columbia 30, the bolts (studs) were originally epoxied into place. If there has been the beginnings of a failure there, the all-thread will not have anything good to “hang” onto. It might be a good idea to try some solvent like gamma-butyrolactone in there to be certain that you are only tapping into steel. (MEK, Ether, Mineral Spirits, Touline, and there ilk won’t have much affect on cured epoxy.) I’m not so sure that tapping is a good idea for two reasons: 1.) The keel is a steel-lead composite and does not have the same strength characteristics as steel. 2.) Because, the holes were originally oversized to allow for positioning of the studs while they were being epoxied into place. A high sheer strength epoxy might be a better way to go. 3M has some good folks to suggest a product. My Owner’s Manual has information regarding Keel-Hull attachment. I would be willing to photocopy and mail you a few pages. I might even have the relevant section scanned in already. I'm sorta’ in a similar situation. The bolts (studs) in Aquila (a Columbia 30) were terribly rusted and had actually stretched a-little. You could actually see it in the thread count in the space that had been between the nut and the keel. They were also of varying length. The shortest being less than four inches and penetrating the keel less than one inch. The studs were zinc plated mild steel threaded rod, and could not withstand the torque or tension without deforming. The studs had actually slipped and caused sheer failure in their mounting holes. The keel dropped about a half inch. This was due to water freezing in the hull-keel joint while on the hard. I am replacing the studs with six inch, stainless steel studs. The nuts and washers arell also stainless steel. I am looking for some stainless to replace the rusted base plates also. This is getting long so I will stop here. Good luck and be careful. Sincerely, Bentley Vaughan of the C-30 Aquila
B
Bentley Vaughan
More Keel Bolt Stuff...
This is similar to what is in the C-30 manual: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/ see parts "2-2.1 KEEL INSTALLATION AND PROTECTIVE COATING" and the graphic: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/2-2.gif
This is similar to what is in the C-30 manual: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/ see parts "2-2.1 KEEL INSTALLATION AND PROTECTIVE COATING" and the graphic: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/2-2.gif
B
Bentley Vaughan
More Keel Bolt Stuff...
This is similar to what is in the C-30 manual: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/ see parts "2-2.1 KEEL INSTALLATION AND PROTECTIVE COATING" and the graphic: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/2-2.gif
This is similar to what is in the C-30 manual: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/ see parts "2-2.1 KEEL INSTALLATION AND PROTECTIVE COATING" and the graphic: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sailor570/2-2.gif
J
jim levitt
re;not so good old bolts
Read the reply from Ben, of the "Eagle", that's 'merican for "Aquila". On the strength of your experience, I will, of course, drill an exploratory hole to determine what damage may exist in the plywood/glass area above the keel, and will check the drill cuttings as I go into what I hope is still cast iron. I had to special order a drill and tap to reach the depth I want, but they have'nt arrived yet. I do not have the rescources to lift the boat and separate the keel, but that would be the way to go. The keel is now pretty well stripped down to bare rust, and it's gonna take a good gallon of filler to bring it back into shape. I'll keep you posted, thanx; JL
Read the reply from Ben, of the "Eagle", that's 'merican for "Aquila". On the strength of your experience, I will, of course, drill an exploratory hole to determine what damage may exist in the plywood/glass area above the keel, and will check the drill cuttings as I go into what I hope is still cast iron. I had to special order a drill and tap to reach the depth I want, but they have'nt arrived yet. I do not have the rescources to lift the boat and separate the keel, but that would be the way to go. The keel is now pretty well stripped down to bare rust, and it's gonna take a good gallon of filler to bring it back into shape. I'll keep you posted, thanx; JL
J
jim levitt
re;not so good old bolts
Read the reply from Ben, of the "Eagle", that's 'merican for "Aquila". On the strength of your experience, I will, of course, drill an exploratory hole to determine what damage may exist in the plywood/glass area above the keel, and will check the drill cuttings as I go into what I hope is still cast iron. I had to special order a drill and tap to reach the depth I want, but they have'nt arrived yet. I do not have the rescources to lift the boat and separate the keel, but that would be the way to go. The keel is now pretty well stripped down to bare rust, and it's gonna take a good gallon of filler to bring it back into shape. I'll keep you posted, thanx; JL
Read the reply from Ben, of the "Eagle", that's 'merican for "Aquila". On the strength of your experience, I will, of course, drill an exploratory hole to determine what damage may exist in the plywood/glass area above the keel, and will check the drill cuttings as I go into what I hope is still cast iron. I had to special order a drill and tap to reach the depth I want, but they have'nt arrived yet. I do not have the rescources to lift the boat and separate the keel, but that would be the way to go. The keel is now pretty well stripped down to bare rust, and it's gonna take a good gallon of filler to bring it back into shape. I'll keep you posted, thanx; JL
M
Mike Meer
Keel bolt fix
I have a good fix for keel bolts on the Columbia 30. My boat (at the time) E-Louise had nasty keel bolts and rotten u-channels. I was selling the boat and it wouldn’t pass any survey. The West coast boats had keels that were bonded to the hull and the local experts in San Diego claimed that even with all the bolts removed, the keel would hang on the boat forever. The surveyors didn’t seem to buy this so I went about a fix. Given that the keel would never come off the boat and all the bolts were epoxied to the hull, I sistered in four new U-channels between the existing bolts. I through drilled two 5/8” top grade steel carriage bolts for each channel. When the holes were drilled through the hull they actually penetrated the hull, the lead keel and the steel plate that backs up the keel. As you can imagine drilling the holes was a task, but I was able to have everything sealed up and back in the water in 48 hours! The parts cost about $100 and were found at my local yacht welders. The bolts were a bit trickier to find; they had two protruding wings instead of the usual square carriage end. They countersunk themselves until they hit steel and I sealed them with epoxy. I did this under the close scrutiny of Mark at Western Yacht Commissioning. E-mail me if you need more information on my fix! mikewmeer@hotmail.com
I have a good fix for keel bolts on the Columbia 30. My boat (at the time) E-Louise had nasty keel bolts and rotten u-channels. I was selling the boat and it wouldn’t pass any survey. The West coast boats had keels that were bonded to the hull and the local experts in San Diego claimed that even with all the bolts removed, the keel would hang on the boat forever. The surveyors didn’t seem to buy this so I went about a fix. Given that the keel would never come off the boat and all the bolts were epoxied to the hull, I sistered in four new U-channels between the existing bolts. I through drilled two 5/8” top grade steel carriage bolts for each channel. When the holes were drilled through the hull they actually penetrated the hull, the lead keel and the steel plate that backs up the keel. As you can imagine drilling the holes was a task, but I was able to have everything sealed up and back in the water in 48 hours! The parts cost about $100 and were found at my local yacht welders. The bolts were a bit trickier to find; they had two protruding wings instead of the usual square carriage end. They countersunk themselves until they hit steel and I sealed them with epoxy. I did this under the close scrutiny of Mark at Western Yacht Commissioning. E-mail me if you need more information on my fix! mikewmeer@hotmail.com
M
Mike Meer
Keel bolt fix
I have a good fix for keel bolts on the Columbia 30. My boat (at the time) E-Louise had nasty keel bolts and rotten u-channels. I was selling the boat and it wouldn’t pass any survey. The West coast boats had keels that were bonded to the hull and the local experts in San Diego claimed that even with all the bolts removed, the keel would hang on the boat forever. The surveyors didn’t seem to buy this so I went about a fix. Given that the keel would never come off the boat and all the bolts were epoxied to the hull, I sistered in four new U-channels between the existing bolts. I through drilled two 5/8” top grade steel carriage bolts for each channel. When the holes were drilled through the hull they actually penetrated the hull, the lead keel and the steel plate that backs up the keel. As you can imagine drilling the holes was a task, but I was able to have everything sealed up and back in the water in 48 hours! The parts cost about $100 and were found at my local yacht welders. The bolts were a bit trickier to find; they had two protruding wings instead of the usual square carriage end. They countersunk themselves until they hit steel and I sealed them with epoxy. I did this under the close scrutiny of Mark at Western Yacht Commissioning. E-mail me if you need more information on my fix! mikewmeer@hotmail.com
I have a good fix for keel bolts on the Columbia 30. My boat (at the time) E-Louise had nasty keel bolts and rotten u-channels. I was selling the boat and it wouldn’t pass any survey. The West coast boats had keels that were bonded to the hull and the local experts in San Diego claimed that even with all the bolts removed, the keel would hang on the boat forever. The surveyors didn’t seem to buy this so I went about a fix. Given that the keel would never come off the boat and all the bolts were epoxied to the hull, I sistered in four new U-channels between the existing bolts. I through drilled two 5/8” top grade steel carriage bolts for each channel. When the holes were drilled through the hull they actually penetrated the hull, the lead keel and the steel plate that backs up the keel. As you can imagine drilling the holes was a task, but I was able to have everything sealed up and back in the water in 48 hours! The parts cost about $100 and were found at my local yacht welders. The bolts were a bit trickier to find; they had two protruding wings instead of the usual square carriage end. They countersunk themselves until they hit steel and I sealed them with epoxy. I did this under the close scrutiny of Mark at Western Yacht Commissioning. E-mail me if you need more information on my fix! mikewmeer@hotmail.com
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