I'm rewiring my completely restored cal 34. I'm planning to sail it L.A. to Mexico for a few months for the adventure, but at this time I don't plan any long term cruising. I get different opinions from my friends and others, all experienced sailors. Most say keep it simple. Two batteries. One starter battery for the rebuilt A4 and one good deep cycle for the house, with a small, light, 10amp trickle charger. And a good solar charger. I will probably have an inverter, any suggestions on this would be appreciated also. I have a microwave aboard, an Ipod, refrigerator which I haven't chosen yet, and later on probably a water maker and possibly a flash water heater (which, I'm being told won't work well). Arguments against golf carts is space they require, and the wieght. And that I don't need them. True they can be charged many more times, but I'm told if I have the solar panels and the trickle charger and I watch the amps I'm using I won't deplete them any way. Any experienced cruisers out there, I would appreciate all suggestions. Both on the batteries and the inverter, and of course anything else you can think of like what your opions are on flash water heaters vs a regular water heater. Thanks
- Status
Iuse AGM
batteries and get about five years out of the with no attention. I have two one gallon dispensing type thermos jugs that I fill with hot water haeted on my galley stove. My ice box will keep cold on forty pounds of ice for three days in Maryland summer. When I built the systems for it I was determined to be able to continue even if I lost ALL electrical power.
batteries and get about five years out of the with no attention. I have two one gallon dispensing type thermos jugs that I fill with hot water haeted on my galley stove. My ice box will keep cold on forty pounds of ice for three days in Maryland summer. When I built the systems for it I was determined to be able to continue even if I lost ALL electrical power.
Your electrical load is higher than you think!
You shoud have two separate banks, one for starting and the other a house bank. You need to add all of your electrical devices and look at your daytime and nightime loads for a 24 hour period. For items that go through your inverter like the microwave, add 10% more for inverter efficiency. You will find your daily consumption to be much higher than you think when you actually factor in running lights, anchor light, gps, refrigeration, microwave and the minimum goodies you will have on board plus your water maker. You also should only count on dischaging your house bank 50% before recharging or you won't get much life out of your battery bank. Look at the Xantrex Freedom inverter/chargers. I have a full complement of all the things listed above (no water maker)plus radar, sat TV with tracking antenna, laptop computer, etc. and my load is about 30 amps per hour. I have two lifeline 4D batteries and with my consumption level, get about 6-7 hours to 50% if everything is running. I use a genset to recharge and when I want air condirtioning - with no solar. Based on what you have stated, you will run through a single battery pretty fast and your solar panel won't keep you charged. Do your homework on the loads while you are re-wiring and set yourself up correctly.
You shoud have two separate banks, one for starting and the other a house bank. You need to add all of your electrical devices and look at your daytime and nightime loads for a 24 hour period. For items that go through your inverter like the microwave, add 10% more for inverter efficiency. You will find your daily consumption to be much higher than you think when you actually factor in running lights, anchor light, gps, refrigeration, microwave and the minimum goodies you will have on board plus your water maker. You also should only count on dischaging your house bank 50% before recharging or you won't get much life out of your battery bank. Look at the Xantrex Freedom inverter/chargers. I have a full complement of all the things listed above (no water maker)plus radar, sat TV with tracking antenna, laptop computer, etc. and my load is about 30 amps per hour. I have two lifeline 4D batteries and with my consumption level, get about 6-7 hours to 50% if everything is running. I use a genset to recharge and when I want air condirtioning - with no solar. Based on what you have stated, you will run through a single battery pretty fast and your solar panel won't keep you charged. Do your homework on the loads while you are re-wiring and set yourself up correctly.
Not experienced but I'm working on it
I am right now in the process of installing golf cart batteries in my 27 foot Catalina - 75 vintage. Here are some issues I have dealt with: 1) Amps - most of my cruises will be shorter rather than longer - I think that is true with most folks. I plan on around 100 Amps a day to run a refrigerator, chart plotter/radar/fish finder (depth sounder, lights on occasions, microwave (I figure about 20 minutes a day). In the off season, I plan to run an electric heater off of the 1000 watt inverter, I will run the heater at 900 watts for around 8 hours if the cold becomes an issue inside the boat while sleeping - I like my creaturely comforts. Number of golf cart batteries - I decided 6 batteries will give me 3 days at one hundred amps. Or, I can run that electric heater longer on weekend cruises - 2 days. My batteries are 215 amps but at 6 volts have to be wired in parallel to get 12 volts. 6 batteries will give me a total of 600 amps, but run down to 50% only, yields a 300 amp usage. Inverter - I purposely purchased a 1000 watt inverter to run those items I might want to while under way or at anchor, like the microwave. I purposely chose the smaller inverter at 1000 watts to force myself to be conscious of the items that use power to conserve energy. For example, my wife can use a hair blower set on medium power for about 5 minutes and she will be happy. We lived in a recreational trailer years ago, first a 21 foot trailer, then a 35 foot fifth wheel. The total amps we could use at the one trailer park we were at the most was 15 amps for everything. After kicking off a number of fuses we became efficient a power use - like the hair blower at half power. Boat trim - those batteries do weigh a lot, mine around 63 pounds each. I have a large space in my Catalina that was for an inboard motor, however since I have an outboard, I have lots of space available. I was going to put all 6 batteries in this location (lots of room) but decided against it for boat trim reasons. I might put two in the front under the V birth, venting the V birth, and four in the back. This will offset the greater weight in the back somewhat. Solar panels/ wind generators/ Honda Generator: I went through the solar panel and wind generator thing and decided that if I have 300 amps to play with I should be cover about 90 % of the trips I will make in the boat. If I go out for two weeks, I've decided two things a) shore power will allow me to recharge if I stay on shore power for around 24 hours; and b) a 2000 watt Honda generator should give me about 200 amps of charge if I let it run all day (hit an island and do lots of hiking to get away from the rather silent generator). Solar panels for serious recharging are expensive and slow. Wind generators are better for speed of charging but rely on the wind, which may not be there in the summer (Pacific North West) and can vibrate badly and be a bit noisy. Some serious boaters (by this I mean those who want to use a number of electrical items during there cruise) are combining the two - wind generator and solar panels. By and large, I feel I will be able to get by with 300 amps for about 4 days if I watch my usage and that seems to be the cheapest option to go. If I feel I need more power I'll bring my Honda generator (earth quake preparedness - a good excuse to get one) along with me, for that one very long cruise. PS: My boat had no power to it at all, not even shore power. So I have had some one come down to the boat and add shore power (AC) and included outlets around the boat to use heaters and fans when permanently moored (to keep the boat dry and mold free). I have all the gizmo's needed to now add my batteries, including a quality inverter and battery charger. I edited this in: I almost forgot, I have seperate battery for the electric outboard engine, and a spare battery with built in inverter in case I do something stupid and kill all the batteries - I will still be able to start the motor. Or watch a movie with this battery on my lap top. I have a small solar panel trickle charger for this portable emergency battery. Have a Happy and Safe Holiday.
I am right now in the process of installing golf cart batteries in my 27 foot Catalina - 75 vintage. Here are some issues I have dealt with: 1) Amps - most of my cruises will be shorter rather than longer - I think that is true with most folks. I plan on around 100 Amps a day to run a refrigerator, chart plotter/radar/fish finder (depth sounder, lights on occasions, microwave (I figure about 20 minutes a day). In the off season, I plan to run an electric heater off of the 1000 watt inverter, I will run the heater at 900 watts for around 8 hours if the cold becomes an issue inside the boat while sleeping - I like my creaturely comforts. Number of golf cart batteries - I decided 6 batteries will give me 3 days at one hundred amps. Or, I can run that electric heater longer on weekend cruises - 2 days. My batteries are 215 amps but at 6 volts have to be wired in parallel to get 12 volts. 6 batteries will give me a total of 600 amps, but run down to 50% only, yields a 300 amp usage. Inverter - I purposely purchased a 1000 watt inverter to run those items I might want to while under way or at anchor, like the microwave. I purposely chose the smaller inverter at 1000 watts to force myself to be conscious of the items that use power to conserve energy. For example, my wife can use a hair blower set on medium power for about 5 minutes and she will be happy. We lived in a recreational trailer years ago, first a 21 foot trailer, then a 35 foot fifth wheel. The total amps we could use at the one trailer park we were at the most was 15 amps for everything. After kicking off a number of fuses we became efficient a power use - like the hair blower at half power. Boat trim - those batteries do weigh a lot, mine around 63 pounds each. I have a large space in my Catalina that was for an inboard motor, however since I have an outboard, I have lots of space available. I was going to put all 6 batteries in this location (lots of room) but decided against it for boat trim reasons. I might put two in the front under the V birth, venting the V birth, and four in the back. This will offset the greater weight in the back somewhat. Solar panels/ wind generators/ Honda Generator: I went through the solar panel and wind generator thing and decided that if I have 300 amps to play with I should be cover about 90 % of the trips I will make in the boat. If I go out for two weeks, I've decided two things a) shore power will allow me to recharge if I stay on shore power for around 24 hours; and b) a 2000 watt Honda generator should give me about 200 amps of charge if I let it run all day (hit an island and do lots of hiking to get away from the rather silent generator). Solar panels for serious recharging are expensive and slow. Wind generators are better for speed of charging but rely on the wind, which may not be there in the summer (Pacific North West) and can vibrate badly and be a bit noisy. Some serious boaters (by this I mean those who want to use a number of electrical items during there cruise) are combining the two - wind generator and solar panels. By and large, I feel I will be able to get by with 300 amps for about 4 days if I watch my usage and that seems to be the cheapest option to go. If I feel I need more power I'll bring my Honda generator (earth quake preparedness - a good excuse to get one) along with me, for that one very long cruise. PS: My boat had no power to it at all, not even shore power. So I have had some one come down to the boat and add shore power (AC) and included outlets around the boat to use heaters and fans when permanently moored (to keep the boat dry and mold free). I have all the gizmo's needed to now add my batteries, including a quality inverter and battery charger. I edited this in: I almost forgot, I have seperate battery for the electric outboard engine, and a spare battery with built in inverter in case I do something stupid and kill all the batteries - I will still be able to start the motor. Or watch a movie with this battery on my lap top. I have a small solar panel trickle charger for this portable emergency battery. Have a Happy and Safe Holiday.
needs
Do you REALLY need to run a microwave at sea (use the stove)? Do you REALLY need a watermaker when your just covering the western coastline (or are you planning on returning via Hawaii)? Do you REALLY need a water heater at sea (sun pack may do just fine if your trip is during warm months)? Solar pannels are a great idea but get a lot of them...as much as possible. A 10 amp charger isn't going to be enough...with solar pannels, there are going to be times where you don't get much of a charge and as long as you get plenty of panels, you can catch up, but not with a 10 amp charger. Remember...batteries are just like a credit card. What you spend you have to repay with interest. If you think of it this way, you will realize it's more important to reduce your spending (energy use) and increase you income (solar/wind).
Do you REALLY need to run a microwave at sea (use the stove)? Do you REALLY need a watermaker when your just covering the western coastline (or are you planning on returning via Hawaii)? Do you REALLY need a water heater at sea (sun pack may do just fine if your trip is during warm months)? Solar pannels are a great idea but get a lot of them...as much as possible. A 10 amp charger isn't going to be enough...with solar pannels, there are going to be times where you don't get much of a charge and as long as you get plenty of panels, you can catch up, but not with a 10 amp charger. Remember...batteries are just like a credit card. What you spend you have to repay with interest. If you think of it this way, you will realize it's more important to reduce your spending (energy use) and increase you income (solar/wind).
usage list
I would recommend ceating a power usage list. Look very careful around your boat at all items. Depth sounder, wind instraments, GPS, anchor light, nav lights, autopilot, etc and try to build and accruate and complete list. And don't under estimate. Use a amp guge or watt meter if necessary. We have found, us included, that most had a tendency to under estimate needs. Makai carries 680 amp house, 480watts of solar and a kiss wind gen. We find that watching tv, charging the computer, etc burn power that we didn't accuratly estimate (we also have a lot of other power toys as well). The other thing we didn't estimate was recharge under varying conditions. Ie sunny was no problem with the solar, but days that were cloudy and now less than wind or combined. We have a new list that has ranges that helped us revise the energy budget. Look and estimate carefully. Not having enough jiuce can alter your plans if you need to run the engine more or use less power related items than planned. We do not camp as we cruise but live a comfortable existance. We use our water maker and water, the SSB regularly, and watch TV on anchor. Enjoy but plan well.
I would recommend ceating a power usage list. Look very careful around your boat at all items. Depth sounder, wind instraments, GPS, anchor light, nav lights, autopilot, etc and try to build and accruate and complete list. And don't under estimate. Use a amp guge or watt meter if necessary. We have found, us included, that most had a tendency to under estimate needs. Makai carries 680 amp house, 480watts of solar and a kiss wind gen. We find that watching tv, charging the computer, etc burn power that we didn't accuratly estimate (we also have a lot of other power toys as well). The other thing we didn't estimate was recharge under varying conditions. Ie sunny was no problem with the solar, but days that were cloudy and now less than wind or combined. We have a new list that has ranges that helped us revise the energy budget. Look and estimate carefully. Not having enough jiuce can alter your plans if you need to run the engine more or use less power related items than planned. We do not camp as we cruise but live a comfortable existance. We use our water maker and water, the SSB regularly, and watch TV on anchor. Enjoy but plan well.
Depends on point of view - camping or living room
For me, when I go out on the boat, it is closer to camping than a living room. For lights, I just purchased a "not cheap" anchor light that runs on kerosene, with a Fresnel lens; I got this idea from either past issue of Sail magazine, or the one before that. Why burn electricity when I can burn kerosene. When we lived in the 21 foot trailer full time, we often used alternate lighting, rather than ac/dc to save on power. Again I will be using kerosene lighting (more doable in the Pacific North West - not as hot here) with the quality fuel that doesn't smell. Also from places like REI or Equipment Mountain Co-op here in Vancouver, you can get the candle lanterns, that can burn for eight hours on one candle, and don't leave a wax deposit. One of the candle lantern models holds three candles. I used these candle lanterns on a friend of mine's 32 foot sail boat and he really liked them and purchased them for use in his boat. All you need is a three candle lantern hanging over the dinette, one candle lantern in one corner of the cabin, and another candle lantern hanging in the head; and the boat feels real cozy. Running lights need only be on at night. If I am reading and sleeping in the V birth, the light on there will only be on for about one hour maximum to read before I fall asleep. In the 75 Catalina's 27, good old Catalina didn't install anything consuming electricity except the running lights and the higher white light (not an anchor light). The boat wasn't supplied with an electric bilge pump, which I am adding now, after 30 years of the boats existence. In our 21 foot trailer, we used a built in propane light and the Dutch Trawler kerosene light (rated at 60 watts) in this small trailer and we were happy and it felt snug.
For me, when I go out on the boat, it is closer to camping than a living room. For lights, I just purchased a "not cheap" anchor light that runs on kerosene, with a Fresnel lens; I got this idea from either past issue of Sail magazine, or the one before that. Why burn electricity when I can burn kerosene. When we lived in the 21 foot trailer full time, we often used alternate lighting, rather than ac/dc to save on power. Again I will be using kerosene lighting (more doable in the Pacific North West - not as hot here) with the quality fuel that doesn't smell. Also from places like REI or Equipment Mountain Co-op here in Vancouver, you can get the candle lanterns, that can burn for eight hours on one candle, and don't leave a wax deposit. One of the candle lantern models holds three candles. I used these candle lanterns on a friend of mine's 32 foot sail boat and he really liked them and purchased them for use in his boat. All you need is a three candle lantern hanging over the dinette, one candle lantern in one corner of the cabin, and another candle lantern hanging in the head; and the boat feels real cozy. Running lights need only be on at night. If I am reading and sleeping in the V birth, the light on there will only be on for about one hour maximum to read before I fall asleep. In the 75 Catalina's 27, good old Catalina didn't install anything consuming electricity except the running lights and the higher white light (not an anchor light). The boat wasn't supplied with an electric bilge pump, which I am adding now, after 30 years of the boats existence. In our 21 foot trailer, we used a built in propane light and the Dutch Trawler kerosene light (rated at 60 watts) in this small trailer and we were happy and it felt snug.
DC power management
Things to remember when outfitting a boat’s DC power grid: Several articles and books discussing living aboard with DC power demonstrate how to calculate your basic daily amp-hr consumption. The conscience is that the basic needs at anchor would be around 50 amp-hrs per day, and do not include water makers, refrigerators, and invertors. A refrigerator with reasonable insulation will consume, in a hot climate, about 10 amp-hrs per cubic foot per day. The house battery bank should have a capacity of at least four times the total daily amp hours used. The amp-hr replenishment system alternator, smart voltage regulator, solar or wind generator must be able to replace 110% of each days consumed amp-hrs. Wind generators appear to produce 50% of their advertised output. To power refrigeration from solar panels you will need fifty watts of rated output per cubic of refrigerator per day. When a single 12 volt battery in a bank of batteries is discharging at a rate that exceeds 20 amps there will be a loss of overall battery capacity, this is known as the Peukert value. Peukert value: A battery’s capacity will vary depending on the discharge current. This number is used to calculate the battery’s capacity at different discharge currents. It is possible that running a small Microwave can cut a battery’s capacity in half. You will find more information on this subject by watching the slide show on my web site. Near the end of the slides there are two boat electrical drawings, a small sailboat with refrigeration and a 39 ft live aboard world cruiser fully equipped.
Things to remember when outfitting a boat’s DC power grid: Several articles and books discussing living aboard with DC power demonstrate how to calculate your basic daily amp-hr consumption. The conscience is that the basic needs at anchor would be around 50 amp-hrs per day, and do not include water makers, refrigerators, and invertors. A refrigerator with reasonable insulation will consume, in a hot climate, about 10 amp-hrs per cubic foot per day. The house battery bank should have a capacity of at least four times the total daily amp hours used. The amp-hr replenishment system alternator, smart voltage regulator, solar or wind generator must be able to replace 110% of each days consumed amp-hrs. Wind generators appear to produce 50% of their advertised output. To power refrigeration from solar panels you will need fifty watts of rated output per cubic of refrigerator per day. When a single 12 volt battery in a bank of batteries is discharging at a rate that exceeds 20 amps there will be a loss of overall battery capacity, this is known as the Peukert value. Peukert value: A battery’s capacity will vary depending on the discharge current. This number is used to calculate the battery’s capacity at different discharge currents. It is possible that running a small Microwave can cut a battery’s capacity in half. You will find more information on this subject by watching the slide show on my web site. Near the end of the slides there are two boat electrical drawings, a small sailboat with refrigeration and a 39 ft live aboard world cruiser fully equipped.
Weight, space and cost of golf-cart batteries
per a/h is pretty much the same. Golf cart batteries are shaped different (taller and narrower) so they might cause a problem with installation in existing dedicated battery spaces. You didn't mention how you plan to charge your batteries while cruising. I assume you will use your engine. A 'stock' A4 alternator will put out 64 amps @12v. So there's your first decision: How much engine noise/heat/wear&tear/fuel cost are you willing to endure to charge your batteries? Except when on shore power, you probably won't charge your batteris to much more than 80 to 85%, because the batteries' acceptance of current tapers off as they charge and the cost (see engine discussion) becomes prohibitive when measured per amp-hour delivered. The general rule-of-thumb is to size your battery bank to discharge to 50% and charge to 80%. So 2 golf-carts in series will give you 215ah (when they are brand-new). 30% of 215 is 64. Hmmm, that's exactly what your alternator will deliver in 1 hour
So to get past daily consumption of 64 amps, you're going to have to add something. Solar, wind, towed generators all have uses. A heavy-duty alternator (or a second one) can also help, but be aware that you can't just pump more amps into a battery. Anything beyond 40% (85 amps for your 2 golf carts) and you're in trouble with heating and gassing. As for your consumption, there are various tables in books and on-line to help you estimate. The problem is that they all have to be very vague: cabin fan .2 to 1.0 amp..... or anchor light 1.0 to 1.7 amp.... because every piece of equipment is different. Only you can realistically caculate your expected load. And as several posters already mentioned, you will probably use more than you estimate. It's all a big trade-off...... Attached is a link to a battery FAQ site Refrigeration: If you're thinking of using a small AC refrigerator through your invertor, I suggest you examine the whole scenario closely: regular refrigerators are notoriously in-efficient, and when coupled with the in-efficiencies of an invertor, you'll use a lot of current. Even purpose-built refrigerators (see West Marine catalog) from Norcold will draw about 3 amps (24/7) which is over 70 amps a day. BTW, for hot water, why not put in an engine-driven water heater? Since you'll be running the engine every day, you'll get FREE hot water. I have one on my H31 that has an AC heater coil in it so I can get hot water when I'm hooked up to shore power without running the engine. So, all things considered, I suggest that if you can fit them in, you get the golf cart batteries... they'll last longer. Cheers, Bob
per a/h is pretty much the same. Golf cart batteries are shaped different (taller and narrower) so they might cause a problem with installation in existing dedicated battery spaces. You didn't mention how you plan to charge your batteries while cruising. I assume you will use your engine. A 'stock' A4 alternator will put out 64 amps @12v. So there's your first decision: How much engine noise/heat/wear&tear/fuel cost are you willing to endure to charge your batteries? Except when on shore power, you probably won't charge your batteris to much more than 80 to 85%, because the batteries' acceptance of current tapers off as they charge and the cost (see engine discussion) becomes prohibitive when measured per amp-hour delivered. The general rule-of-thumb is to size your battery bank to discharge to 50% and charge to 80%. So 2 golf-carts in series will give you 215ah (when they are brand-new). 30% of 215 is 64. Hmmm, that's exactly what your alternator will deliver in 1 hour
So to get past daily consumption of 64 amps, you're going to have to add something. Solar, wind, towed generators all have uses. A heavy-duty alternator (or a second one) can also help, but be aware that you can't just pump more amps into a battery. Anything beyond 40% (85 amps for your 2 golf carts) and you're in trouble with heating and gassing. As for your consumption, there are various tables in books and on-line to help you estimate. The problem is that they all have to be very vague: cabin fan .2 to 1.0 amp..... or anchor light 1.0 to 1.7 amp.... because every piece of equipment is different. Only you can realistically caculate your expected load. And as several posters already mentioned, you will probably use more than you estimate. It's all a big trade-off...... Attached is a link to a battery FAQ site Refrigeration: If you're thinking of using a small AC refrigerator through your invertor, I suggest you examine the whole scenario closely: regular refrigerators are notoriously in-efficient, and when coupled with the in-efficiencies of an invertor, you'll use a lot of current. Even purpose-built refrigerators (see West Marine catalog) from Norcold will draw about 3 amps (24/7) which is over 70 amps a day. BTW, for hot water, why not put in an engine-driven water heater? Since you'll be running the engine every day, you'll get FREE hot water. I have one on my H31 that has an AC heater coil in it so I can get hot water when I'm hooked up to shore power without running the engine. So, all things considered, I suggest that if you can fit them in, you get the golf cart batteries... they'll last longer. Cheers, Bob
Give them a try.
I'm on my second boat with a 12v starter and two golf cart batteries in series for 245 amps of power for the house bank. I am running a Xantrex 1750 watt inverter with very good results. The gc batteries can be discharged deeper and more times than most other batteries especially when you factor in the price. Here is a site with some good info: http://www.dynobattery.com/prod01.htm I consider the microwave as absolutely essential as nothing is better than popcorn with a cold beer!! I agree that adding water heating or a/c refrigeration is too much for this setup, but short microwave use, blender (for margaritas), and wife's hair dryer (occasionally) have not been a problem.
I'm on my second boat with a 12v starter and two golf cart batteries in series for 245 amps of power for the house bank. I am running a Xantrex 1750 watt inverter with very good results. The gc batteries can be discharged deeper and more times than most other batteries especially when you factor in the price. Here is a site with some good info: http://www.dynobattery.com/prod01.htm I consider the microwave as absolutely essential as nothing is better than popcorn with a cold beer!! I agree that adding water heating or a/c refrigeration is too much for this setup, but short microwave use, blender (for margaritas), and wife's hair dryer (occasionally) have not been a problem.
Sit Down and Think
Mr. Kollman's comments encapsulated a lot of rambling I started typing before his post hit. The bottom line: Even a minimal system is going to have a significant power draw. If you avoid the refrigeration system (sorry, Richard), the water-maker, the microwave/inverter, you can probably get by with that one house battery and a good solar panel. Every step beyond that requres charging capacity and storage capacity (and inefficiency if inverting DC to AC), and will require large inputs of cash to keep from hauling water and ice out to your boat. Oh, and then you have the complexity of a system that depends on your skills to keep running. I can pay for a LOT of slip fees and block ice all along the west coast and into Baja for the cost of that equipment, and most of the water is for the taking/hauling. There are still many cruisers out there who live happily this way. Here is a useful primer by marine electrical guru Don Casey that may prove helpful to you: http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/30.htm Whatever you do, spend the time educating yourself before you make any decisions/write any checks. Fair Winds.
Mr. Kollman's comments encapsulated a lot of rambling I started typing before his post hit. The bottom line: Even a minimal system is going to have a significant power draw. If you avoid the refrigeration system (sorry, Richard), the water-maker, the microwave/inverter, you can probably get by with that one house battery and a good solar panel. Every step beyond that requres charging capacity and storage capacity (and inefficiency if inverting DC to AC), and will require large inputs of cash to keep from hauling water and ice out to your boat. Oh, and then you have the complexity of a system that depends on your skills to keep running. I can pay for a LOT of slip fees and block ice all along the west coast and into Baja for the cost of that equipment, and most of the water is for the taking/hauling. There are still many cruisers out there who live happily this way. Here is a useful primer by marine electrical guru Don Casey that may prove helpful to you: http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/30.htm Whatever you do, spend the time educating yourself before you make any decisions/write any checks. Fair Winds.
Once again...stove
"I consider the microwave as absolutely essential as nothing is better than popcorn with a cold beer!! " Maybe because I grew up without a microwave, I know that you can make popcorn on a stove in just about the same time as a microwave.
"I consider the microwave as absolutely essential as nothing is better than popcorn with a cold beer!! " Maybe because I grew up without a microwave, I know that you can make popcorn on a stove in just about the same time as a microwave.
I've never heard anybody complain
about having too much battery capacity. It's sort of like having an anchor that holds too good or being too good looking (I wouldn't know.) I don't know that we qualify as 'real' cruisers as we're still working but we are full time liveaboards of nearly 6 years and have logged nearly 10,000 miles in that time. We spend weeks at a time each year on the hook so I'll float a few opinions... First of all, golf cart batts are an excellent choice. They're optimized for the kind of abuse a cruising boat provides. Secondly, when a bad cell pops up you'll not have to lug a 4D or 8D onto the dock (or worse, the dink) to replace it. Also, consider that in a bank of several paralleled batts if a single battery goes out you can easily remove the connection to the offender and continue on your way with a smaller bank until it's convenient to deal with it. The reality of living on battery power is that you'll actually get to use a third or less of rated capacity. You'll not discharge less than 50% if you don't want to reduce the life of the batteries and you won't charge past 85% on the engine or genset because it takes too dang long. On top of all that, most owners don't keep their batteries and connections in optimal condition. If you're running a 12v reefer in warm climes along with radio, lights and other comforts then you'll easily be at or above 100amp/hrs a day. Do the energy survey that others suggest but don't size your bank to 'just cover' the load. Want a 200 amp/hr working capacity? A 600 to 800 amp/hr bank is realistic. 400 amp/hrs won't get it done in the real world. Don't worry about the weight. Yes, it'll slow the boat a bit but if you keep the weight low and centered in the boat you probably won't notice it. You WILL notice being able to keep food cold and lights on at anchor without having to constantly run the engine. Next, I'm going to step on some toes because I know those cute little Honda generators are all the rage but I assure you they're not as quiet as some think they are. We've been anchored directly downwind of those things many times and having the serene moments in a lovely harborage being masked by a yammering generator is frustrating. I invite those who doubt this to dinghy around to your neightbors and ask. I think solar panels are the way to go. They're silent, nearly maintenance free and will last forever. I'll bet my 220 watts of panels cost less than a Honda generator. I'm not sure what you mean by a 'trickle' charger but regardless of capacity either for shore charger or alternator/regulator be sure you have a proper 3 stage capability wth both. You'll want the ability to equalize if you've got lead/acid type. I know everybody cruises differently but I'd advise you to listen most closely to those who are actually doing it, and doing it the way YOU want to. Oh yeah, Great choice of boat. A close friend has a Cal 34 and it sails beautifully.
about having too much battery capacity. It's sort of like having an anchor that holds too good or being too good looking (I wouldn't know.) I don't know that we qualify as 'real' cruisers as we're still working but we are full time liveaboards of nearly 6 years and have logged nearly 10,000 miles in that time. We spend weeks at a time each year on the hook so I'll float a few opinions... First of all, golf cart batts are an excellent choice. They're optimized for the kind of abuse a cruising boat provides. Secondly, when a bad cell pops up you'll not have to lug a 4D or 8D onto the dock (or worse, the dink) to replace it. Also, consider that in a bank of several paralleled batts if a single battery goes out you can easily remove the connection to the offender and continue on your way with a smaller bank until it's convenient to deal with it. The reality of living on battery power is that you'll actually get to use a third or less of rated capacity. You'll not discharge less than 50% if you don't want to reduce the life of the batteries and you won't charge past 85% on the engine or genset because it takes too dang long. On top of all that, most owners don't keep their batteries and connections in optimal condition. If you're running a 12v reefer in warm climes along with radio, lights and other comforts then you'll easily be at or above 100amp/hrs a day. Do the energy survey that others suggest but don't size your bank to 'just cover' the load. Want a 200 amp/hr working capacity? A 600 to 800 amp/hr bank is realistic. 400 amp/hrs won't get it done in the real world. Don't worry about the weight. Yes, it'll slow the boat a bit but if you keep the weight low and centered in the boat you probably won't notice it. You WILL notice being able to keep food cold and lights on at anchor without having to constantly run the engine. Next, I'm going to step on some toes because I know those cute little Honda generators are all the rage but I assure you they're not as quiet as some think they are. We've been anchored directly downwind of those things many times and having the serene moments in a lovely harborage being masked by a yammering generator is frustrating. I invite those who doubt this to dinghy around to your neightbors and ask. I think solar panels are the way to go. They're silent, nearly maintenance free and will last forever. I'll bet my 220 watts of panels cost less than a Honda generator. I'm not sure what you mean by a 'trickle' charger but regardless of capacity either for shore charger or alternator/regulator be sure you have a proper 3 stage capability wth both. You'll want the ability to equalize if you've got lead/acid type. I know everybody cruises differently but I'd advise you to listen most closely to those who are actually doing it, and doing it the way YOU want to. Oh yeah, Great choice of boat. A close friend has a Cal 34 and it sails beautifully.
Spitting in the wind
Lots of good advice here. To add my 2 cents, you seem to be relying a bit much on the solar panel. Compared to your load, any modest solar panel isn't going to be noticable compared to your load. Solar panels are good for boats with much more modest power requirements (e.g. no microwave, etc.), keeping batteries topped off while sitting on a mooring, and combined with wind generators for off-shore sailing.
Lots of good advice here. To add my 2 cents, you seem to be relying a bit much on the solar panel. Compared to your load, any modest solar panel isn't going to be noticable compared to your load. Solar panels are good for boats with much more modest power requirements (e.g. no microwave, etc.), keeping batteries topped off while sitting on a mooring, and combined with wind generators for off-shore sailing.
Solar or wind
The use of solar or wind depends on the location. The Cheseapeake bay solar is better than wind and in the Caribe wind and solar go well. So far with the wind gen it carries less of the load than the solar and is noisier, but does its job when we are making over night passages and we do quite a few of them. We went with solar for the first 2 years and finally added wind. We have a watermaker, ssb, TV, DVD player, 12 fridge and seperate freezer, and radar, autopilot, etc underway. With 4 120 panels we had no problem on sunny to mostly sunny days keeping our battery bank on float. That is 90-95% charged. As mentioned below real world use is less than the battery bank. Also as the batteries are use they slowly sulfate and the total capacity drops until they are equalized. This reduces your overall daily amp avaliblity. We use the Honda 2K as a backup and have asked people anchored around us and many don't even know we are running it on deck. They are quiet and it can be an effective way to charge if your system is configuered for it. More is better unless you want to camp and then more is better.
The use of solar or wind depends on the location. The Cheseapeake bay solar is better than wind and in the Caribe wind and solar go well. So far with the wind gen it carries less of the load than the solar and is noisier, but does its job when we are making over night passages and we do quite a few of them. We went with solar for the first 2 years and finally added wind. We have a watermaker, ssb, TV, DVD player, 12 fridge and seperate freezer, and radar, autopilot, etc underway. With 4 120 panels we had no problem on sunny to mostly sunny days keeping our battery bank on float. That is 90-95% charged. As mentioned below real world use is less than the battery bank. Also as the batteries are use they slowly sulfate and the total capacity drops until they are equalized. This reduces your overall daily amp avaliblity. We use the Honda 2K as a backup and have asked people anchored around us and many don't even know we are running it on deck. They are quiet and it can be an effective way to charge if your system is configuered for it. More is better unless you want to camp and then more is better.
golf cart
Golf cart batteries give you more amp hrs and seem to last longer due to the increase in amp hrs. Flash water heaters work great with shorepower but not through an inverter (through your batteries). Heaters, water heaters and such use way too many amps to be effectively used through an inverter.
Golf cart batteries give you more amp hrs and seem to last longer due to the increase in amp hrs. Flash water heaters work great with shorepower but not through an inverter (through your batteries). Heaters, water heaters and such use way too many amps to be effectively used through an inverter.
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