Getting an H33 to Perform

[nick8489]

I received the following email from a fellow H33 owner and would welcome Don Guillette's comments on this and my reply.

Nick,
I followed your results in the Hamilton Island races. I hope you had a great week.
To achieve the best from your Hunter 33 did you make any mods to the original sail plan. I'm interested as I have started some twilights in my 33.
Hope you can add some ideas to the ones I am thinking of.
Regards
Keith

Hi Keith,
Yes we had a great week but could have done much better if I know what I know now!
Here are some comments:
1. I had a new laminated main (Pentex_material) which allowed us to point much better in 15/20 knot winds. It was considerably flatter than the original baggy UK sail. We could go 6 knots plus at around 30 deg to the apparent wind.
2. Upwind in strong winds ie 20/30 knots reefed, against strong currents in any wind and in light winds we just could not develop enough power and lost out badly. The lack of a driving headsail is the problem. These conditions were very common at Hamilton. For example the finishing line was often against a strong current (3/4 knots) and on one race where we were placed very well until the end, took an hour to make the last few hundred metres!
3. In any winds at 60 deg plus to the apparent we did very well and were out performing much bigger boats. Note that we have the standard Hunter asymmetrical spinnaker.
4. Dead down wind we also did surprisingly well by having the spinnaker out one side, the poled out headsail and main on the other. The problem was there were not enough of these conditions to help us in the results!
5. The answer for racing is to switch to hanked on headsails and carry a second large one for certain conditions. This is not as easy a Hunter as on most boats due to the position of the shrouds and track. Another option may be to have a headsail still on the furler but cut much lower as a deck sweeper. The only problem with this is that in strong winds you would have to reef the main earlier or sail with a reefed headsail for a lot of the time. Also I don't know whether the track might have to be changed and brought forward or whether the Hunters tiny winches would be up to it.
4 All in all the problem is singular - Headsail. As far as Hamilton is concerned we could do better next time now having "local knowledge" It is incredibly different to sailing anywhere else that I have been.
Regards
Nick

 

[Don Guillette]

H33 Performance

Nick: Racing in your neck of the woods sounds like a lot of fun.

For this responce I have to make a couple of assumptions. The first is that the crew appears to be experienced - they were thinking of changing sails on the fly - and second that the boat is a masthead rig.

The reason I mention the experience crew is that I've raced Catalina30's in over 40 knots of wind at Santa Cruz, Ca. I really never gave the wind speed a thought and we did not reef either sail. If I encountered those conditions in So. Ca, either single handed or with guests who had very little experience, I would have never left the dock. The point I'm making is that with an experienced crew you can get away with a lot.

On a mast head rig the jib is EVERYTHING even if it a rag. At these Catalina30 National Regattas they give us the crappiest boat they can find. Didn't happen when we raced in So Ca because I was able to dump the crapper they gave us in favor of a good boat. In the C30 National event in San Diego it was a different matter. The 150 deck sweeper was on its last legs but we did not want to part with it. We had to bum some sail repair tape from local racers to get it to work for the first race. A trip to West Marine was necessary for the next races. We took an easy second and we were the only ones with a deck sweeper. It is my personal opinion that if you are serious about racing you have to have a deck sweeper. Some may disagree but that is my opinion. The difference is like a 350 Chevy going against a 460 Ford. The more wind you can harness (power) the faster you go.

There is a problem with pointing and that is skippers, in their zeal to point hinger and higher, go beyond pointing into pinching. Pinching is a speed killer even though it looks trick. If you had 2 equal boats going head to head where one boat is pinching and the other pointing, the pointing boat will win. Actually if you had 3 boats and the 3rd boat was slightly off of pointing, he'd win. Pointing is not necessarily the fasted point of sail. Experiment and see if it works for you.

Get a good quality deck sweeper to match the main and you'll be amazed at the results. No matter what type of sails you have, the key is proper sail trim. Without proper sail trim it doesn't matter what type of sails you have.

 

[nick8489]

Thanks Don, appreciate your comments.
Yes we do have an experienced crew and we do have a lot of fun sailing 12 months of the year down here!
The standard H33 Hunter rig is not masthead its somewhere between 3/4 and 7/8. It has the B&R rig with very pronounced mast bend, no backstays and the big main with a large roach. Consequently the headsail is tiny compared to the Catalina.
The standard patter is that the modern Hunters are "mainsail driven". Technically it is very difficult to fit a larger headsail as the standard headsail is up against the spreaders and shrouds when sheeted hard in and if you fill in the triangle from the foot to the cllew, effectively getting as close to a deck sweeper as possible the sheeting angles are all wrong with the existing track. As far as reefing is concerned, with the large roachy main you get the same speed in 20 knots of wind with one reef but sail more upright.
I guess what I am saying is that the unconventional rig on the new Hunters perhaps demand some different techniques to Catalinas, Bavarias, Bennys etc. We can certainly clean them all up except when trying to power upwind in the conditions I originally described. Generally in a race against say a Catalina 34 we just hold our own or lose a bit upwind in 15 knot plus, but more than make it up on anything broader than 40 deg apparent. However in less than 12 knots or against a current upwind they all clean us up.
Cheers, Nick

 

[Benny]

The boat was designed to sail fairly upright and heeling angles in excess of 20 degrees don't seem to result in increased speed. The boats because of light displacement and hull shape will loose speed faster against oncoming seas than similar heavier boats with classic hull shapes. The driving power on the boat is the large roach main and the headsail is mainly for stability. The boat displays a fairly high pointing ability but as Don Gillette says it will not be its fastest point of sail. You indicate having a "very pronunced" mast bend on the fractional rig. Check the recommended design specs as I don't recall seeing any extreme mast rake on B&R rigged boats. Get to know the boat, its strengths and weaknesses. Explore sailing off the wind and seas a little and see how she performs; after all it is Velocity Made Good to Destination that is important.