Anyone have any experience with a genset on an H410? I'm looking to put one in this winter. I know Hunter recommends a Northern genset. Curious about noise, any experience with other brands, fuel consumption and the like. Comments are appreciated. S/V Spellbinder Weymouth, MA
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Another Brand
I have the 8kw Northern Lights on my 460. It does an adequate job and is very quite in the cockpit. It's a little loud in the quarter berth where it is located. You may want to look into the Fisher Panda. It is supposed to be the smallest, quitest on the market, although it is more expensive than most. MPJ
I have the 8kw Northern Lights on my 460. It does an adequate job and is very quite in the cockpit. It's a little loud in the quarter berth where it is located. You may want to look into the Fisher Panda. It is supposed to be the smallest, quitest on the market, although it is more expensive than most. MPJ
entec
Bryce: We have the 4.5Kw Entec diesel generator on our 1999 H410. It is installed in the starboard transom locker. While it is easy to remove the transom and genset covers to get to the unit in that location, it is a bit tricky for servicing (you have to go in from the starboard lazarette), but that is the only downside to it. It uses fuel from the main diesel line that services the engine but has a sensor that prevents the genset from using all the fuel in the tank so the main engine cannot run out of fuel by forgetting to turn off the genset. But, the fuel consumption is so low that you can run it for about four hours on one gallon of fuel. It is EXTREMELY quiet (it is well insulated) - you can carry on a normal conversation in the saloon while it is running - and you won't get driven off the boat by diesel fumes. With our 85amp alternator, we run the Entec for about a half hour in the morning to recharge the batteries, and make coffee and heat water at the same time. We've only needed to run it again at night when we have guests who forget to close reefer doors, turn off lights, charge cell phones, etc. The cost is approximately $8K installed. Please feel free to write if you need any additional information. /c s/v Twilight
Bryce: We have the 4.5Kw Entec diesel generator on our 1999 H410. It is installed in the starboard transom locker. While it is easy to remove the transom and genset covers to get to the unit in that location, it is a bit tricky for servicing (you have to go in from the starboard lazarette), but that is the only downside to it. It uses fuel from the main diesel line that services the engine but has a sensor that prevents the genset from using all the fuel in the tank so the main engine cannot run out of fuel by forgetting to turn off the genset. But, the fuel consumption is so low that you can run it for about four hours on one gallon of fuel. It is EXTREMELY quiet (it is well insulated) - you can carry on a normal conversation in the saloon while it is running - and you won't get driven off the boat by diesel fumes. With our 85amp alternator, we run the Entec for about a half hour in the morning to recharge the batteries, and make coffee and heat water at the same time. We've only needed to run it again at night when we have guests who forget to close reefer doors, turn off lights, charge cell phones, etc. The cost is approximately $8K installed. Please feel free to write if you need any additional information. /c s/v Twilight
fischer panda
i have investigated various gensets for my 40.5...i've been convinced that the fischer panda is the lightest and quietest of the major brands...it is more expensive and will cost about $750 more than another brand... bob
i have investigated various gensets for my 40.5...i've been convinced that the fischer panda is the lightest and quietest of the major brands...it is more expensive and will cost about $750 more than another brand... bob
what price
I priced a panda 6kw to replace the kohler unit on my Passage 42 and they wanted $14k to do the job. The kohler is too noisy and hot so I thought maybe I could replace it with something more modern. That price was a bit extreme so I passed. What size and price are you adding and where? Thanks bw
I priced a panda 6kw to replace the kohler unit on my Passage 42 and they wanted $14k to do the job. The kohler is too noisy and hot so I thought maybe I could replace it with something more modern. That price was a bit extreme so I passed. What size and price are you adding and where? Thanks bw
6KW too small I think
Bill: I don't know what size generator you have on your 42, but I have a 8KW Northern Lights on my 46 and I think it is too small. After anchoring out one night, I turned on the generator in the AM turned on the heat(it was cold), the charger came on the hot water heater came on, then the Grunert 110volt refrigeration kicked in and the generator was REALLY lugging, and spewing black soot out of the exhaust. I turned off one of the heating units and it was fine. I think a 9 or 10KW would be a better size for my boat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you have all the same 110 volt stuff on your boat that I have on mine. It seems to me that the generator should be sized to run everything on the boat at the same time. MPJ
Bill: I don't know what size generator you have on your 42, but I have a 8KW Northern Lights on my 46 and I think it is too small. After anchoring out one night, I turned on the generator in the AM turned on the heat(it was cold), the charger came on the hot water heater came on, then the Grunert 110volt refrigeration kicked in and the generator was REALLY lugging, and spewing black soot out of the exhaust. I turned off one of the heating units and it was fine. I think a 9 or 10KW would be a better size for my boat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you have all the same 110 volt stuff on your boat that I have on mine. It seems to me that the generator should be sized to run everything on the boat at the same time. MPJ
Genset on 42
The refridgeration on the 42 is 12V. After talking with Panda and delineating all the gear on the boat they determined that the 6kw was more than sufficient. I had already decided that the existing 8kw is too much and their calculation supported mine. Hunter bought a number of these Kohler units at a great price apparently and that's why they're on board. They are big, heavy, and hot. I'm looking for a unit that will reduce the heat produced in the engine compartment when both engines are running. A byproduct of the panda would be some additional space, possibly enough for an additional battery. However, at a cost of $14,700, I decided to pass and live with what I have. thanks for the input, bw
The refridgeration on the 42 is 12V. After talking with Panda and delineating all the gear on the boat they determined that the 6kw was more than sufficient. I had already decided that the existing 8kw is too much and their calculation supported mine. Hunter bought a number of these Kohler units at a great price apparently and that's why they're on board. They are big, heavy, and hot. I'm looking for a unit that will reduce the heat produced in the engine compartment when both engines are running. A byproduct of the panda would be some additional space, possibly enough for an additional battery. However, at a cost of $14,700, I decided to pass and live with what I have. thanks for the input, bw
6 kw good enough
I have a 410 with a 6 kw Northen Lights. It seems to be big enough to handle 120v requirments on my boat. We also have no problem sleeping in the Aft cabin with it running.
I have a 410 with a 6 kw Northen Lights. It seems to be big enough to handle 120v requirments on my boat. We also have no problem sleeping in the Aft cabin with it running.
Big Problem - Genset can kill you....
You sleep in the boat with the genset running???? Do you know that that can kill you without you ever waking up? PLEASE stop doing this! MC
You sleep in the boat with the genset running???? Do you know that that can kill you without you ever waking up? PLEASE stop doing this! MC
Diesel gensets are safe, Mike
You're absolutely right that CO (carbon monoxide) emissions from gas powered generators are potentially lethal. However, there has never been a single reported CO fatality--or even a near miss--from a diesel powered marine genset.
You're absolutely right that CO (carbon monoxide) emissions from gas powered generators are potentially lethal. However, there has never been a single reported CO fatality--or even a near miss--from a diesel powered marine genset.
Genset Safety
Peggy, Diesels emit carbon monoxide (among other things) in the exhaust. Carbon monoxide is poisonous at very low concentrations (it interferes with the ability of haemoglobin to bind oxygen molecules). Admittedly, they emit less than gas engines, but its still there. Try putting a CO detector near the exhaust of a diesel. The manual for my genset specifically warns in bold print against running it while sleeping. There is, of course, a legal reason for this warning, but there is also a valid medical reason. The lack of reported fatalities is probably due to the fact that most people DON'T run gensets while they are asleep in boats, or, if they do, they run small gas sets up forward on the deck. It is NOT because the exhaust from diesels is non-toxic. MC
Peggy, Diesels emit carbon monoxide (among other things) in the exhaust. Carbon monoxide is poisonous at very low concentrations (it interferes with the ability of haemoglobin to bind oxygen molecules). Admittedly, they emit less than gas engines, but its still there. Try putting a CO detector near the exhaust of a diesel. The manual for my genset specifically warns in bold print against running it while sleeping. There is, of course, a legal reason for this warning, but there is also a valid medical reason. The lack of reported fatalities is probably due to the fact that most people DON'T run gensets while they are asleep in boats, or, if they do, they run small gas sets up forward on the deck. It is NOT because the exhaust from diesels is non-toxic. MC
caribbean genset
i've had nothern ligths generators for over 6 years. one in my previous 37.5 being a 5kw and in my 410 being a 6kw. we run it whenever we overnight or take off for the islands.our average for a week is close to 100 hours.i had the factory install the genset completly 180 degrees from their normal position so that i can fit thru the aft stbd locker and all the maintenance can be done while sitting down inside this locker. nl gensets have all their servicing done on one side of the set.
i've had nothern ligths generators for over 6 years. one in my previous 37.5 being a 5kw and in my 410 being a 6kw. we run it whenever we overnight or take off for the islands.our average for a week is close to 100 hours.i had the factory install the genset completly 180 degrees from their normal position so that i can fit thru the aft stbd locker and all the maintenance can be done while sitting down inside this locker. nl gensets have all their servicing done on one side of the set.
Plus & Minus
On our 42 with an 8k Norther Lights we can run the a/c and little else before tripping the breaker. However in the morning when both engines are cold, the generator will run heat, water heater and a bit more before it warms up to much and the generator loses efficiency. The panda is enormously quieter, and becuause the generator is water cooled as opposed to the air cooling of the Northern Lights. I should expect will be able to do the same job as a smaller unit both physically and numerically. The smaller size and weight of the panda is obviously offset to some degree by price, though I don't know by how much. If the panda is turbo charged, it may be even quieter as the turbo tends to muffle exhaust. Does the center of gravity change much by the weight difference and what is the maximum angle that you can run the generator before the oil pickup runs dry if needed? + and -
On our 42 with an 8k Norther Lights we can run the a/c and little else before tripping the breaker. However in the morning when both engines are cold, the generator will run heat, water heater and a bit more before it warms up to much and the generator loses efficiency. The panda is enormously quieter, and becuause the generator is water cooled as opposed to the air cooling of the Northern Lights. I should expect will be able to do the same job as a smaller unit both physically and numerically. The smaller size and weight of the panda is obviously offset to some degree by price, though I don't know by how much. If the panda is turbo charged, it may be even quieter as the turbo tends to muffle exhaust. Does the center of gravity change much by the weight difference and what is the maximum angle that you can run the generator before the oil pickup runs dry if needed? + and -
Running a small gas genset forward on deck?
Is a very bad idea! The danger from CO rarely has anything to do with emissions released in the boat--i.e. in the engine room or from a faulty exhaust, but rather from CO pulled into the cabin by the heat/ac system as it exchanges the air inside with the air outside. While CO emissions pulled into the cabin from gas engines are high enough to kil, unless th/ere's an exhaust leake, diesel CO emissions are low enough to present little if any health hazard. This difference is best illustrated by the fact that Onan discontinued gas powered marine gensets several years ago because of the liability exposure caused by their improper use by boat owners, but continue to make diesel marine gensets. As gensets have become more popular on boats, CO poisioning has become a major issue in the industry. ABYC, BOAT/U.S. and NFPA are involved in ongoing studies regarding their installation and use...and instead of beating the subject to death here, I suggest you call BOAT/US...they published a series of articles a few years ago that I think you'll find enlightening.
Is a very bad idea! The danger from CO rarely has anything to do with emissions released in the boat--i.e. in the engine room or from a faulty exhaust, but rather from CO pulled into the cabin by the heat/ac system as it exchanges the air inside with the air outside. While CO emissions pulled into the cabin from gas engines are high enough to kil, unless th/ere's an exhaust leake, diesel CO emissions are low enough to present little if any health hazard. This difference is best illustrated by the fact that Onan discontinued gas powered marine gensets several years ago because of the liability exposure caused by their improper use by boat owners, but continue to make diesel marine gensets. As gensets have become more popular on boats, CO poisioning has become a major issue in the industry. ABYC, BOAT/U.S. and NFPA are involved in ongoing studies regarding their installation and use...and instead of beating the subject to death here, I suggest you call BOAT/US...they published a series of articles a few years ago that I think you'll find enlightening.
Northern Lights GenSet
My Northern Lights GenSet is water cooled. One thing I did find after I got the boat home was that it leaked out of the muffler. There could of been problems if I had not fixed the leak. Last summer we were out on the hook. It was about 100% which is very hot for Washington. There was a Hunter 30 also anchored next to us. I went by and asked them if they would like to come over fora drink. They said it was to hot to get off the boat. I said well it's about 72% on my boat as we have a gen set and a/c. It didn't take them long to come over to the boat.
My Northern Lights GenSet is water cooled. One thing I did find after I got the boat home was that it leaked out of the muffler. There could of been problems if I had not fixed the leak. Last summer we were out on the hook. It was about 100% which is very hot for Washington. There was a Hunter 30 also anchored next to us. I went by and asked them if they would like to come over fora drink. They said it was to hot to get off the boat. I said well it's about 72% on my boat as we have a gen set and a/c. It didn't take them long to come over to the boat.
I agree
Running a genset on the foredeck is in fact a very bad idea, although I have seen people do it. Where I am (SoCal), most people do not have heating/AC systems, so I hadn't considered that aspect of the problem. I would be mostly concerned about an exhaust leak in a genset installed in the boat, or the fumes blowing back into the hatches or companionway because of the wind direction. While diesel may not contain as much CO as gas exhaust, the quantity is still sufficient to kill or seriously injure over time. Diesel exhaust also contains a lot of other chemicals, some of which can cause severe respiratory and eye problems. I continue to maintain that running a genset while sleeping is just plain dangerous and generally unnecessary. MC
Running a genset on the foredeck is in fact a very bad idea, although I have seen people do it. Where I am (SoCal), most people do not have heating/AC systems, so I hadn't considered that aspect of the problem. I would be mostly concerned about an exhaust leak in a genset installed in the boat, or the fumes blowing back into the hatches or companionway because of the wind direction. While diesel may not contain as much CO as gas exhaust, the quantity is still sufficient to kill or seriously injure over time. Diesel exhaust also contains a lot of other chemicals, some of which can cause severe respiratory and eye problems. I continue to maintain that running a genset while sleeping is just plain dangerous and generally unnecessary. MC
CO Detector
We don't have a genset, but installed a diesel heater in the transom where the genset would have gone. Same problem, since a breeze coming from an opposite direction of the tidal flow could cause the cabin to fill with exhaust while sleeping, especially if the companionway hatch is open. Just to be safe, we installed a battery-powered carbon monoxide detector built by First Alert. The units are relatively cheap. We anchor out a bunch during the winter months, but so far have never had to run the heater at night. Still, the first one up in the morning turns it on, and generally snuggles back to sleep while waiting for the shower water to heat up. It's nice to know that the CO detector is watching over us just in case the system goes kerflooey.
We don't have a genset, but installed a diesel heater in the transom where the genset would have gone. Same problem, since a breeze coming from an opposite direction of the tidal flow could cause the cabin to fill with exhaust while sleeping, especially if the companionway hatch is open. Just to be safe, we installed a battery-powered carbon monoxide detector built by First Alert. The units are relatively cheap. We anchor out a bunch during the winter months, but so far have never had to run the heater at night. Still, the first one up in the morning turns it on, and generally snuggles back to sleep while waiting for the shower water to heat up. It's nice to know that the CO detector is watching over us just in case the system goes kerflooey.
Gen Sets - Kohler
We have a 9kw Kohler on our H450 that has performed great. Runs everything on the boat at once. It also has a Yanmar engine. We have run the gen and A/C while sleeping with no problem, but we have installed a CO monitor in the aft cabin and put in a real engine room blower (squirrel cage type, the one that Hunter put on from the factory is a joke and not intended for extended use - we went through three of them and one almost caught fire before we figured it out). We also installed an intake vent directly into the engine room so the blower doesn't suck out all the cool air from the inside. Works great now.
We have a 9kw Kohler on our H450 that has performed great. Runs everything on the boat at once. It also has a Yanmar engine. We have run the gen and A/C while sleeping with no problem, but we have installed a CO monitor in the aft cabin and put in a real engine room blower (squirrel cage type, the one that Hunter put on from the factory is a joke and not intended for extended use - we went through three of them and one almost caught fire before we figured it out). We also installed an intake vent directly into the engine room so the blower doesn't suck out all the cool air from the inside. Works great now.
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