I have no idea where the Genoa Cars should go.What should I be looking for as far as placement?Is there a "Primer" somewhere on the web? Any help would be appreciated,LLOYD
Genoa Cars ??????And thanks for the Anchoring Help
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Cars or Tracks ??
Lloyd - are you looking for guidance on the placement of Genoa Car Tracks, or the proper placement/trimming of the Genoa Cars on existing tracks on your boat. The former, I know nothing about. The latter, I do. Genoa cars should be positioned fore and aft on the boat so that tell tails on your Genoa (near the bottom, in the middle and near the top of the genoa) all "break" (lift up) at about the same time when you luff up into the wind. If the bottom tell tails lift up before the others, move the car back a bit and try it again, if the top tell tails lift before the others, move the car forward a bit and try again. (Of course, I may have mixed up my forward and back movements, I sure someone will search the archives and let me know about it, but you get the idea). Good Luck! Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
Lloyd - are you looking for guidance on the placement of Genoa Car Tracks, or the proper placement/trimming of the Genoa Cars on existing tracks on your boat. The former, I know nothing about. The latter, I do. Genoa cars should be positioned fore and aft on the boat so that tell tails on your Genoa (near the bottom, in the middle and near the top of the genoa) all "break" (lift up) at about the same time when you luff up into the wind. If the bottom tell tails lift up before the others, move the car back a bit and try it again, if the top tell tails lift before the others, move the car forward a bit and try again. (Of course, I may have mixed up my forward and back movements, I sure someone will search the archives and let me know about it, but you get the idea). Good Luck! Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
Genoa Car Placement
Your genny sheet pulls both aft, and down on the clew of the genoa. Set the genoa car for best performance tacking into the wind. Pulling aft changes the angle at which the luff of the lower sail meets the wind (angle of attack.) The objective is to keep the lower telltales streaming back with the near or windward telltale dipping 20 to 30 percent of the time with the action of the waves. Pulling down controls the angle of attack toward the top of the sail, keeping it more in line with the bottom. Actually, the wind blows a little faster higher up, so the apparent wind comes more from the beam on high, and you want to ease the downward pull enough to increase the angle of attack to keep the top telltales behaving like the bottom - both streaming, with the windward (closer) telltale dipping 20 to 30 percent of the time. This higher angle of attack toward the top of the sail is called twist. Since we only have one genny sheet, we control the balance of the aft and downward pulls of the sheet by changing the angle the sheet makes at the clew with the genoa car. Moving the car forward increases the downward pull, and decreases twist (do this if the top windward telltale is dipping more than 30 percent of the time while the bottom telltale is just right.) Moving the car back decreases the downward pull and increases twist (do this if the top windward telltale is dipping less than 20 percent of the time while the bottom telltale is just right.) Where to start? Well some sails (like my new Doyle 110, for instance) actually have an arrow pointing at the direction the sheet should take from the clew for a good balance of downward and aft pulls. Without the arrow, I would start with a 45 degree angle of the sheet to the foot of the sail while sailing to windward in lighter winds where I need the full genny. Then I would move it backward or forward until both my lower and upper telltales were flying right. Mark that position, and measure the same position for the other genoa car. Now you have a good set-up for cruising, or to start in a race. You move the cars as conditions vary, tuning the sail to keep the telltales right. Most cruisers will set them and leave them unless there is an obvious problem with the twist of the genny. Finally, you really do need to move the cars forward whenever you reef the genny by rolling the luff onto the roller furler. Our gennies have a second set of telltales to guide this exercise, but you can start with the same angle that works best with the genny all the way out, and then tunning by watching the luff for shaking ("luffing") higher up as the building waves rock the boat. I hope that is clear enough to get you started. There are excellent books of sail trim in the chandlery, and I also have Don's laminated sail trim guides also found there. It's OK to fool around with tuning your rig - it's your boat after all!. It's also OK to get it somewhere near right, and just enjoy the sights and sounds. But I've caught the bug, and will usually stay after the set of my sails until both are pulling as well as I can get them. That is a great part of the joy of the sport for me! David Lady Lillie
Your genny sheet pulls both aft, and down on the clew of the genoa. Set the genoa car for best performance tacking into the wind. Pulling aft changes the angle at which the luff of the lower sail meets the wind (angle of attack.) The objective is to keep the lower telltales streaming back with the near or windward telltale dipping 20 to 30 percent of the time with the action of the waves. Pulling down controls the angle of attack toward the top of the sail, keeping it more in line with the bottom. Actually, the wind blows a little faster higher up, so the apparent wind comes more from the beam on high, and you want to ease the downward pull enough to increase the angle of attack to keep the top telltales behaving like the bottom - both streaming, with the windward (closer) telltale dipping 20 to 30 percent of the time. This higher angle of attack toward the top of the sail is called twist. Since we only have one genny sheet, we control the balance of the aft and downward pulls of the sheet by changing the angle the sheet makes at the clew with the genoa car. Moving the car forward increases the downward pull, and decreases twist (do this if the top windward telltale is dipping more than 30 percent of the time while the bottom telltale is just right.) Moving the car back decreases the downward pull and increases twist (do this if the top windward telltale is dipping less than 20 percent of the time while the bottom telltale is just right.) Where to start? Well some sails (like my new Doyle 110, for instance) actually have an arrow pointing at the direction the sheet should take from the clew for a good balance of downward and aft pulls. Without the arrow, I would start with a 45 degree angle of the sheet to the foot of the sail while sailing to windward in lighter winds where I need the full genny. Then I would move it backward or forward until both my lower and upper telltales were flying right. Mark that position, and measure the same position for the other genoa car. Now you have a good set-up for cruising, or to start in a race. You move the cars as conditions vary, tuning the sail to keep the telltales right. Most cruisers will set them and leave them unless there is an obvious problem with the twist of the genny. Finally, you really do need to move the cars forward whenever you reef the genny by rolling the luff onto the roller furler. Our gennies have a second set of telltales to guide this exercise, but you can start with the same angle that works best with the genny all the way out, and then tunning by watching the luff for shaking ("luffing") higher up as the building waves rock the boat. I hope that is clear enough to get you started. There are excellent books of sail trim in the chandlery, and I also have Don's laminated sail trim guides also found there. It's OK to fool around with tuning your rig - it's your boat after all!. It's also OK to get it somewhere near right, and just enjoy the sights and sounds. But I've caught the bug, and will usually stay after the set of my sails until both are pulling as well as I can get them. That is a great part of the joy of the sport for me! David Lady Lillie
Genoa
Lloyd: The other shipmates have explained the adjustment aspect of the fairlead cars. There is an easy way to check if the car is positioned in the most efficient position. What you do is check the break of the sail from top to bottom during each tack. Notice the break just before you come head to wind. You'll never get it to break completely even from top to bottom but the idea is to get as close as you can. What I mean is suppose your tacking and as you come head to wind and you notice the foot flutters or the bootom telltale breaks first. What that would tell you is that the new car setting on the new side would be slightly aft. Normally, this is really not much of a movement - maybe just a couple of holes. Using this "reading" method will put you very close to the most efficient position. This is easily accomplished if you have the Garhauer adjsutable fairlead system. With a pin type fairlead car, it is not that simple. If you were racing the boat, this adjustment would be made on every tack.
Lloyd: The other shipmates have explained the adjustment aspect of the fairlead cars. There is an easy way to check if the car is positioned in the most efficient position. What you do is check the break of the sail from top to bottom during each tack. Notice the break just before you come head to wind. You'll never get it to break completely even from top to bottom but the idea is to get as close as you can. What I mean is suppose your tacking and as you come head to wind and you notice the foot flutters or the bootom telltale breaks first. What that would tell you is that the new car setting on the new side would be slightly aft. Normally, this is really not much of a movement - maybe just a couple of holes. Using this "reading" method will put you very close to the most efficient position. This is easily accomplished if you have the Garhauer adjsutable fairlead system. With a pin type fairlead car, it is not that simple. If you were racing the boat, this adjustment would be made on every tack.
Dipping or Lifting ??
David - I'm a bit confused about your explanation - I believe that sailing to weather, we should be looking to have the leeward and windward tell tails streaming back, with the windward ones - lifting - 20-30% of the time. All that being said, we can summarize the advice - Have three sets of tell tails, get them all streaming, and, as you luff up to weather (or point too high), the top telltail lifts first, move the car forward. If the bottom telltail lifts first, move the car backward. And the best advice of all: Go give it a try! Have Fun! Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
David - I'm a bit confused about your explanation - I believe that sailing to weather, we should be looking to have the leeward and windward tell tails streaming back, with the windward ones - lifting - 20-30% of the time. All that being said, we can summarize the advice - Have three sets of tell tails, get them all streaming, and, as you luff up to weather (or point too high), the top telltail lifts first, move the car forward. If the bottom telltail lifts first, move the car backward. And the best advice of all: Go give it a try! Have Fun! Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
As a first approximation...
... sight up along the sheet, through the clew of the sail to the luff (forestay). The extended line should intersect the luff 50% of the way up. (You will, of course have to guestimate the 50% point). Move the car to meet this condition, and then make adjustments as described above. Derek
... sight up along the sheet, through the clew of the sail to the luff (forestay). The extended line should intersect the luff 50% of the way up. (You will, of course have to guestimate the 50% point). Move the car to meet this condition, and then make adjustments as described above. Derek
"Thank You" to my Virtual Sailing Buddies..
Wow, Thank you guys for all the good ideas.Your replies were very well written,and made a complicated subject easily understood!I know have a much,much better idea of what I need to do,and I am sure it will make mt sailing that much more enjoyable. LLOYD
Wow, Thank you guys for all the good ideas.Your replies were very well written,and made a complicated subject easily understood!I know have a much,much better idea of what I need to do,and I am sure it will make mt sailing that much more enjoyable. LLOYD
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