I will soon be adding an Entec 4.2 KW generator to our 460. I woudl like to hear from any owners who have this configuration. How well does it work? Are there problems with the output of the inverter? I am led to believe that the charging output will be lower than the 100A which the inverter is capable of. How much lower? Are there any other invereters which will handle this better?? Thanks in advance. ROwen, Mikayla
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
B
Bob Bass
Oh No!
I had an Entec in our last boat and hated it so much that I quit using it the last three years I had the boat. It was nothing but trouble. It is a 3600 rpm diesel and sends high freequency noise through the boat that 1800 rpm diesels do not produce. Also, I would not even consider putting such a small generator in a 460. You have a first class boat so don't put in anything less when choosing a generator.
I had an Entec in our last boat and hated it so much that I quit using it the last three years I had the boat. It was nothing but trouble. It is a 3600 rpm diesel and sends high freequency noise through the boat that 1800 rpm diesels do not produce. Also, I would not even consider putting such a small generator in a 460. You have a first class boat so don't put in anything less when choosing a generator.
B
Bill Hall
Practical Sailor
Check Practical Sailor this past year. They had a review of gensets. Fisher Panda won all categories as I recall. The noise level is very low, perhaps 60 db at 1 m. Your airconditioner is louder than this. The 3.5 might work but this seem small even for the Fisher Panda. Talk to a dealer. They have a web site.
Check Practical Sailor this past year. They had a review of gensets. Fisher Panda won all categories as I recall. The noise level is very low, perhaps 60 db at 1 m. Your airconditioner is louder than this. The 3.5 might work but this seem small even for the Fisher Panda. Talk to a dealer. They have a web site.
R
Richard Owen
Bob Bass - Why??
We have been around the block on this genset thing a few times by now and thought we had settled on a solution. First, we probably wouldn't get one at all except for the fact that the fridge on this boat is 110V and power hungry. Second, the space is quite limited - actually, in retrospect, it would have been best to get it installed at the factory because it seems like a big deal now. Third, we sail in the northern climates so Air conditioning is not required. I can't see the other loads that would require more power. Please enlighten me. ROwen
We have been around the block on this genset thing a few times by now and thought we had settled on a solution. First, we probably wouldn't get one at all except for the fact that the fridge on this boat is 110V and power hungry. Second, the space is quite limited - actually, in retrospect, it would have been best to get it installed at the factory because it seems like a big deal now. Third, we sail in the northern climates so Air conditioning is not required. I can't see the other loads that would require more power. Please enlighten me. ROwen
B
Bradley Cavedo
4.2 kw is not enough
Fisher Panda generator is water cooled, not just the engine but the electricity making part, too. That means it is smaller than the air cooled generators and you can get more power with less noise. Also means it is more expensive but it is worth it. We have a 9 kw Kohler on our P42. Loud and hot. It is more than we really need, but not by much. Some p42s have 8 kw. On the H460 you need 8kw not just for the recharging but for the air conditioning/heat pumps. If you are in northern climate the heat part of the AC system uses just as much current as the cooling part. I understand that on the 460 with these small gensets that there is an automatic switch that permits only one zone to run at the time. On the P42, both zones run at the same time a lot and it would be a real drag if only one zone would run, cooling or heating. The Heart 2000 will use 30 ac amps for charging [the 100 amps you mentioned is DC charging amps]. I forgot the conversion ratio, but a 9 kw generator puts out 50 ac amps, so a 4.2 kw generator would put out less than 25 ac amps. That means your inverter/charger will alway be charging at less than full capacity on genset time. That is not good. My recommendation: get the biggest Fisher Panda that you can fit into that space up to 8 kw. I have no idea what the space will hold. Ive seen it. it is small. I think up to 8kw will fit if installed at factory, and maybe the Panda, since they are smaller will fit as a retro install. It may have to go in without the sound shield box, which I think is standard equipment. Maybe they will cut the price if you cannot use the sound box.
Fisher Panda generator is water cooled, not just the engine but the electricity making part, too. That means it is smaller than the air cooled generators and you can get more power with less noise. Also means it is more expensive but it is worth it. We have a 9 kw Kohler on our P42. Loud and hot. It is more than we really need, but not by much. Some p42s have 8 kw. On the H460 you need 8kw not just for the recharging but for the air conditioning/heat pumps. If you are in northern climate the heat part of the AC system uses just as much current as the cooling part. I understand that on the 460 with these small gensets that there is an automatic switch that permits only one zone to run at the time. On the P42, both zones run at the same time a lot and it would be a real drag if only one zone would run, cooling or heating. The Heart 2000 will use 30 ac amps for charging [the 100 amps you mentioned is DC charging amps]. I forgot the conversion ratio, but a 9 kw generator puts out 50 ac amps, so a 4.2 kw generator would put out less than 25 ac amps. That means your inverter/charger will alway be charging at less than full capacity on genset time. That is not good. My recommendation: get the biggest Fisher Panda that you can fit into that space up to 8 kw. I have no idea what the space will hold. Ive seen it. it is small. I think up to 8kw will fit if installed at factory, and maybe the Panda, since they are smaller will fit as a retro install. It may have to go in without the sound shield box, which I think is standard equipment. Maybe they will cut the price if you cannot use the sound box.
B
Bob Bass
Reply From BB
I took it for granted that you had A/C. In that case, you can certainly get by on less. However, I still recommend not going with Entec and from what I have seen and heard (literally), the Fisher Panda might be the one for you if they make one with enough kw to run your charger and frig at the same time with a little left over so you are not bumping up against the full load all the time. By the way, I also agree with the other posting about the Autohelm 6000/7000 issue. I have the 7000 and would not want anything less powerful for a boat of this weight. I am very happy with the autopilot, though. I ran a 180 mile track coupled with the GPS and almost hit the mark (sea bouy)at the end of the trip. Perfect on the rum (sic) line the whole way with quite a bit of set and drift.
I took it for granted that you had A/C. In that case, you can certainly get by on less. However, I still recommend not going with Entec and from what I have seen and heard (literally), the Fisher Panda might be the one for you if they make one with enough kw to run your charger and frig at the same time with a little left over so you are not bumping up against the full load all the time. By the way, I also agree with the other posting about the Autohelm 6000/7000 issue. I have the 7000 and would not want anything less powerful for a boat of this weight. I am very happy with the autopilot, though. I ran a 180 mile track coupled with the GPS and almost hit the mark (sea bouy)at the end of the trip. Perfect on the rum (sic) line the whole way with quite a bit of set and drift.
M
Mark Johnson
460 Generator
I have the factory installed 8KW Northern lights on my 460. I think it is a bit undersized. I think 9 or 10KW would be a better choice. The comment that Brad made about both the AC units running at the same time is not correct. Both of the AC units will run at the same time. The relay switch prevents them from both starting exactly at the same time. I cannot run both AC units, battery charger, hot water heater. and refrigeration without overloading the generator. Forget about the microwave while all that other stuff is on. Mark Johnson S/V Anthem
I have the factory installed 8KW Northern lights on my 460. I think it is a bit undersized. I think 9 or 10KW would be a better choice. The comment that Brad made about both the AC units running at the same time is not correct. Both of the AC units will run at the same time. The relay switch prevents them from both starting exactly at the same time. I cannot run both AC units, battery charger, hot water heater. and refrigeration without overloading the generator. Forget about the microwave while all that other stuff is on. Mark Johnson S/V Anthem
J
Jeff Walker/Carol Donovan
A Good Word for Entec
We had the Entec 4.2 installed on our 410 and we have had no problems so far. The unit puts out approx. 96 amps which in our case will heat the water, charge 3 4D batteries, and run our microwave with no problems whatsoever. In Southern California we rearly need the air conditioner/heater running at the same time as the other power hogs which is why 4.2 seems to be enough for us. The unit is water cooled, very quiet, uses very little fuel, and came within a noise insulation box that mounts in the aft storage locker. Jeff and Carol s/v Twilight
We had the Entec 4.2 installed on our 410 and we have had no problems so far. The unit puts out approx. 96 amps which in our case will heat the water, charge 3 4D batteries, and run our microwave with no problems whatsoever. In Southern California we rearly need the air conditioner/heater running at the same time as the other power hogs which is why 4.2 seems to be enough for us. The unit is water cooled, very quiet, uses very little fuel, and came within a noise insulation box that mounts in the aft storage locker. Jeff and Carol s/v Twilight
R
Richard Owen
To Jeff/Carol re 410 generator
Thanks for the reply about generators. Do you have a Heart Inverter? If so, what size is it and what is the charging rate that you get to the batteries through the generator? (assuming no other loads) ROwen, Mikayla
Thanks for the reply about generators. Do you have a Heart Inverter? If so, what size is it and what is the charging rate that you get to the batteries through the generator? (assuming no other loads) ROwen, Mikayla
J
Jeff Walker/Carol Donovan
Info on our Entec Genset
Richard, We have a Heart Freedom 20 (2000 watts) inverter running through a Link 10 monitor. With 450 amp-hours worth of battery power (225 amp-hours @ 50% capacity), we can effectively re-charge from 50% to 85% in about 2.4 hours in the bulk charge rate getting 96 amps from the Entec. In practice, we find that after 2 full days at anchor, a 1 hour run in the morning while we make coffee and heat the water is enough charge to keep us going and the neighbors appreciate the quiet. To be more efficient, we have just mounted (2) 75 watt solar panels that do a nice job of topping off the batteries and help keep up with the DC refrig. draw during the day. Hope this helps and please feel free to e-mail us at twilightrb@aol.com. Fair winds, Jeff
Richard, We have a Heart Freedom 20 (2000 watts) inverter running through a Link 10 monitor. With 450 amp-hours worth of battery power (225 amp-hours @ 50% capacity), we can effectively re-charge from 50% to 85% in about 2.4 hours in the bulk charge rate getting 96 amps from the Entec. In practice, we find that after 2 full days at anchor, a 1 hour run in the morning while we make coffee and heat the water is enough charge to keep us going and the neighbors appreciate the quiet. To be more efficient, we have just mounted (2) 75 watt solar panels that do a nice job of topping off the batteries and help keep up with the DC refrig. draw during the day. Hope this helps and please feel free to e-mail us at twilightrb@aol.com. Fair winds, Jeff
- Status
- Not open for further replies.