Generator Relay Switch?

seadaddler · Jun 7, 2012

Gen

My 2007 H-36 with 4200 Fisher Panda has the tranfer switch and think that there is 2 white boxes mounted in the stern and no have not had to replace.
Nick

PERCHER · Jun 7, 2012

Re: Gen

I have the same setup on my 45CC. When I selected Generator, the relays would start to chatter. I contacted Ultra Panel in Miami and they sent me 2 new relays, $120 cash up front. No joy. I asked our local Hunter dealer, Tidewater Marine in Havre de Grace, to look into the problem. They were unable to resolve so suggested we send the panels to Ultra Panel. Panel were sent down and repaired, $450 again. Still no joy. We decided to replace all the panels with new ones, unfortunately from Ultra Panel. These are the current panels used on new boats. Cost $2500 plus installation. Now everything works. The original panels were very poorly constructed. When we go the old ones back you could see where the soldered connections were poorly done.
Sorry I don't have better news.

Slipin Away · Jun 8, 2012

Solution to faulty relays

I have had numerous and severe problems relating to the Ultra Panel installed on my 06 45cc. The system is overly complex and designed to automatically switch from generator to shore power. My solution was to install a manual switch that I can go from shore to generator bypassing the generator switch on the panel by the nav station. I bought the switch from Blue Seas and mounted it on the port side cabinet where the CO alarm is located. I relocated the CO monitor slightly. Attached (hopefully) is the wiring diagram for the modification. I was physically able to remove many of the components in the Ultra box and greatly simplify the system at the cost of just the new switch.

Slipin Away · Jun 8, 2012

The switch I used is a 2 position (9009). See attachment. This switches only the 115volt input from either shore or generator. The inverter is powered by generator when in operation and is controlled by the xantrex panel located by the chart table when needed. When on shore power or generator power the inverter is not needed. I see no need for a 3 position switch. The wiring is not too complex, a lot of what you see is already there. mostly it is just the wires off the switch along with a few other changes. I would be most cautious continuing with the system you have. I replaced coils, and relays as well. On one instance there was a short in the system that caused arching and smoke inside the box; I am glad I was aboard. That what convinced me to change over. With the new system you do not need the generator switch on the panel. Check out "owners mods" for other upgrades you might find interesting. Good Luck

Stu Jackson · Jun 8, 2012

Slippinaway seems to have a reasonable solution. Remember, relays are simply remote switches, which, in other words, could simply be stated as something else to go wrong. By doing a manual switch to a relay, which could just as well be done with a simpler switch, you perform the same functions without the complexity and cost. $2500?? Yikes.

Here's another example: We have a Freedom 15 combined inverter/charger, with an automatic relay inside that senses when shorepower is available. One of the myriad installation options is to provide a second A.C. panel, so that if, for instance, you have your hot water heater on, you can segregate the loads to avoid running the heater when you switch to inverter power. I chose to keep it simple and have all our A.C. loads connected when we switch to invert. However, I simply have to remember to turn off the heater manually when we switch. To avoid brain fade, we never leave the heater on except for the 15 minutes or so that we need it to heat hot water at the dock anyway, so it's not a big issue for us. The heater switch is almost always OFF. Others, OTOH, have difficulty (why I won't understand, but it's a reality) in dealing with switches. Must be like my kid who leaves all the rooms with the lights on. Now I finally understand what my parents were telling me all those years ago!

PERCHER · Jun 8, 2012

If I had known about installing the Blue Sea switch, I would have gone that way. If you can stay away from Ultra Panel do so. They are very difficult to deal with and take no responsibility for their panels. Unfortunately they make the panels for Hunter. I do have the part numbers for the relays but I am not at my boat and won't be for over a month. I suggest doing the manual Blue Sea switch even if you have to hire an electrician to install.

artboas · Jun 9, 2012

Re: Solution to faulty relays

What program did you use to draft this schematic?
It's nicely done!
I have a 49, which is similar on the AC side.
Wondering if I could import your file do I could modify?
a.boas@rogers.com

artboas · Jun 9, 2012

Jeff, don't believe this will work

Jeff Jellick said:
Slipin Away,
Thanks for the reply. I am also considering using a AC Rotary Switch from Blue Sea, I am looking at their PN 8366 AC Rotary Switch, 3-positions + Off. That way I could select, 1) Shore Power, 2) Generator, and 3) Inverter Power. I am assuming once I have the new switch installed and wired, I will no longer need / use the small "Generator" rocker switch on the Hunter Panel. I did get the wiring diagram that you sent, but not being an electrician, I will probably get some help with the install. Is your switch 2 or 3 positions, if 2, how do you handle using your inverter power? Will probably try a new relay if I can ever get one, while waiting to order / install the switch.

Thanks,
Jeff

On the Xantrex, there is an internal transfer switch which either passes through the shore AC, or generates AC, and feeds it into the branch circuit.
On your boat, you have 2 AC inlets. One inlet powers the airco loads, and the other line powers outlets, etc.
This outlet circuit is where the Xantrex is wired into.
So, when you are either on shore or gen, that lege runs through the inverter.
If you are plugged into shore, the inverter doesn't run, as there is AC present at the Xantrex input.
Only once you remove the shore AC, can you activate the inverter.
Same as generator.
Once you turn on the gen, the Xantex sees power at the input, and will only act as a transfer switch.

Btw, I see a lot of people are unhappy with Ultra panel
2 things I should mention.:
I have a 49 with their boxes, and they did a pretty decent job. Yes, I've seen some of their earlier work, and it wasn't great.
Secondly, the on-board Hunter wiring is top notch.
I know that the original Ultra panels had soldered in relays, which were very unreliable. Hunter switched over to Stancor relays, (instead if Potter & Brumfield), and they are much better.
BTW, if you want to see scary AC wiring, drop the panel on a Beneteau

Stu Jackson · Jun 10, 2012

Jeff, that 2 position AC or generator switch is exactly the same function: AC or inverter. Think about it: only ONE of the two incoming sources can be active at ONE time. Simple. I'll bet if you trace your wiring by opening the panel (and you should get good at that - I was overwhelmed when i first started on our boat, but started labeling wires and drawing wiring diagrams over time it started to be come a LOT clearer - we're not born as electricians after all

)), you'll start to get a lot more fmailiar with what you have and what your choices are.

Thanks for the kind words, and we're all gad we could help.

Good luck,

Stu

Stu Jackson · Jun 11, 2012

Jeff, I was just responding to the type of switch. Didn't realize you had all three, which would lead to suggesting the Blue Sea switch with three inputs and one output.

Stu Jackson · Jun 11, 2012

Jeff, isn't that three incoming potential sources of A.C. power? Gen set, Shorepower and I/C. Not more than one can be on at the same time. Depending on how you wired it, the Freedom has its own internal transfer switch.

Generator Relay Switch?

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