Gelcoat flaking off - how to fix

[GMS.Homer]

Hello,
Just joined to get some expert assistance with my gelcoat issue.
Boat is a 1987 Catalina 22 and I have gelcoat flaking on the stern and multiple crack as well.
I'll post some pics.
My understanding is I need to remove all the hardware and grind this down to bare fiberglass.
At that point do I need to add a few layers of epoxy and then paint with a 2 part paint? Or do I need to add a layer or 2 of cloth then paint?

thanks for the help!
Greg

 

[Jacktar]

Check inside for cracks coming thru as may have been caused by an impact.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I neglected to say "Welcome to the site in my previous post".

I've got to admit, I can't get your pictures out of my mind, particularly the first one. As posted above, I'm suspicious of what's behind the gel coat. Could you please scour that area of all dirt and let it completely dry and then photo again ? Thanks.

 

[GMS.Homer]

Thanks for the Welcome!
When I get a chance, I'll see if I can get a better picture of that first one. I can take a putty knife and break off that gelcoat and clean up what is behind it.
For as long as I've owned our boat, she has only been in fresh water. I'm not aware of any impact to that area of the transom either.

 

[...3TacksontheWater]

It looks like you're showing us just the starboard stern by the ladder attachment point. Just how extensive is the area that's blistering? I'm attaching a picture of a late 80's C-25 that I really wanted to buy but took a pass at due to gelcoat condition. My understanding was that the early 80's gelcoat issues were resolved but the boat I looked at and your 1987 C-22 say the issue can still come up. This is a thread that talks about gelcoat repair and CloudDiver chimes in with a link to his very informative thread but that link is broken.

Repairing LARGE blisters

I found some, what I consider, large blisters on the bottom of my Catalina 22. It was fabricated in 78 and had been in the water at least 4 years before I got it. Paint is still good on the bottom. I have about 4-5 blisters that, after grinding, are anywhere from a pie plate to a turkey...

forums.sailboatowners.com

I encourage you to search the forum for his repair thread as it was extensive. I hope this helps.

George

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I've got to confess, I've never seen gel coat come away like that in addition to the OP's post #1. It just seems it doesn't want to stick anymore. Probably due to a lack of good chemistry 36 years ago.

I'd be worried the problem exists over the entire hull which, I am hoping is not the case. Best of luck with this.

 

[GMS.Homer]

Seems to be just the stern/transom area. the side don't have this. Other than being dirty, the rest of the hull look OK.

 

[LakeShark]

Why not just sand off the gelcoat, prep the glass and reshoot the gelcoat?

If you remove the gelcoat and try to build it up with epoxy or something you'll have uneven wear when you wax or polish the boat and have paint that will need maintenance just on the stern unless your planning to paint the whole boat that is.

 

[GMS.Homer]

from some reading, you can't/shouldn't put getcoat over epoxy. they are different resins???
I was thinking about a 2 part epoxy paint just for this area. I know the shades won't match the rest of the boat.

 

[LakeShark]

from some reading, you can't/shouldn't put getcoat over epoxy. they are different resins???

I know there are different types of gelcoat and resins and they need to match to be compatible. Given the large scope of work your in for I would likely try to go back to gelcoat after sanding, fairing, and fixing whatever the underlying problem is. It appears that there is moisture under the gelcoat causing it to lift but I'm no expert there. I would likely call a yard and get some professional opinions even if you choose to do it yourself.

good news is that gelcoat cracking is cosmetic so your not dealing with major structural failure.

 

[LakeShark]

@GMS.Homer I would contact the sailing club over on Lake Lanier. There is a large racing fleet of Catalina 22s in that area and they will know how best to direct. Most of the racers have torn their boats completely down and built them back up again so there a wealth of information and Dennis is a national champion so a good person to contact in your region either way.

https://www.catalina22.org/index.php/regions-and-fleets/204-fleets-in-region-3

 

[...3TacksontheWater]

FWIW, in August of 22, I took pictures of that C-25 to the local marina and the quote to do the repair was $2,500.00 which I thought was reasonable considering that this repair is way above my pay grade. GMS.Homer, it’s sailing season for many still so, the technical replies may be slow in coming.

George

 

[Any Sea]

GMS Homer-
It sounds like you have some comfort level working with resins etc. Its been my experience that the base resin type determines the bond compatibility for repairs (i.e., polyester resins bond to boats made with polyester). The gelcoat needs to be removed to facilitate the bond. I also understand that epoxy based resins bond well to everything. It seems the repair process is going to be driven by the hull condition under the cracked gelcoat. To LakeShark's point, it looks like its structurally sound. If the fiberglass cloth is exposed, I would imagine that you will be coating it with fresh resin (probably epoxy), maybe some added cloth, fairing it smooth, and then protecting it. You can get gelcoat for that, of course gelcoat is not water proof. Several barrier coats, couple top coats a two part paint with bottom paint below the water line may be easier.

 

[GMS.Homer]

@Any Sea I've done a small repair to my rudder - it had a crack and wet, rotted wood. But that has been extent of my experience.
What you are suggesting is what I've gathered from all my research. I came here to see if the hive mind would agree of have other suggestions.
Several members of my Sail Club have offered there help.
I've never removed any of the hardware before, so I'm concerned with getting it all re-mounted an sealed again.
Do you have a suggestion on a good two part paint to cover this with. I know the shade won't match the rest of the boat, but that is just a cosmetic issue.
Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[LakeShark]

@Any Sea
Several members of my Sail Club have offered there help.
I've never removed any of the hardware before, so I'm concerned with getting it all re-mounted an sealed again.
Thanks for the suggestions!

Do not just remove the bolts for the rudder gaugeons! They are threaded into brass plates in the hull. If the plate falls you'll need to cut the "hole of shame" in your cockpit. Use threaded rod to hold the plates. Remove the 2 outer bolts, install the threaded rod, then remove the inner bolts. work around the threaded rods. Sometime the lower plate is accessible from inside but the upper one is the largest concern. Ladder and motor mounting hardware should be accessible but I would check first.

 

[Any Sea]

@Any Sea I've done a small repair to my rudder - it had a crack and wet, rotted wood. But that has been extent of my experience.
What you are suggesting is what I've gathered from all my research. I came here to see if the hive mind would agree of have other suggestions.
Several members of my Sail Club have offered there help.
I've never removed any of the hardware before, so I'm concerned with getting it all re-mounted an sealed again.
Do you have a suggestion on a good two part paint to cover this with. I know the shade won't match the rest of the boat, but that is just a cosmetic issue.
Thanks for the suggestions!

LakeShark is right about that upper bracket. I heeded that advice and did to have to cut the access port.

GMS.Homer,
Read that whole thread with the CloudDiver reference. Hawk232 makes some very good points. I’ve read every entry in the CloudDiver thread. He’s a great craftsman and he documented many excellent repairs. I suspect he enjoyed the boat work more than the sailing. He worked on his boat for two years and sold it nearly finished and he never sailed it.

There are several on-line references you can use to learn how to do this. This West System User Manual (User Manual & Product Guide | WEST SYSTEM Epoxy) is good and many in this forum like the products.

When I was starting down the road of reconditioning my boat, I read from reputable sources, bought some product, and tried my hand at the new skills on small projects with minimum risk (I epoxy coated new crib boards before I tackled re-finishing the keel). These are fun boats with a big following and lots of resources for parts. They are not fast boats and carry no value as vintage/collector boats. It would be very easy to spend way more than the boat is worth on repairs or improvements.

I liked Petit products when I finally did the keel and bottom. Their tech line was very patient and helpful with my in-experienced questions. Good luck and have fun with it.

 

[pclarksurf]

To some earlier points on whether you can safely gel coat on top of epoxy resin (and to a larger extent can you overcoat polyester resin (our old boats version ) glass with epoxy resins). The answer is yes. Many reputable and professional examples of the same out there-- the short answer is I wouldn't reverse the order. Polyester resins have unique properties and should be carefully considered before overcoating epoxy resins.

@GMS.Homer classic gel coat stress cracks--and yes, I would grind the affected gel coat back to clean glass (let's assume the glass is in good structural shape), fill and fair with epoxy and either Paint or re gel coat.

Mechanically straight forward, albeit some elbow grease decisions to make.