Garmin 640 vs. 78sc

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yammy

.
Aug 16, 2010
72
Hello, Macgregor-ers

Between the two portable GPS: Garmin 640 and 78sc, I am debating which one to buy. I like almost everything on the Garmin 78sc especially it runs on AA batteries, but its screen is too small. The Garmin 640's screen is large but many reviews on this unit were negative.

Which one would you choose if you were thinking of buying a portable GPS, and why?

Kenneth on Blessed
 

Faris

.
Apr 20, 2011
232
Catalina 27 San Juan Islands
Of those two, the 78sc for sure. But, keep in mind that I don't like too many features in a single electronic device for boats or planes. It's the whole single point of failure thing. So, my GPS preference leans toward the barebones (just coordinates, direction, and speed).

With that said, the reason I would take the 78 over the 640 is that I can't find anything in the 640 that the 78 doesn't have that is worth $250 (the difference in price). I like a GPS device to be hooked into DSC and an autopilot. If you are not going to do either of these, then the convenience of the handheld seems to put even a bigger value gap between the two.

If the big screen is worth $250 to you, then it may be worth it. Touchscreens on marine GPSs have always been disappointing to me since they can be problematic if splashed. Also, bouncing around in big waves, particularly with cold hands, it can sometimes be difficult to touch exactly where you wanted to touch. I like the confidence of a button system.
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
I'm wondering why a handheld? Do you want to use it outside the boat?

In that price range I would get the Garmin 441S....



...with a transducer....

http://www.thegpsstore.com/Garmin-G...lotter-and-Sounder-with-Transducer-P2170.aspx

... for $499 and then you would have a larger screen, and depth and it also comes pre-loaded with the coastal charts.

Faris also made good points. We use a Garmin map 76S in the cockpit and bought a second one for redundancy for under $100 on e-bay. Our main chartplotter though is on a dedicated ship's computer and its monitor....



http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-navigation/Compter-Nav-index.html

...and it is tied to the handheld in the cockpit at all times for instant updates to the trips waypoints if we change them on the fly.

Good luck,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links
 

yammy

.
Aug 16, 2010
72
thank you, Faris. i agree with you. also, after doing a bit more thinking, i learned the idea of powering the unit with AA batteries would give me more confidence so i went ahead and ordered a Garmin 78sc. will use it for my first dry land to dry land trip end of this month. :)
Of those two, the 78sc for sure. But, keep in mind that I don't like too many features in a single electronic device for boats or planes. It's the whole single point of failure thing. So, my GPS preference leans toward the barebones (just coordinates, direction, and speed).

With that said, the reason I would take the 78 over the 640 is that I can't find anything in the 640 that the 78 doesn't have that is worth $250 (the difference in price). I like a GPS device to be hooked into DSC and an autopilot. If you are not going to do either of these, then the convenience of the handheld seems to put even a bigger value gap between the two.

If the big screen is worth $250 to you, then it may be worth it. Touchscreens on marine GPSs have always been disappointing to me since they can be problematic if splashed. Also, bouncing around in big waves, particularly with cold hands, it can sometimes be difficult to touch exactly where you wanted to touch. I like the confidence of a button system.
 

yammy

.
Aug 16, 2010
72
thank you, Sumner. as for your question, i chose handheld GPS (and handheld marine radio) because i think these will eventually become my back-up units when/IF i get a bigger used boat (probably quite a while from now), which may come with installed GPS and marine radio. i also question the state of my boat's 12V battery and am a bit reluctant to rely on it for powering units like these ones. i planned to install a solar panel on my boat this month; i'm excited :)
I'm wondering why a handheld? Do you want to use it outside the boat?

In that price range I would get the Garmin 441S....



...with a transducer....

http://www.thegpsstore.com/Garmin-G...lotter-and-Sounder-with-Transducer-P2170.aspx

... for $499 and then you would have a larger screen, and depth and it also comes pre-loaded with the coastal charts.

Faris also made good points. We use a Garmin map 76S in the cockpit and bought a second one for redundancy for under $100 on e-bay. Our main chartplotter though is on a dedicated ship's computer and its monitor....



http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-navigation/Compter-Nav-index.html

...and it is tied to the handheld in the cockpit at all times for instant updates to the trips waypoints if we change them on the fly.

Good luck,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links
 

yammy

.
Aug 16, 2010
72
hello Faris, this is too coincidental just this past weekend i went to Blaine to check the place out before my planned trip to Semiahmoo at the end of this month; so, yes, i was there! were you there too? :)
You should come over to Blaine this weekend for Drayton Harbor Days.
 

Faris

.
Apr 20, 2011
232
Catalina 27 San Juan Islands
Yup, we were out and about. Mostly just cleaning the boat and doing some minor fiberglass repairs on Saturday. Decided to go for a sail on Sunday which was pretty decent. Winds were pleasant and it was kind of cool to sail with the tall ships with their cannon fire and such.
 

yammy

.
Aug 16, 2010
72
haha...ya, i saw those tall ships as well. pretty cool.

by the way, Semiahmoo was my first dry land to dry land destination for the end of this month; but after visiting the Port of Bellignham and Semiahmoo Marina, i learned that the depth of the water there was very shallow. some areas only got 2-5 feet, meaning i would definitely have to raise the keel when entering.

one thing i could not comprehend was i saw a fair amount of keelboats docked at both marinas. how could that be? did i read the chart incorrectly? if i were to go to Semiahmoo for sure, are there tips (i.e. things i shall be aware of, etc.) you could share with me?
Yup, we were out and about. Mostly just cleaning the boat and doing some minor fiberglass repairs on Saturday. Decided to go for a sail on Sunday which was pretty decent. Winds were pleasant and it was kind of cool to sail with the tall ships with their cannon fire and such.
 

Faris

.
Apr 20, 2011
232
Catalina 27 San Juan Islands
Probably you were reading depth in fathoms (i.e. 6 feet). It is plenty deep everywhere, provided you don't stray too far out of the main channel. There is shoal to the left and right of the marked channel, but you kind of have to go sightseeing to run into it.

There is one thing that gets a lot of people. Look on the chart. You'll see the green buoy that you don't want to stray too far north of. This is pretty clear. However, immediately across from it, there is another red marker which many people mistake for the red buoy a ways to the ESE. You want to stay between the red and green buoys, as they mark the channel. Sometimes people get confused thinking the pylon with a bright red marker is the red buoy they need to stay north of. The red buoy is comparatively hard to spot, so people frequently go north/west of the pylon, but south/east of the red buoy. These people get stuck in eel grass or worse. I don't know if you get the Northern Light (newspaper), but there was a picture on the front page of a sailboat that made that mistake several weeks ago.

I know about this because I too made the mistake. Coming from the south, the red buoy seems too far west, so having spotted the pylon, one tends to not look all the way out to the west where the buoy is. Fortunately, I just bogged down in grass and easily freed the keel, but the lesson was learned.

Anyway, from your direction it is no big deal unless you decide to swing around to the south and come up from Birch Point. Then, just keep an eye out for that. In front of Semiahmoo Resort, the shoal runs farther out than you would think.

You should have SW winds, as these are prevailing this time of year. So, it should be a direct shot. And, of course, you can see your destination the whole time. It's a little tricky to spot the exact entrance into Drayton Harbor, but just shoot for where you think it is in the distance, and as you get close, stay between the buoys. By the time you get to the buoys, you'll see the entrance. If you're nervous about it, try to plan your entrance near slack tide because it can get pretty brisk through there.

Listen for the sound of a ship's horn as you enter the harbor. The Plover Ferry, as you probably know, runs foot traffic between Blaine and the spit every 30 minutes or so. They sound their horn when entering/exiting the breakwater. The captain is very friendly and won't run into you or anything, but that's what that sound usually means.

One more thing, if you arrive during decent winds (say 10 kts or so), consider going to Blaine instead. It is MUCH better protected, and you'lll have an easier time of it if winds are high. Their guest dock is much nicer too, with PLENTY of room to maneuver.

To get there, just turn left into the gap in the breakwater (between the two concrete walls). Proceed along the breakwater past the commercial vessels and you'll see some conspicuous shoal markers to your right along the breakwater. Immediately after these markers, turn left toward the flag and main office. It is really wide here. Guest and visitor moorage is all along the left. Just tie up anywhere along here and go check in at the main office.

There's a good chance I'll be there as well - over on the A dock - almost at the end closest to the main office. I'm out cruising right now, but I've got to get back to do a few maintenance tasks before sailing back down to Seattle in a few weeks.

Best of luck with the trek! Have fun.
 

yammy

.
Aug 16, 2010
72
this is very useful. thank you, Faris! sounds like i may keep Semiahoo as my first dry-land-to-dry-land destination on the 25th and 26th of this month. hope we could say hi in-person. by the way, the name of my boat is 'Blessed'. :)
Probably you were reading depth in fathoms (i.e. 6 feet). It is plenty deep everywhere, provided you don't stray too far out of the main channel. There is shoal to the left and right of the marked channel, but you kind of have to go sightseeing to run into it.

There is one thing that gets a lot of people. Look on the chart. You'll see the green buoy that you don't want to stray too far north of. This is pretty clear. However, immediately across from it, there is another red marker which many people mistake for the red buoy a ways to the ESE. You want to stay between the red and green buoys, as they mark the channel. Sometimes people get confused thinking the pylon with a bright red marker is the red buoy they need to stay north of. The red buoy is comparatively hard to spot, so people frequently go north/west of the pylon, but south/east of the red buoy. These people get stuck in eel grass or worse. I don't know if you get the Northern Light (newspaper), but there was a picture on the front page of a sailboat that made that mistake several weeks ago.

I know about this because I too made the mistake. Coming from the south, the red buoy seems too far west, so having spotted the pylon, one tends to not look all the way out to the west where the buoy is. Fortunately, I just bogged down in grass and easily freed the keel, but the lesson was learned.

Anyway, from your direction it is no big deal unless you decide to swing around to the south and come up from Birch Point. Then, just keep an eye out for that. In front of Semiahmoo Resort, the shoal runs farther out than you would think.

You should have SW winds, as these are prevailing this time of year. So, it should be a direct shot. And, of course, you can see your destination the whole time. It's a little tricky to spot the exact entrance into Drayton Harbor, but just shoot for where you think it is in the distance, and as you get close, stay between the buoys. By the time you get to the buoys, you'll see the entrance. If you're nervous about it, try to plan your entrance near slack tide because it can get pretty brisk through there.

Listen for the sound of a ship's horn as you enter the harbor. The Plover Ferry, as you probably know, runs foot traffic between Blaine and the spit every 30 minutes or so. They sound their horn when entering/exiting the breakwater. The captain is very friendly and won't run into you or anything, but that's what that sound usually means.

One more thing, if you arrive during decent winds (say 10 kts or so), consider going to Blaine instead. It is MUCH better protected, and you'lll have an easier time of it if winds are high. Their guest dock is much nicer too, with PLENTY of room to maneuver.

To get there, just turn left into the gap in the breakwater (between the two concrete walls). Proceed along the breakwater past the commercial vessels and you'll see some conspicuous shoal markers to your right along the breakwater. Immediately after these markers, turn left toward the flag and main office. It is really wide here. Guest and visitor moorage is all along the left. Just tie up anywhere along here and go check in at the main office.

There's a good chance I'll be there as well - over on the A dock - almost at the end closest to the main office. I'm out cruising right now, but I've got to get back to do a few maintenance tasks before sailing back down to Seattle in a few weeks.

Best of luck with the trek! Have fun.
 

Faris

.
Apr 20, 2011
232
Catalina 27 San Juan Islands
Almost made it over to your marina yesterday. Took some friends out for a quick sail. Winds were perfect, about 15 kts, and seas weren't bad at about 2-3 feet for the most part. Half of the passengers got seasick so we had to turn back about a mile from Point Bob. Landlubbers ...
 

yammy

.
Aug 16, 2010
72
hahahahahahaha...Landlubbers

guess what, i just called to reserve a guest slip at the Semiahmoo Marina for this thursday evening. if all things go according to plan, i will be at your marina in three days. Go-Dry-Land-to-Dry-Land-Sailing (for the first time)!!! :D

Quick question: I read http://www.dairiki.org/tides/daily.php/bln/2011-08-25, and planned to 'try' to arrive to the Semiahmoo Marina between 4pm and 6.30pm this thursday. what do you think?
Almost made it over to your marina yesterday. Took some friends out for a quick sail. Winds were perfect, about 15 kts, and seas weren't bad at about 2-3 feet for the most part. Half of the passengers got seasick so we had to turn back about a mile from Point Bob. Landlubbers ...
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
...Quick question: I read http://www.dairiki.org/tides/daily.php/bln/2011-08-25, and planned to 'try' to arrive to the Semiahmoo Marina between 4pm and 6.30pm this thursday. what do you think?
That is a pretty neat link. Do you also have a GPS on board that can give you the tide. We have 2 Garmin Map 76S's aboard. One is a backup and we got it for under $100 on e-bay. I used the heck out of it planning in Florida with the tides there and they were nowhere as great as what you guys get up there. I think 3 1/2 feet was the extreme. Still the water is so shallow down there everywhere that 2-3 feet can make a big difference.

I would want either a tide table book or a GPS on board on any trip where there are tides just in case plans changed.

Be sure and take pictures and post them. I was in the Navy up there and it is a beautiful area. Also of course be safe and have fun,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links
 

Faris

.
Apr 20, 2011
232
Catalina 27 San Juan Islands
That time frame shouldn't cause any problems. Tide doesn't often become a major issue in Semiahmoo/Boundary Bay. Current can sometimes pick up through the entrance to Drayton Harbor, but rarely too bad. It'll be less than a knot during that time.

As you start to venture out, I'd recommend a good reference for tidal currents since this is difficult to predict using tide tables alone without a good amount of local knowledge. Even then it can be a bit of a black art. For example, the current tends to flow in a big counter-clockwise circle around the south end of Georgia Strait (Point Roberts -> Saturna -> Sucia -> Birch Point -> Point Roberts). This flattens out and flows south or north sometimes, and occasionally reverses to a clockwise direction. This is information that you can't get from a tide table, but which is very important when choosing a route.

There is a decent web site that can be helpful: http://www.deepzoom.com/#/Views/Boat.xaml. This shows the direction and speed of projected currents at specific locations. This helps plan the best time to go past certain points, but can be very misleading because it only makes predictions at specific points. One might be lead to believe that if the current is flowing north at a point on one side of a strait, that the current would be flowing north throughout the strait, for example. This is rarely the case except in narrow channels.

A great reference, and one I don't leave the bay without is a publication put out by the Canadian government called "Current Atlas: Juan de Fuca Strait to Strait of Georgia". Here it is at Fisheries Supply in Seattle, but you can find it all over the place: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/productgroupdetail.aspx?cid=130709&keywords=current+atlas. I think West Marine in Blaine sells it. It contains a bunch of charts showing the direction and speed of currents all over, not just at specific points. Each year you buy a supplement booklet that correlates a chart number with a date/time. Very easy to use and invaluable.

Check out the attached picture of one of the charts. You'll see what I mean. There is a big counter-clockwise current south, but a clockwise current up in the bay. Look at the currents NE of Orcas and SW of San Juan. This is why tide tables don't cut it in our neighborhood.
 

Attachments

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
.....
A great reference, and one I don't leave the bay without is a publication put out by the Canadian government called "Current Atlas: Juan de Fuca Strait to Strait of Georgia". Here it is at Fisheries Supply in Seattle, but you can find it all over the place: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/productgroupdetail.aspx?cid=130709&keywords=current+atlas......
Good link and something that I would have if we ever sail up there, thanks.

..... This is why tide tables don't cut it in our neighborhood.
So you aren't concerned with water depth underway or anchored??

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links
 

Faris

.
Apr 20, 2011
232
Catalina 27 San Juan Islands
So you aren't concerned with water depth underway or anchored??
Yeah, I'm just saying that tide tables aren't enough. You also need detailed current projections. I can't tell you how many times I've fought my way out of the bay during what should have been an ebb tide. But yes, when depths fluctuate by more than 12 feet routinely, this is definitely a concern when anchoring. Not so much underway. I just don't tempt fate by sailing near any sounding of less than about 5 fathoms unless I know the tides and am sure I know where I am.
 

yammy

.
Aug 16, 2010
72
thank you very much, Faris! i will pick that publication up tomorrow.
That time frame shouldn't cause any problems. Tide doesn't often become a major issue in Semiahmoo/Boundary Bay. Current can sometimes pick up through the entrance to Drayton Harbor, but rarely too bad. It'll be less than a knot during that time.

As you start to venture out, I'd recommend a good reference for tidal currents since this is difficult to predict using tide tables alone without a good amount of local knowledge. Even then it can be a bit of a black art. For example, the current tends to flow in a big counter-clockwise circle around the south end of Georgia Strait (Point Roberts -> Saturna -> Sucia -> Birch Point -> Point Roberts). This flattens out and flows south or north sometimes, and occasionally reverses to a clockwise direction. This is information that you can't get from a tide table, but which is very important when choosing a route.

There is a decent web site that can be helpful: http://www.deepzoom.com/#/Views/Boat.xaml. This shows the direction and speed of projected currents at specific locations. This helps plan the best time to go past certain points, but can be very misleading because it only makes predictions at specific points. One might be lead to believe that if the current is flowing north at a point on one side of a strait, that the current would be flowing north throughout the strait, for example. This is rarely the case except in narrow channels.

A great reference, and one I don't leave the bay without is a publication put out by the Canadian government called "Current Atlas: Juan de Fuca Strait to Strait of Georgia". Here it is at Fisheries Supply in Seattle, but you can find it all over the place: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/productgroupdetail.aspx?cid=130709&keywords=current+atlas. I think West Marine in Blaine sells it. It contains a bunch of charts showing the direction and speed of currents all over, not just at specific points. Each year you buy a supplement booklet that correlates a chart number with a date/time. Very easy to use and invaluable.

Check out the attached picture of one of the charts. You'll see what I mean. There is a big counter-clockwise current south, but a clockwise current up in the bay. Look at the currents NE of Orcas and SW of San Juan. This is why tide tables don't cut it in our neighborhood.
 

yammy

.
Aug 16, 2010
72
hello, Sumner

i will be using my one and only GPS:Garmin 78sc for my trip to Semiahmoo (which got a Canada g2 chip in it as well). i shall read the manual tonight, as i did not know it got information on tides. :confused:

did you say 3 1/2 feet at where i'm heading this thursday?
That is a pretty neat link. Do you also have a GPS on board that can give you the tide. We have 2 Garmin Map 76S's aboard. One is a backup and we got it for under $100 on e-bay. I used the heck out of it planning in Florida with the tides there and they were nowhere as great as what you guys get up there. I think 3 1/2 feet was the extreme. Still the water is so shallow down there everywhere that 2-3 feet can make a big difference.

I would want either a tide table book or a GPS on board on any trip where there are tides just in case plans changed.

Be sure and take pictures and post them. I was in the Navy up there and it is a beautiful area. Also of course be safe and have fun,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
hello, Sumner

i will be using my one and only GPS:Garmin 78sc for my trip to Semiahmoo (which got a Canada g2 chip in it as well). i shall read the manual tonight, as i did not know it got information on tides. :confused:

did you say 3 1/2 feet at where i'm heading this thursday?
The GPS will be your friend. No on the 3 1/2 feet. That is about the maximum tide we saw in Florida. You guys get a lot more than that. I saw a little over 8 feet on the web site link, but have no idea where that was.

Have fun,

Sum

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Our MacGregor S Pages

Mac-Venture Links
 
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