Fuses on the negative leg of your 12v

May 16, 2011
140
Oday 28 Niceville, FL
So Monday we had some seriously bad lightening storms in Florida. My father in law's boat took a direct hit to his VHF antenna (its gone, we can't find it). After replacing alot of fried stuff we have determined that the damage done to everything went through the negative side of the VHF and affected everything else tied to the negative bus. the fuse on the positive side of the VHF was blown, however, no circuit breakers were tripped. After inspection of a few of the devices that got cooked, the common damage was all on the negative leg not the positive. My thinking is that the fuse burned out on the positive side of the VHF preventing the charge from going to any other devices, however, the negative side was unfused and caught everything else from the ground bus.
The windlass didn't work, after taking it apart the negative wire solder joint had melted and disconnected it self. No signs of anything on the positive side. We resoldered the connection and it works fine.

Anyway, long story short, has anyone thought of or gone to the trouble of adding fuses to the negative leg of their 12v system to prevent this sort of issue. My thinking at this point is that at the very least fusing both the positive and the negative of any device that could be struck might prevent mass damage to electronics. At the very least the VHF. I mean its a damn lightening rod for all practical and intent purposes.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
So Monday we had some seriously bad lightening storms in Florida. My father in law's boat took a direct hit to his VHF antenna (its gone, we can't find it). After replacing alot of fried stuff we have determined that the damage done to everything went through the negative side of the VHF and affected everything else tied to the negative bus. the fuse on the positive side of the VHF was blown, however, no circuit breakers were tripped. After inspection of a few of the devices that got cooked, the common damage was all on the negative leg not the positive. My thinking is that the fuse burned out on the positive side of the VHF preventing the charge from going to any other devices, however, the negative side was unfused and caught everything else from the ground bus.
The windlass didn't work, after taking it apart the negative wire solder joint had melted and disconnected it self. No signs of anything on the positive side. We resoldered the connection and it works fine.

Anyway, long story short, has anyone thought of or gone to the trouble of adding fuses to the negative leg of their 12v system to prevent this sort of issue. My thinking at this point is that at the very least fusing both the positive and the negative of any device that could be struck might prevent mass damage to electronics. At the very least the VHF. I mean its a damn lightening rod for all practical and intent purposes.
Won't work...
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Why not. Fuse will burn to slow?
#1 Stuff that is not even plugged in can and does get fried....

#2 In order to fuse the neg side this is ground also and not allowed under US safety standards. Fuses are only to be in the ungrounded/positive cable.

#3 In order to fuse the neg this means a fuse capable of 200-300A and all of your electronics were blown well before that.

#4 Lightning is so fast that fuses often don't even blow. About 60%+ of the devices I see fried never had the fuse blow. The fuses often blow when the boat owner tries to power up devices that now have internal shorts.

#5 All fuses have an AIC rating. This is "amperage interrupt current". Lightning exceeds the AIC of every fuse made... I have seen piles of breakers literally welded shut by lightning... Fuses can suffer the same sorts of failure.

#6 There is nothing out there that will save your boats electrics. It there was, every boat would have it....

#7 Lightning traveled through a very unconductive medium to get your boat. A few MM of fuse at 300,000V+ is NOTHING for lightning to jump across, blown or not. Hell it blasts through solid fiberglass just to get to Earth. Jumping a blown fuse is kids play for lightning.

#8 The electronics are blown well before the fuse even pops, if it does at all. Lightining is FAST...

That is just a few reasons to get started with....:D

A down conductor and mast to keel bonding can help minimize hull damage but will do nothing to save electronics.

The windlass didn't work, after taking it apart the negative wire solder joint had melted and disconnected it self. No signs of anything on the positive side. We resoldered the connection and it works fine.
And here is a PRIME reason why crimping battery lugs is far better & safer on boats!! That solder joint melted and parted within microseconds.. SCARY STUFF!!!:eek::eek:

What if that had been the positive cable and the batt switch was welded on by the strike...? Could spell a boat fire!!!

What gauge was the windlass wire? Any pictures of it?? Would love to see some shots of it...
 
May 16, 2011
140
Oday 28 Niceville, FL
lol everything else is crimped. This was inside the motor. No pics, he already fixed it. I've dealt with lighting in the computer worlds for eons and have pretty good suppression in most places I'm running my equipment. Of course the most important part...a good ground. I want to find the VHF antenna, it was blown off the mast.

And yes, lightening does bizarre stuff. We have LED lights, every 3rd led is burned out, the others are fine :)
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,439
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
For fear of reigniting the solder/crimp debate, had the solder joint first been mechanically tight before soldering, it may have melted but it wouldn't have separated.
Seems like the whole debate over soldered connection always goes away if it is properly done.

As to the boat lightning protection, it appears the strike travelled down the coax from the antenna. No fusing can protect that but sometimes surge protectors/suppressors can minimize the resultant damage. Interestingly, I don't think iveever seen a boat which had one except those belonging to ham radio operators who have some experience with big antennas and lightning.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,709
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
For fear of reigniting the solder/crimp debate, had the solder joint first been mechanically tight before soldering, it may have melted but it wouldn't have separated.
Seems like the whole debate over soldered connection always goes away if it is properly done.
If it had been crimped, then soldered, it would have been fine... Course solder won't flow into a properly made battery lug crimp so you're really not soldering much....
 
Nov 3, 2010
564
Oday 39 Lake mills WI
So Monday we had some seriously bad lightening storms in Florida. My father in law's boat took a direct hit to his VHF antenna (its gone, we can't find it). After replacing alot of fried stuff we have determined that the damage done to everything went through the negative side of the VHF and affected everything else tied to the negative bus. the fuse on the positive side of the VHF was blown, however, no circuit breakers were tripped. After inspection of a few of the devices that got cooked, the common damage was all on the negative leg not the positive. My thinking is that the fuse burned out on the positive side of the VHF preventing the charge from going to any other devices, however, the negative side was unfused and caught everything else from the ground bus.
The windlass didn't work, after taking it apart the negative wire solder joint had melted and disconnected it self. No signs of anything on the positive side. We resoldered the connection and it works fine.

Anyway, long story short, has anyone thought of or gone to the trouble of adding fuses to the negative leg of their 12v system to prevent this sort of issue. My thinking at this point is that at the very least fusing both the positive and the negative of any device that could be struck might prevent mass damage to electronics. At the very least the VHF. I mean its a damn lightening rod for all practical and intent purposes.
I think it's a idea well worth exploring. I would like to see what guys like Nigel Calder thinks. Does anyone subscribe to Panbo? Starting a thread there might get a lively discussion if not a quick resolution.
Anyway , I would be sure to use a fuse that is many times larger than the positive side so it would never blow in any event other than a lightning strike.
 
Jan 22, 2008
423
Catalina 30 Mandeville, La.
When lightning strikes anything, a boat, a house, a building, etc, the surge of electricity takes every path to earth ground. The best way to protect anything is to properly ground. Ideally, every potential source of surge will have a low impedance path to ground. Ideally, this would include every major piece of metal, not just the mast, but stanchions, standing rigging, bimini frames, ovens, sinks, etc. On land based grounding systems, it's defined as every "significant" piece of metal and includes things like metal doors, door frames, and electrical conduits. On communications towers, the shield of the coax cable is grounded to the tower at the top of the tower, and then at the base. It's grounded again before it enters the building.

Obviously, you can't ground everything, such as the center wire in your coax, or positive wires, or AC wires. Instead of fuses, surge arrestors are used (fuses are still used for regular current protection). Surge arrestors on the coax will ground the center pin of the coax if the voltage or current rises above a predetermined level. Similar devices can protect the power side of the system. You are probably familiar with power strips that claim to be surge arrestors too. That's basically true, but the ground on the outlet needs to be good, and it's usually just a single MOV device. MOV's are very common and reliable surge arresting components, but just one isn't as effective as a bank of them which will handle larger loads and surges. All of these surge arrestors are quite effective at protecting from induced current from nearby strikes, or surges on the AC power feed, telephone, cable tv, etc. A distant strike can induce significant current on overhead wires and are the most common reason for lightning damage. They are all useless without a good low impedance ground path.

Surge arrestors, and more importantly, grounding, will most likely keep your boat from sinking and keep you from being killed, but a direct hit will still take all paths to ground. The lowest impedance paths will take the most current, while others take less. if there's no low impedance path, it will find one, and it may be through your hull, electronics, or even you. That spark has arced across a mile or two of atmosphere, so whatever obstructions your boat presents are mostly minimal. This includes a blown fuse terminals. Even with significant grounding and protection, a direct hit could put enough surge to still destroy sensitive electronics, but there probably won't be a fire or hole in the bottom of the boat.

Some people attach jumper cables to the rigging and toss one end over the side. The problem here is the clamp, whatever it's clamped to will rapidly lose it's direct low impedance properties as current rises during a surge. It wouldn't be a good enough connection. At that point, it could arc off to you or the lifelines, the tiller, anything with potential. Hooks and turnbuckles will act the same way. An ideal, but maybe not practical method, would be to attach a wire jumper across turnbuckles and rigging connectors to make a good electrical connection. this is what's done on the guy wires that support radio towers. The same might be from lifelines to stanchions, etc. It starts becoming outside of practicality for something ideal.

Some grounding is better than no grounding when done properly. There are some basic rules though that should always be followed. All grounds are to the same point. It may be your keel or a ground rod at home. Even though the sea is pretty consistent in it's ground potential, you don't want to present differences of potential in your system. This is a huge deal on land in a large building or house. I'm a ham radio operator and see hams install expensive radio installations with fancy towers and several thousands of doillars in radio gear, only to drive a special ground rod right outside the station, independent of the regular house ground system. This is bad, because the station is grounded to the house system through power supplies and other connections like pc's, etc. At the same time, it's also connected to the new ground rod. There can be voltage that flows between the two grounds, because there is a different potential, and possibly worse, a surge may prefer the route through the radio station to ground instead of the regular house ground. If there's more than one, they must be connected to each other. This is definitely less of an issue on a small to medium boat in salt water. All surges want to go to the earth and are not likely to run upwards. They don't make sharp turns in wire very well either. West Adviser has a decent description of practical things you can do to protect your boat and avoid galvanic corrosion at the same time.