Furling systems questions.

dlochner · Mar 13, 2021

Halyard wrap is caused by a poor lead from the mast head to the upper furling unit. This is solved by using a halyard retainer at the mast head.

Stu Jackson · Mar 13, 2021

dlochner said:
Halyard wrap is caused by a poor lead from the mast head to the upper furling unit. This is solved by using a halyard retainer at the mast head.

Dave's right. To add, the ProFurl units do not require this because their system has a unique fitting above the top swivel that avoids halyard wrap. I call mine Darth Vader, and if you do a search you'll find my previous comments on this, as well as answering most of your questions.

Admiral said:
and that halyard is used.

What else would you use a jib halyard for? I have a spare jib halyard which I used to use for my whisker pole, which was heavy and had the rigging for an upper support bridle, like a spinnaker pole. Most don't; boats shorter than mine use whisker poles that don't need that support.

Admiral said:
The second style is like CDI FF7 and Alado where the halyards stay with the furler and the boat's halyard is available. Is this true?

"...stay with the furler..." doesn't make sense as a sentence. What they have is their own internal halyards. I had a CDI on my boat when I bought it. For a boat my size, and yours, I think it makes little sense. In my case, the CDI did not allow the top swivel to come down. It was not something I could fix without taking down the entire forestay. Lousy design or poor PO maintenance, I dunno. But I replaced it with a ProFurl.
I did the same investigation you are doing 20 years ago. The REALITY is that not much has changed, so I encourage you to avoid reinventing the wheel.
I chose the ProFurl over the Harken because the ProFurl came with the halyard restrainer built in. I also tension the luff of my jib with a length of line at the tack above the drum, not the halyard, which I keep on a cleat on the mast. Which you'll find discussed on my previous comments that you'll find when you do that search.
If you race seriously, then other systems may have advantages.

Admiral said:
When a search is done for real world reviews on the internet I am finding most comparisions are dated 10, 15 and more than 20 years ago.

Halyard Restrainers

I have searched previous posts, and have found a lot of interesting information. Finally going to replace our Hood 810LD with a Harken Unit 1 cruising furler. The old system did not have a halyard restrainer, and the jib was always right up to the masthead. This allowed for the recommended 6 to...

forums.sailboatowners.com

From 2016. Again, not much has changed, especially given your "issues" about the two types of furling systems, actually three: internal halyard; external halyard with restrainer required on the mast; ProFurl with Darth Vader, wrap stop.

Good luck in your decision making.

Sailfanatic · Mar 13, 2021

I annually assist ma friend with rigging his C22 with a CDI system. Even on the small boat like the 22 you cannot adequately tension the jib luff with the internal halyard, so he sails the season with a loose luff that cannot be adjusted for wind strength. I'd junk the CDI if the boat were mine.

Tally Ho · Mar 13, 2021

My O’Day 322 has an older CDI furler, and I don’t have any issues with it. I fly a pretty large Genoa on mine and don’t have any problems. I like the internal halyard and once the sail is bent on for the season, I don’t have to worry about the halyard. To tighten the luff, I have a line that runs from the tack loop to the top of the furler drum x3. If Imtighten it too much, it makes it hard to turn the drum. But I think the luff is plenty tight, I am a lazy sailor, so I dont adjust it once it is bent on.

Mine uses an aluminum extrusion foil. The new CDI ones use a single piece plastic foil.

But for a boat my size, I do think that the Profurl is a good unit. I will have to see if I can add a jib halyard if I ever switched...mast is full with spin halyard up there now.

Greg

Scott T-Bird · Mar 14, 2021

I'm certainly no expert with furlers, but I'll give you my opinions regardless.

Take it for whatever it is worth to you. CDi's are about half the price as the other reputable furler systems. That's a non-starter for me. It simply can't be the same quality. Besides, if you read enough about them, you will realize that they were designed primarily for trailer-sailer boats. They advertise the ease of use when you are frequently removing your mast for trailering. I certainly don't have any knock against trailer-sailer boats as they certainly provide value and performance for so many sailors whom love to trailer their boat to a great variety of adventures. But your boat is not a trailer-sailer boat. You would probably be best-served by the higher-quality fixed furlers. If the price tag is a primary concern and you just can't justify spending twice the amount then I would consider continuing to hank on sails (if that is what you do now). Price tag for a CDi FF6 or 7? (depending on your stay length and wire size - I would just be guessing) is about $1,250 to $1,500?

I bought a Harken Mark IV for my Starwind 27. I have to say that I was bit disappointed ... I chose it because I like many Harken products, the extrusion has 2 tracks, the drum could be removed for hanking sails on the tracks (racing feature). I never used those 2 features. I experienced halyard wraps (probably operator error), the line occasionally got jammed in the drum (probably my own mis-alignment, but it also seemed that the drum wasn't quite sized to accommodate the line) and it seemed to be pretty difficult to furl under high-wind load - I would sometimes have to allow the sail to luff a little bit to relieve pressure. I never had any really bad experiences and the issues could have been of my own making. I didn't have it very long before selling the boat and I didn't really work on correcting the issues. I thought the quality was good, I was just a bit disappointed in the performance, and I probably could have fixed those issues. Price for a Unit 1 that you would probably need is about $2,900?

I have a Schaefer 2100 on our Catalina 320 and the drum is probably about 15 years old. The original drum corroded because they didn't have a drainage feature and apparently those models had problems because salt water tended to get trapped and cause excessive corrosion. Since they improved the drum design, apparently there are no similar issues anymore. The furler works flawlessly. There are halyard retainers on the mast for both halyards, except that I only have 1 halyard. The extrusion is a single track and I don't seem to have any need for a double track. The drum operates very smoothly even under high-wind load. I'm very pleased with this furler and I think it is superior quality. I am replacing all of my 20-year standing rigging this winter, but I have decided not to change the furler. Price for a Schaefer 2100 for you boat would be about $3,200?

I've seen first-hand a Selden Furlex furler and been impressed with the quality, design and function. They include a new forestay wire in the price, which would seem to be a nice touch. They seem to be a bit more economical but with high quality. A 204S would be about $2,800 for your boat? Of course the pricing all depends upon only the purchase price and the product would have to be specific to your wire size and length, so the prices I show are only relative to a guess. I think I would buy a Furlex if I was buying.

I don't have any experience with any others (no actual experience with CDi, either). But when CDi was recommended to me previously for my Starwind, based entirely on price, I just said no way.

dlochner · Mar 14, 2021

For the budget minded, the Hood SeaFurl is a good choice. They make several other models. I had one on my last boat and it worked well, no problems once I took care the halyard wrap.

Hood doesn't seem to spend much money on marketing, unlike some other brands.

Last year I installed a Schaeffer 2100 from Rigging Only. Haven't had much chance to use it yet. I was impressed with its simplicity and how robust the furler was.

Seafurl 5

Sailfanatic · Mar 14, 2021

I have been using a Harken IV on a P31-2 for seven years and the system works very well for me, the times I've had any operational issues such as halyard wrap or drum jams, have been due to operator error. Prior to the P31-2 I used a Furlex 300 for ten years. The Furlex is premium piece of equipment, much more robust in construction than the Harken. IMHO if you feel you can afford a Furlex, go for it there is a reason that the premium yacht builders install Furlex, otherwise the Harken is a fine unit.

Any furler system is subject to jamming from operator error, this video provides useful operator advice