Furling Main outhaul car hangups

[Pinch]

My 2000 Ben361 has inmast furling main and boom made by Chrleston Spars/Sparcraft. The Outhaul car rides in a slot in the boom and has four Torlon bars inside the boom slot to ease friction between the car and boom slot. Even with regular cleanig and lots of MacLube, the car hangs up frequently, especially if there is any pressure on the mainsail (e.g. not DDW). This occurs on both unfurling and furling. I've always followed the guidance about easing the main sheet and boom vang when deploying or furling, but that only helps marginally.
Sparcraft recommended two possible remedies:
A. a new "improved" outhaul car that uses 4 roller wheels (Torlon-like plastic material) which ride inside the existing boom slot and reportedly will greatly reduce the friction when unfurling/furling.
B. attaching a new External rail (3'-6'L ?) on top of the boom, with a newly designed roller-bearing car riding the rail on top to reduce friction. (This has Lewmar lable and is 5X more expensive than A).
Has anyone else had this or similar issues?
Have you tried either of these approaches? If so how well did it work?
What else might cure the problem?
Thanks
Pinch

 

[cymeyer]

Hi Pinch,
My B321 2000 MY has "A". It is not too bad if i keep the track clean and use Maclube. Also, I put up the main when heading directly up wind. Also, it is important to have the right tension on the main halyard.
I saw "B" at the Annapolis Boat show a couple years ago. I think it was around $400 to put in the new track and buy the new car. That was also using my labor...

 

[Bob Mack]

Hi Pinch:

After two years of hangup's with the car on my 2007 373 Beneteau with in mast furling, I installed the replacement rail and car. I had spoken at length to a fellow at Charleston spars who indicated that the car installed on my 373 was, in fact, a direction from Beneteau, to reach a price point and Charleston was against the decision.

In my case the old car ran below the slot in the boom on a set of 4 poorly configured Delron roller cars. The metal tab, about 2" long that "slid" along the slot easily hung up.

In general I am very pleased and have had no operational issues. I was a bit concerned that the large stopper block at the aft end requires the out-haul line to drag over the block before entering the turning sheave at the aft of the boom. In practice this hasn't been a problem.

Install was very easy.

 

[Pinch]

Thanks, cymeyer

Appreciate the input on experience with car ("A"). Sounds like it still requuires some care in handling and maintenance.

Pinch

Hi Pinch,
My B321 2000 MY has "A". It is not too bad if i keep the track clean and use Maclube. Also, I put up the main when heading directly up wind. Also, it is important to have the right tension on the main halyard.
I saw "B" at the Annapolis Boat show a couple years ago. I think it was around $400 to put in the new track and buy the new car. That was also using my labor...

 

[Pinch]

Thanks, Bob
Appears you may have originally had the type Sparcraft recommended as "A" with the four rollers.
Was the 2" stainless tab on your original the part to which the 4 rollers were mounted? -- and therefore the section inside the slot must be around 3" long?
I was afraid "A" was even smaller that the one I currently have (just less than 6" inside the slot).

Thanks again
Pinch

Hi Pinch:

After two years of hangup's with the car on my 2007 373 Beneteau with in mast furling, I installed the replacement rail and car. I had spoken at length to a fellow at Charleston spars who indicated that the car installed on my 373 was, in fact, a direction from Beneteau, to reach a price point and Charleston was against the decision.

In my case the old car ran below the slot in the boom on a set of 4 poorly configured Delron roller cars. The metal tab, about 2" long that "slid" along the slot easily hung up.

In general I am very pleased and have had no operational issues. I was a bit concerned that the large stopper block at the aft end requires the out-haul line to drag over the block before entering the turning sheave at the aft of the boom. In practice this hasn't been a problem.

Install was very easy.

 

[suttonski]

Hi Pinch,

I have a Beneteau 361 year 2000 and i had the same problem you had. I have talked to David Lively at Charleston Spar in 2006 and I have followed his recommendations. I have inserted in the boom a Lewmar Track with a Lewmar car (size 1) that runs on ball bearing. I can now unfurl and furl my mainby hand. I have replaced my main sail last year with one with vertical batten and I have find it a little bit harder to furl and unfurl. Ithink this because I have not removed the plastic strips along the edge of the opening.

Hope this will help you
Georges

 

[Pinch]

Georges
Thanks for the reply - I also talked to Lively at Sparcraft. It's good to know that his advice worked for you. I believe I will now try it myself.
BTW, have you been hapy with the battened main (I presume it's Neil Pryde)? A friend has a Ben 43 which was delivered with vertical battens and has been pleased, but only after some initial tuning efforts by dealer.

Pinch

Hi Pinch,

I have a Beneteau 361 year 2000 and i had the same problem you had. I have talked to David Lively at Charleston Spar in 2006 and I have followed his recommendations. I have inserted in the boom a Lewmar Track with a Lewmar car (size 1) that runs on ball bearing. I can now unfurl and furl my mainby hand. I have replaced my main sail last year with one with vertical batten and I have find it a little bit harder to furl and unfurl. Ithink this because I have not removed the plastic strips along the edge of the opening.

Hope this will help you
Georges

 

[zrolimt]

suttonski:
have you removed the plastic strips along the edges yet? I have a b361 with vertical battens on my furling main. I also have problems furling and unfurling and because the plastic strips are still on my edges, I am wondering if that is my problem.

 

[suttonski]

Hi Pinch,

Last summer (August 2009) I replaced both my Mainsail and Genoa and I found that the boat would come upwind much better and sail better overall. I had some problem with the mainsail although. Before ordering the batten mainsail I checked with Bob Pattison at Neil Pryde to insure that I would not have any problem furling and unfurling because the mast opening is not very wide. I have plastic strips running on both side of the mast opening reducing it somewhat. He told me that it was not a problem with my Charleston Spar and that I did not have to remove them. After a month I noticed that the velcro use to close the batten pocket was opening and folding upon itself. I thought that I did not close them properly when I installed them. This summer I made sure that they were tightly press together. I had the same problem with two pocket and one of them tore apart at the seem. I had to lower the sail and stitch the pocket. Bob Pattison told me to return the sail for check up and free repair. He will ship it back free but I have to pay to return the sail. He also think that the main sail leech line is stitched at the top because I can not adjust it. I like the sail but I don't think that it suffer in QA because it is made in China.

If I have to remove the plastic strip on my mast it will be a painfull job. How did your friend with the 43 handle the main to avoid problem? Have you replaced your alternator? I would like to install a Balmar with external regulator. Have you increase your house batteries? I have 2 6V AGM for 200A but would like to get at least 400A. I want to install a Webasto cabin heater but I have figure out the best way to run the duct yet.
Thanks
Georges

 

[suttonski]

Hi Zrolimt,

No I have not remove the plastic strips yet but I might have to do it. What kind of problem are you having furling and unfurling. Check my previous reply to Pinch and let me know if you also have problem with the batten pockets opening up. Don't want to unstep the mast to remove the strips.
Georges

 

[Pinch]

Georges
My friend with the Ben43 worked with Neil Pryde and the broker to aleviate the batten hangups. I believe he also found the batten pockets were an issue and Neil Pryde repaired something - but mainly he found he had to avoid any side pressure when furling & unfurling. His mast did not have the same plastic strips we have. If you want to email him, send me your email and I'd forward to him for you - he'll probably agree to contact you.
I have not upgraded my alternator nor the house battery (currently a 4D wet). I've looked for space for additonal 4D without luck - perhaps the 6V would be easier to fit in. I only use Origio alcohol heater - not too cold here in VA.
Pinch

 

[zrolimt]

Hi Zrolimt,

No I have not remove the plastic strips yet but I might have to do it. What kind of problem are you having furling and unfurling. Check my previous reply to Pinch and let me know if you also have problem with the batten pockets opening up. Don't want to unstep the mast to remove the strips.
Georges

hi suttonski:
i have to a hard time unfurling the main at times. I've lubed the lewmar car and slot, and even lubed the mechanism in the mast. Crew has trouble bringing main out by hand. I too have vertical battens on my Pryde sail.

 

[suttonski]

Hi Zrolimt,

Do you have the original Beneteau outhaul system? I have replaced that system with a track inserted in the boom groove and I am using a Lewmar ball bearing car that rides on this new track. It made a big differnece. I can send you pictures that I got from Charleston Spar if you send me your e-mail. To insert the track you have to remove the boom from the mast and slide the track in the groove. You will have to install stoppers at the end of the track and they came with the kit I have ordered from Charleston Spar.

Georges

 

[zrolimt]

Hi Zrolimt,

Do you have the original Beneteau outhaul system? I have replaced that system with a track inserted in the boom groove and I am using a Lewmar ball bearing car that rides on this new track. It made a big differnece. I can send you pictures that I got from Charleston Spar if you send me your e-mail. To insert the track you have to remove the boom from the mast and slide the track in the groove. You will have to install stoppers at the end of the track and they came with the kit I have ordered from Charleston Spar.

Georges

suttonski:
sorry it took so long for the reply. I do have a lewmar car and it sounds like the same setup as you have. when you furl/unfurl, how do you have our vang and mainsheet tensioned? sometimes I have a problem with furling/unfurling, sometimes I don't. When I do, crew has to use the winch to do the job.

 

[suttonski]

Hi Zrolimt,

How are you? Still sailing I suppose. When I furl/unfurl I always release the boom vang and the mainsheet although I have to keep some tension in the mainsheet to limit the boom swing. I can bring the sail out by hand but I have more difficulty furling by hand. In the spring I have replaced the swivel at the base of the furling screw because the other had two flat spots. It improved but not to the point I expected.

My boat is now out of the water so I have returned my sail to Neil Pryde (Bob Pattison) two weeks ago because one batten pocket flap (closed by velcro) was ripped at both end (the opening where you insert the batten) . I had another pocket that was opening and folding back on itself, I could see the exposed batten. I had to bring the sail down during the summer and my wife made a quick temporary repair and at the same time made 3 stitches (hope this is the good word) thru the velcro to ensure that it would stay close. I also could not adjust the leech line and Bob Pattison thought that it was probably stiched at the top.

Maybe I will have to go up the mast and removed the plastic strips on both sides of the mast opening to increase the width.

Have you installed more batteries on your 361?

Regards,
Georges

 

[zrolimt]

Hi Zrolimt,

How are you? Still sailing I suppose. When I furl/unfurl I always release the boom vang and the mainsheet although I have to keep some tension in the mainsheet to limit the boom swing. I can bring the sail out by hand but I have more difficulty furling by hand. In the spring I have replaced the swivel at the base of the furling screw because the other had two flat spots. It improved but not to the point I expected.

My boat is now out of the water so I have returned my sail to Neil Pryde (Bob Pattison) two weeks ago because one batten pocket flap (closed by velcro) was ripped at both end (the opening where you insert the batten) . I had another pocket that was opening and folding back on itself, I could see the exposed batten. I had to bring the sail down during the summer and my wife made a quick temporary repair and at the same time made 3 stitches (hope this is the good word) thru the velcro to ensure that it would stay close. I also could not adjust the leech line and Bob Pattison thought that it was probably stiched at the top.

Maybe I will have to go up the mast and removed the plastic strips on both sides of the mast opening to increase the width.

Have you installed more batteries on your 361?

Regards,
Georges

Thank you, I will go out this weekend and try unfurling and furling as you suggest. I will let you know how it works out. I have 4 6v (golf cart type) batteries for the house and 1 group 27 for the starter. I have them isolated and also put in a 3K watt inverter/charger combo. 2 of 4 6v are in series and then hooked parallel to the other 2 (also in series). All seems to be working fine. She still sails well balanced.
PJ

 

[suttonski]

Hi, Where did you put the batteries? AGM, Gell or Wet cells, how many amps? I have Air Cond. under the seat on the table side. This takes a lot of room. I find that my boat is listing about 2 deg. to port and don't know how to balance her.
Thanks
Georges

 

[suttonski]

Hi Zrolimt,
I forgot to mention a key element that I have read which makes unfurling easier. When you furl the mainsail it is very important to keep the foot under tension with the outhaul line. I have found that this makes unfurling much easier. Also make sure that the boom is slightly higher than the horizontal plane. You can have a look at the following article:
http://www.sparcraft.com/uk/products/masts/furling_masts/recommendations/default.asp

Hope this will help.
Georges