Furler line selection

[Project_Mayhem]

This is a continuation of an earlier post that confirmed I had been sold Warp Speed to help with the Hood furler on my previous boat. On my new to me boat, I am having similar issues with my Hood furler.

The line is jamming within the previous layer on the spool. Basically it sinks in between the line on the previous layer and gets stuck. I have had warp speed help with that but I'm curious about another approach. Many people swear by removing the core so it lays flat and doesnt jam. Has anyone considered using hollow braid instead?

 

[kappykaplan]

Many people swear by removing the core so it lays flat and doesnt jam. Has anyone considered using hollow braid instead?

Did that with my last furler. You only need to remove the core from the first 10-15 feet.

 

[dlochner]

Make sure the lead from the last block to the drum is at the correct angle and there is enough tension on the drum to make the line wrap snug.

 

[jssailem]

I find warp speed too stiff for the furling line. Harken provided 70 feet of a 7mm diameter line with the furler. The line wraps easily and is low stretch. They identify it as “specially formulated”. I believe it is a polyester double braid with a Dyneema core. It is not stiff and wraps smoothly on the drum.

Avoiding snags or line jamming is accomplished by:

• maintaining low tension on the line when unfurling the head sail.
• wash down the furler and line with a little soap and water regularly
• Inspect and tighten all screws at least each year when commissioning boat at start of season.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I'm aware of the items that need to be adjusted and checked. Instead of going through the hassle and expense of de-coring double braid, why not just go for hollow? It's generally cheaper too

 

[dlochner]

I'm aware of the items that need to be adjusted and checked. Instead of going through the hassle and expense of de-coring double braid, why not just go for hollow? It's generally cheaper too

Line strength is based on the core, not the cover. The job of the cover is to protect the core. When the jib is reefed in a strong wind there is a lot of pressure on the furling line, a hollow core line will not be as strong and there is a potential for it to break in those conditions.

Look for a soft line, like a simple double braid polyester and not bigger than 5/16". Stretch is only a concern when reefed and the line can be readjusted to compensate for any stretch.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

Line strength is based on the core, not the cover. The job of the cover is to protect the core. When the jib is reefed in a strong wind there is a lot of pressure on the furling line, a hollow core line will not be as strong and there is a potential for it to break in those conditions.

Of course any line, hollow or cored, should be able to withstand the loads exerted on it. If it's up to spec, then why not use hollow?

 

[jssailem]

These are my thoughts about the use of hollow.

• The use of a hollow line conjectures that the line will flatten against the drum, thus mitigating the potential for the line to get pinched and jam on the drum.
  • This is a flawed assumption. As the line is tensioned, it constricts due to the braid. Its shape remains round, and it will have the same potential to jam as a non-hollow line.
• When a Dyneema braid line constricts, its diameter is reduced, which affects the line's hand feel.
• Dyneema line is slippery. I think this will increase the potential to jam as it is tensioned on the drum not reduce this issue.

 

[dlochner]

Of course any line, hollow or cored, should be able to withstand the loads exerted on it. If it's up to spec, then why not use hollow?

Off the top of my head I'm not aware of any hollow core lines other braided polypropylene or Spectra and Dyneema lines. Do you have particular line you are thinking of?

 

[Project_Mayhem]

These are my thoughts about the use of hollow.

• The use of a hollow line conjectures that the line will flatten against the drum, thus mitigating the potential for the line to get pinched and jam on the drum.
  • This is a flawed assumption. As the line is tensioned, it constricts due to the braid. Its shape remains round, and it will have the same potential to jam as a non-hollow line.
• When a Dyneema braid line constricts, its diameter is reduced, which affects the line's hand feel.
• Dyneema line is slippery. I think this will increase the potential to jam as it is tensioned on the drum not reduce this issue.

Warp speed is Dyneema core with some kind of cover. It was ok on the hands albeit a bit small. We've gotten used to 1/4" furler lines.

Is there a difference in the braiding between hollow core and double braid with the core removed? I've seen line with the core removed that was flattened by years of use on a furler

Off the top of my head I'm not aware of any hollow core lines other braided polypropylene or Spectra and Dyneema lines. Do you have particular line you are thinking of?

I bought some no name brand for a main halyard off of amazon that turned out to be a good quality hollow braid. It had a tiny bit of slip in my clutch but otherwise worked fine. I occasionally had to snug it up to maintain tension but it wasnt often.

 

[jssailem]

The flattened end on the drum will not cause the jam. It is the sloppy line that occurs when the furling line is free to run when you are pulling the foresail out, and the wind grabs the sail, which spins the drum.

 

[jssailem]

Try various lines out to identify what will happen.

I have tested this on Dyneema. The 12-braid hollow line constricts into a round shape until it breaks.

 

[dlochner]

Is there a difference in the braiding between hollow core and double braid with the core removed? I've seen line with the core removed that was flattened by years of use on a furler

I believe the braiding is pretty much the same, but I haven't pulled any apart to really know.

A single braid line will flatten when there is not much tension on it. When it is tensioned it will return to a round shape and compress like one of those finger traps.

If you are using ¼" line and still having issues, it may be the lead angle to the drum or more likely not enough tension on the furling line when the sail is unfurled. Without tension on the line, it will wrap loosely around the drum leading to overrides and jamming. Tension is most important in the early stages of deploying the jib. Before going to the expense and work changing the line, try adding tension to the furling line. It can be done by holding in your hand (wear gloves!) or just belaying around a cleat or winch.

 

[thinwater]

Did that with my last furler. You only need to remove the core from the first 10-15 feet.

^^ This. Remove all of the core until just short of the clutch when fully furled. The braid then lays flat, like webbing. It is also only half the bulk, obviously. The tail is conveniently large enough to handle. Common practice, and MORE than strong enough for a 30-foot boat.

With polyester double braid, 50% of the strength is in the cover and 50% in the core; it is a balanced construction.

My current boat has a high-mod line on the jib, with an extra cover spliced on for the clutch, and stripped core polyester DB on the reacher. Both work well.

This is about bearing replacement, but it discusses stripped core. Hood Seafurl 800 Bearing Replacement

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Also, as others have mentioned, keeping controlled tension on the line when unfurling helps.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I believe the braiding is pretty much the same, but I haven't pulled any apart to really know.

A single braid line will flatten when there is not much tension on it. When it is tensioned it will return to a round shape and compress like one of those finger traps.

If you are using ¼" line and still having issues, it may be the lead angle to the drum or more likely not enough tension on the furling line when the sail is unfurled. Without tension on the line, it will wrap loosely around the drum leading to overrides and jamming. Tension is most important in the early stages of deploying the jib. Before going to the expense and work changing the line, try adding tension to the furling line. It can be done by holding in your hand (wear gloves!) or just belaying around a cleat or winch.

There's multiple issues with this furler. Furler line lead angle is off a bit. I've found that getting the last block closer to the spool helps. I need to add a support to the bow pulpit to make that happen. I also need to replace a block sheave and cam cleat fairlead that the line burned a divot into.

I've been doing some reading and while there are multiple issues, I'm starting to think that the main issue is halyard wrap. When it's first pulled out, it'll rotate a tiny bit and then stop. Someone often has to climb to the bow to turn or pull by hand, then 5-10ft of sail will come out, then it'll have a bit of resistance and then more will come out. It varies from day to day. Yesterday I found the halyard didn't have much tension on it. I cranked it, and the furler improved a bit. I have laminate sails. The genoa (hence the smaller line installed by a PO), is an absolute bear to hoist. Even with a cabin top winch, I wasnt able to raise it all the way. The guy I bought the boat off of had similar issues. So, based on my few hours of research today, I think halyard wrap is high on the list of things to check for. The symptoms match and the sail is at least a foot too low, which of course causes a poor halyard angle. I have not dealt with halyard wrap before. I think the next step should be to drop the sail and apply liberal amounts of SailKote in the track while re-hoisting. If that doesn't work, I'll install a pendant at the head of the sail as a temporary solution to get the upper swivel higher. What do you guys think?

^^ This. Remove all of the core until just short of the winch when fully furled. The braid then lays flat, like webbing. It is also only half the bulk, obviously. Common practice, and MORE than strong enough for a 30-foot boat.

I read that its upwards of 50% of the strength for just the cover? Is this number accurate?

 

[jssailem]

The Harken manual has some good universal information regarding the commissioning and operation of a furler. There is a section on pendants and how to design one that fits your foresail. I have selected the specific pages for your review.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

The Harken manual has some good universal information regarding the commissioning and operation of a furler. There is a section on pendants and how to design one that fits your foresail. I have selected the specific pages for your review.

Thank you very much for doing this. I will review it as soon as I can