Fuel tanks:

SVFlyAway · Jun 9, 2014

I am putting a 13 gallon fuel tank under the galley area. There is still plenty of room for the little stove on top. I surrounding the cooking area with stainless for those of you worried about having the two close together. If it was gasoline I probably wouldn't do it, but diesel doesn't light or burn as does gasoline.

pelagicasd · Jun 9, 2014

Larry, What engine are you using? Walt From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comDate: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 05:18:17 +0000Subject: [AlbinVega] Fuel tanks:

Sent from Windows MailGood evening all,Have any of you placed fuel tanks under the couches in the cabin? I am thinking I could build two tanks, one on port and one on starboard, placed on the bottom of the hull floor. The added weight would be mid ship, and sitting off center of the keel. I thought of placing them under the cockpit, but the weight is aft and could cause some problems. Thinking center of boat, added weight, down low sounds good. Any thoughts?Larry

stevebirch2002 · Jun 10, 2014

Hi Larry
 
Check out the Beta 3 Cylinder 20hp (BD722). Fits
pretty well into the Vega and has that extra cylinder.
 
Cheers
 
Steve Birch

From: lewills30@...
[AlbinVega]
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 6:49 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Fuel tanks:
 

Hi Walt,

I am looking at two different engines. The 2YM15C-14HP Yanmar and the 3YM20
22 HP Yanmar. I have been following Chuck on LeaLea and he has been mentioning
that he is under powered for the waters in Alaska. It sounds like the currents
must be pretty strong. And it looks like I will be heading up that way before to
long. This is one of the reasons I want to place my fuel tanks mid ship. Even if
I go with the 3YM20, I can place it 3 inches forward if needed I believe it is
27.2 in long as the 2YM15 is 24 .2 inches long. Everything else size wise is the
same. The weight of the 3YM20 is only 39 pounds heavier. A guy could leave 39
pounds of junk on the dock and be good. I live in the NW and we have a lot of
rivers and inlets up through BC. I know it is a sail boat, but from what I have
witnessed watching Chuck, he is running his engine a lot. If I could see how to
install the Yanmar stern drive unit I would get it. I have been looking at how
it could be mounted. Maybe in front of the rudder? Even if one had to relocate
the rudder aft a few inches? Maybe mounting the Yanmar stern drive right behind
the rudder…that won’t work, the shaft from the rudder would be in the way.

The time couldn’t be better to make any small adjustments for a power
plant than right now. I have my boat gutted clean and I have started at one
end of the boat and reinforced, re-glassed, repaired all stress cracks, old
holes for god knows what and making her stronger than new. And of cause keeping
the weight in mind on every move, so far very little added weight, and a great
tight boat.

Larry    

Sent from Windows Mail

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comSent: ‎Monday‎,
‎June‎ ‎9‎, ‎2014 ‎8‎:‎47‎ ‎AMTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com

 

Larry, What engine are you using?  Walt 

From: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comTo: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comDate: Mon, 9
Jun 2014 05:18:17 +0000Subject: [AlbinVega] Fuel
tanks: 

Sent from Windows Mail
Good evening all,

Have any of you placed fuel tanks under the couches in the cabin? I am
thinking I could build two tanks, one on port and one on starboard, placed on
the bottom of the hull floor. The added weight would be mid ship, and sitting
off center of the keel. I thought of placing them under the cockpit, but
the weight is aft and could cause some problems. Thinking center of boat, added
weight, down low sounds good. Any thoughts?

Larry

tiempo2010 · Jun 10, 2014

I do not think a Vega needs 22 hp. Look at the Beta 14 or 16 - both 2 cylinder engines, easy to service, well priced, and parts are not expensive.

dougpol1 · Jun 10, 2014

I agree with Brian, 22 horse power is a lot of engine. Ihave the
old volvo and get six knots. I would think the Beta 14 would get you
61/2 maybe close to 7 knots. Seven knots is really moving for a 27
ft boat. The newer engines are a lot lighter than the volvo so that
should work in your favor when motoring. With a lighter engine and
the fuel tank moved up high you may want to add a lttile ballast in
the bottom of the bilge.
--
Doug Pollard
Albin Vega Sea Legs 2225
KK4YGO

On 06/10/2014 10:40 PM, Brian Stannard
brianstannard@... [AlbinVega] wrote:

tiempo2010 · Jun 10, 2014

The Vega is a displacement hull. After it reaches hull speed all you end up doing is wasting fuel while you try to climb the bow wave. Hull speed is a bit less than 6.75 knots.

tomfentonvega2977beowulf · Jun 11, 2014

Brian, That is very interesting. I must be mistaken. I thought you calculated the hull speed by taking the square root of the waterline length in feet. Which I think comes to about 4.75 knots. Could you explain how you arrived at your calculation? (I am not disputing it for a moment, I am just interested.) Tom Fenton, Beowulf, V2977

newboldnoyes · Jun 11, 2014

My cousin & I replaced my old volvo penta with a betamarine 14 which fit well into the engine space. We also installed a new shaft & a 2 blade folding prop. the vega moves well, but we don't push it, we may get 6 knots, but I'm not in much of a rush when I'm on the water, as the longer I'm on the water, generally the happier I am...from myphone nn

dougpol1 · Jun 11, 2014

OK That is pretty low. My tank is up in a cockpit locker with
batteries on the other side. In my opinion that is too high though a
lot of boats have them there now days. I wasn't trying to say a
lighter engine would be a problem but only that if you find she is
not as stiff after the change it would be easy to add a couble
bricks of lead to the bottom of the builge. In truth I doubt you
would even notice any difference. I guess my point was even though I
didn't make it very well was that it's easy to fix if there is a
difference. I am sure the placement of the fuel tank and batteries
as well as the weight of the engine were all calculated into the
design. Now we also have the weight of a holding tank as well. Mine
though I don't use it is just under the deck way to high if it were
full. I know a guy who races his Vega every Wednesday night. His
fuel tank is in the keel and he fills it up befor racing and swears
she sails better with the tank full. It amazes me that him in his
early 70's and his boat over forty years old wins a race now and
then and is always competitive. Some of the guys he races against
are Hot shots. He says winning races is not all about spending money

--
Doug Pollard
Albin Vega Sea Legs 2225
KK4YGO

On 06/11/2014 01:39 AM,
lewills30@... [AlbinVega] wrote:

n4lbl · Jun 11, 2014

My geriatric memory has the equation as:
max speed in knots = 1.34 times the square root of the waterline length in feet
The coefficient 1.34 was empirically based and is not a definitive number. It is useful for quick and dirty analyses and actually does vary some with hull form. A search on this topic will yield way too much for my taste but you may find Hull speed - Wikipedia of interest.
Alan

tiempo2010 · Jun 11, 2014

Square root of waterline x 1.34 is very close unless the boat is able to plane. That doesn't mean that you cannot sail faster on occasion. In the right breeze you have more than enough horsepower to sail faster. But under power it is a losing proposition, burning a lot more fuel for little gain. A smaller engine will use less fuel at normal cruising speeds than a larger one as well.

n4lbl · Jun 11, 2014

IIRC that coefficient varies with things like block coefficient (prismatic coefficient??) and I don't know what else. I'd guess that a larger factor (again varying by hull form, loading, and whatnot) would be changes to the waterline length as a function of angle of heel.

vega1860 · Jun 11, 2014

Just a clarification to Larry: Lealea is not under powered with her 18 bhp Yanmar 2gmf. Rather she is under-propped, with a small sailing prop to maximize sailing performance at the expense of performance under power. We noticed right away in the PNW meeting other Vegas and recognize that a larger three-blade wheel would make cruising under power easier. Unfortunately, crossing oceans under sail with one is like towing a bucket. We made the choice and are happy to live with it."Fair winds"Chuck and Laura RoseSV Lealea, V1860

pjacobs55 · Jun 11, 2014

I've found the best prop choice (apart from breaking the bank for a folding or self-feathering prop) is a three-blade Campbell Sailer.It has good thrust and relatively little drag ... kinda like dragging a bucket with a hole in the bottom

... and the support from the maker is outstanding.As far as power, my Vega had a 13hp Yanmar 2GMF and Campbell Sailer three-blade 13RH9 prop and would do 4 knots at a fast idle, 6.5 knots flat out, and was never any problem in strong winds or currents. My Ballad has the same engine, but a later 16hp version, also with three-blade Campbell Sailer 14RH7 prop and has more than enough power for these PNW waters.When you look at the blades on these props they are so skinny you wonder how they would generate thrust, but they do, and do it well.Peter

tiempo2010 · Jun 11, 2014

The pc wouldn't make that much difference. And a Vega won't gain much more than a foot of waterline length when heeled as it has very short overhangs to start with. Bottom line if you want to exceed 6.75 or 7 knots you need a lot of power - not 10 hp more, more like triple the power.
The designs that really change the number to 1.5 or so have very wide sterns and can start to plane.

dougpol1 · Jun 11, 2014

Vega has a couple of things going for her He length to width is
31/2 to 1 that increases her hull speed some. With out to much more
power she can make six knots and will sail 61/2 though its above
hull speed. She has a straight run in her bottom amidships which
makes her faster than some might think in light air. Her average
speed sailing is pretty fast. I am always amazed at the distances I
can run in a day. I guess the biggest thing a bigger engine will do
is let you drive into waves when running against the wind because
the engine can push even when the bow is buried some. We ran in the
waterway canals to windward and motoring using Genoa making a huge
difference in hull speed we manage 71/2 knots for a short time but
backed the engine off in respect for her old age then running about
six knots in comfort with Jenny rolled up some to keep from heeling
to much. I have a couple of low g beach chairs which I set on top
the cockpit seats so just running on the engine lets you rest a
couple days setting up there with the tiller tucked under one arm.
Very comfortable when you need to motor a couple days at a time.

--
Doug Pollard
Albin Vega Sea Legs 2225
KK4YGO

On 06/11/2014 08:54 PM, Brian Stannard brianstannard@...
[AlbinVega] wrote: