Fuel pump advice

J

Jezbob

.
Aug 4, 2019
3
Catalina 27 Pasadena
My Catalina 27 (1973) has an Atomic 4 gas that cuts out after say 20 mins - no splutter just dies. Wait 15 minutes and i can usually get her started to last another 10 and so on (diminishing returns i suspect).
Many theories abound online as to possible cause (eg loose contact, fuel blockage, coil malfunction/wrong coil) but I noticed that the fuel pump gets crazy hot.
1. Is this normal or a sign of an issue? The coil gets hot but not narly as hot as this.
2. What would make it stop (is there a safety feature?) and then allow starting again?
3. (see pic) My pump has a separate smaller section to the right - what is this? as not all replacement pumps have this.
4. Any recommendations for replacement? Will any pump do?
Fuel pump.jpg
 
B

Benny17441

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May 24, 2004
7,131
CC 30 South Florida
A fuel flow obstruction would likely prevent the engine from restarting. I would replace the Coil and Ignition condenser as they tend to fail when hot and then work again when they have cooled off. Next Time that the engine cuts off disconnect the fuel line and see if the fuel pump is working. Any electric fuel pump will do as long as is 12V; I prefer the engine driven mechanical fuel pumps. The smaller section, don't know an inline filter maybe? When an engine dies from fuel starvation it will usually cough and sputter while an ignition failure can be instantaneously or cause a strong misfire.
 
Last edited:
LeslieTroyer

LeslieTroyer

.
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
+1 on the coil if it feel hot. You could also have a partially obstructed fuel vent line. Leave open the fill port and go out for a motor.
 
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Full Circle 473

Full Circle 473

.
Dec 29, 2015
80
Beneteau 473 Mukilteo WA
Vapor lock. Once the fuel in the pump reaches the flash point temperature, it turns to vapor. The pump can’t pump vapor. As the pump cools down, the gas returns to liquid and can then be pumped again. The pump is already hot and takes less time to heat the gas to vapor. Sounds like a faulty pump. Fuel pump should not get hot. Good luck.
 
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J

Jezbob

.
Aug 4, 2019
3
Catalina 27 Pasadena
Thanks for the above. I feel that the suddenness of cutout says electrical (but no condenser as it elec ignition). The coil also gets crazy hot so I replaced it and the new one does the same. I heard old spark plugs / leads can make the coil do too much work and overheat and I replaced plugs (leads yet to arrive) - and still the coil gets crazy hot. So now to the cause - I'm thinking is it the current from the alternator that is too high? My coil has internal resistance of 3 Ohms, and I think the alternator is supposed to have a section that is a resistor attached to it. So should I just buy and fit some extra resistor to put somehow between alt and coil?? Or is it time for a new alternator?
And finally what of the hot fuel pump? Is it just a coincidence that it too is faulty? Or could the ignition switch which is connected to both the pump and the coil (am i right here?) somehow be frying them when the engine ids running. My amateur mind can't really see how that could happen...
Alt2.jpeg
Alt1.jpeg
 
LeslieTroyer

LeslieTroyer

.
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
The ballast resister in cars is disabled when cranking to give extra spark when you need it most. You can put one on the line to the coil, but I would run a bypass from the starter solenoid to the coil.

Be sure and mount the resister where it will dissipate heat.
 
LeslieTroyer

LeslieTroyer

.
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
LeslieTroyer said:
The ballast resister in cars is disabled when cranking to give extra spark when you need it most. You can put one on the line to the coil, but I would run a bypass from the starter solenoid to the coil.

Be sure and mount the resister where it will dissipate heat.
Click to expand
Unless your alternator is putting out way too much voltage changing it won’t effect anything.
 
J

Jezbob

.
Aug 4, 2019
3
Catalina 27 Pasadena
Hi Leslie
The bypass ... sounds good but is this an alternative to getting a resistor? And do I just connect the solenoid to the coil (at which points?) and do I disconnect something else. I am that rookie.
 
jviss

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
An ignition coil requires a ballast resistor. It is either internal to the coil, or separate, outside. If it's outside it can be bypassed with a wire form the starter solenoid to the coil side of the resistor.
 
LeslieTroyer

LeslieTroyer

.
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
Bypass/ballast resisters are readily available from auto parts stores (you’ll need to find a counter man who knows cars). Power from on-side of ignition switch to one side of the resister, coil and starter solenoid to the other.

The resister will be about 1/2x1/2x2.5” in size with 1/4” push terminals on each side - made of a ceramic material.

Cars before the 70’s did not have these resisters and burnt out coils.
 
MikeHoncho

MikeHoncho

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Dec 28, 2015
1,847
Laser, Hunter H30 Cherubini Tacoma
Yea, ballast resistors were the thing before internally resisted coils in points style ignition systems.
 
jviss

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
LeslieTroyer said:
All I can say is my Alfa gueletta’s, TR2&3’s, and VW’s never did
Click to expand
And what do those have in common? They use 3 Ω coils, that don't require ballast resistors. If you put the wrong coil in it, e.g., a 1.5 Ω coil, it will get hot.
 
MikeHoncho

MikeHoncho

.
Dec 28, 2015
1,847
Laser, Hunter H30 Cherubini Tacoma
LeslieTroyer said:
All I can say is my Alfa gueletta’s, TR2&3’s, and VW’s never did
Click to expand
Do they have points? Maybe that's why they never start? ;) I'll admit, I'm talking American small block but my comment was pretty generalized without many "all" and "wills".
 
MikeHoncho

MikeHoncho

.
Dec 28, 2015
1,847
Laser, Hunter H30 Cherubini Tacoma
I had a Ski Nautique with a small block Ford with points. It had a hard start issue that was corrected by running a jumper from the starter solenoid to the coil that bypassed the BR while cranking. Worked great.
 
LeslieTroyer

LeslieTroyer

.
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
MikeHoncho said:
Do they have points? Maybe that's why they never start? ;) I'll admit, I'm talking American small block but my comment was pretty generalized without many "all" and "wills".
Click to expand
Yes the best was Bosch on the VW FOLLOWED BY LUCAS(prince of darkness) on TR’s and one Alfa worst was the King of darkness Magnetti Morelli on the Veloce.
 
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MikeHoncho

MikeHoncho

.
Dec 28, 2015
1,847
Laser, Hunter H30 Cherubini Tacoma
LeslieTroyer said:
Yes the best was Bosch on the VW FOLLOWED BY LUCAS(prince of darkness) on TR’s and one Alfa worst was the King of darkness Magnetti Morelli on the Veloce.
Click to expand
Lol, my dad has a TR6. Love that car even though it doesn't start.
 
FDL S2

FDL S2

.
Jun 29, 2014
470
S2 7.3 Fond du Lac
LeslieTroyer said:
Yes the best was Bosch on the VW FOLLOWED BY LUCAS(prince of darkness) on TR’s and one Alfa worst was the King of darkness Magnetti Morelli on the Veloce.
Click to expand
The mention of Lucas (the original anti-theft device) triggered my PTSD.
 
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