Had the grand opportunity of changing fuel filters this weekend; a Racor secondary and Yanmar primary on a 2GM20F. Pre-filled filters and carefully followed the directions from this website. I carefully pumped the little lever on the manual pump to bleed the system...and pumped...and pumped. Slowly, full throw, patiently, etc. In the end, I let gravity do its thing to fill the individual hoses, and got the engine going. I carefully bled the top of the primary (a few bubbles, then fuel) while she ran. And she's running fine today. Here's my question - am I alone or does that little pump lever leave a lot to be desired? A Yanmar rep last year changed the filters and commented on a possible problem with the pump, but I've never had a problem running the engine. Surely it can't run season after season and not be working properly. I know the little lever has no fans, which brings me to a question about a posi-flo fuel pump that's been advocated here; if its installed inline, after the secondary filter, I presume it needs to be on at all times; any problems with installation, thoughts, etc, appreciated. I know these topics have been covered in the archives, but I was truly surprised how useless the little manual pump was. Paul
Fuel Filter Fun
- Thread starter PHitchcox
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It's always that way.
I have a 3HM and have seen the same on the 3GM. It's always that way. The last 1/4" of throw is important. There will be some resistance, but that is what activates the pump diaphragm. FWIW, also, if the Racor is before the small filter attached to the engine (it should be), then is should be called the Primary filter and the one on the engine is called the secondary filter.
I have a 3HM and have seen the same on the 3GM. It's always that way. The last 1/4" of throw is important. There will be some resistance, but that is what activates the pump diaphragm. FWIW, also, if the Racor is before the small filter attached to the engine (it should be), then is should be called the Primary filter and the one on the engine is called the secondary filter.
Useless little pump, lever and space.
Every Yanmar owner whose sole method of priming with the lever has felt your pain. I don't think that the pump can self prime very well so, you really need to fill up the fuel filter canister before you re-install it. This usually leads to overflow and clean-up problems too. Its like a dog scratching fleas - just keep pumping and pumping until aha - a trickle out the bleed screw. It's just a matter of time before I put a pump back at the tank to bleed the whole thing without that dear little lever!
Every Yanmar owner whose sole method of priming with the lever has felt your pain. I don't think that the pump can self prime very well so, you really need to fill up the fuel filter canister before you re-install it. This usually leads to overflow and clean-up problems too. Its like a dog scratching fleas - just keep pumping and pumping until aha - a trickle out the bleed screw. It's just a matter of time before I put a pump back at the tank to bleed the whole thing without that dear little lever!
push hard
You've got to push hard on that little lever. If it pushes easy, you're not pumping anything. I put a squeeze bulb on my fuel line before the Racor. It makes it a lot easier to fill the bowl and bleed the lines.
You've got to push hard on that little lever. If it pushes easy, you're not pumping anything. I put a squeeze bulb on my fuel line before the Racor. It makes it a lot easier to fill the bowl and bleed the lines.
Avoid the pump
To prove the point of the responders, try it yourself next time you're at the boat. You'll feel the lever go that extra quarter-inch. Voila. To avoid the problem altogether, I use a West System plastic syringe to top off the primary (engine) fuel filter. Works every time and precludes the pumping annoynance.
To prove the point of the responders, try it yourself next time you're at the boat. You'll feel the lever go that extra quarter-inch. Voila. To avoid the problem altogether, I use a West System plastic syringe to top off the primary (engine) fuel filter. Works every time and precludes the pumping annoynance.
Can't wait
Wow; if I pumped so many times, and never really engaged the last 1/4 inch... I'll let you know later; thanks for the comments. Paul
Wow; if I pumped so many times, and never really engaged the last 1/4 inch... I'll let you know later; thanks for the comments. Paul
'Yanmar Thumb'
This phenomenon was described as the 'Yanmar Thumb' in a recent Mack-Boring diesel seminar, created by repeatedly stroking the pump lever without engaging the last 1/4" which is where all the action occurs. Those that continue to stroke w/o engaging get 'The Thumb', no satisfaction and no resolution to the problem the necessitated the pump to be used. This little known nugget is now filed in the ever-expanding "#@$%! I wish I'd known that!" file...
This phenomenon was described as the 'Yanmar Thumb' in a recent Mack-Boring diesel seminar, created by repeatedly stroking the pump lever without engaging the last 1/4" which is where all the action occurs. Those that continue to stroke w/o engaging get 'The Thumb', no satisfaction and no resolution to the problem the necessitated the pump to be used. This little known nugget is now filed in the ever-expanding "#@$%! I wish I'd known that!" file...
Phil - Flag this post
Phil, this should required reading under fuel filter advice (or the "#@$%! I wish I'd known that!" file). We should all do our part to reduce incidence of Yanmar Thumb! Paul
Phil, this should required reading under fuel filter advice (or the "#@$%! I wish I'd known that!" file). We should all do our part to reduce incidence of Yanmar Thumb! Paul
there is another little trick to that pump!
I found out quite by accident that there's a way to get more out of that little thumb sucker. My engine is the old 2QM 15 series and i'm sure that all these type pumps are similar. since the pump is accuated on a cam in the engine, if it happens that its at the upper most position of its stroke then all you get is that little 1/4 inch. however if you turn the engine over by hand to get the cam at the bottom of its stroke then with the thumb you get the full stroke out of the pump. but alas they don't tell you this in the service manuals. S/V Que Pasa?
I found out quite by accident that there's a way to get more out of that little thumb sucker. My engine is the old 2QM 15 series and i'm sure that all these type pumps are similar. since the pump is accuated on a cam in the engine, if it happens that its at the upper most position of its stroke then all you get is that little 1/4 inch. however if you turn the engine over by hand to get the cam at the bottom of its stroke then with the thumb you get the full stroke out of the pump. but alas they don't tell you this in the service manuals. S/V Que Pasa?
Squeeze bulbs?
How many of you have added an OB-type squeeze bulb between your tank and the primary? A number of people report great success with this addition, making fuel system bleeding much easier. What about you?
How many of you have added an OB-type squeeze bulb between your tank and the primary? A number of people report great success with this addition, making fuel system bleeding much easier. What about you?
Archives
I'll paraphrase what I remember in the archives - I looked but can't find the specific archive right now. Basically, there is a standard for safety (?) that the engine compartment should survive 2 minutes of fire without hoses melting etc (sure hope I have this right); anyways, a squeeze bulb wouldn't survive five seconds. Basically you can do it, but you're putting yourself at risk. Anyone with more (heck, some) knowledge (Stu?) could give a better answer; til I found the official warning in the archives, I thought a squeeze bulb was a great answer. Paul
I'll paraphrase what I remember in the archives - I looked but can't find the specific archive right now. Basically, there is a standard for safety (?) that the engine compartment should survive 2 minutes of fire without hoses melting etc (sure hope I have this right); anyways, a squeeze bulb wouldn't survive five seconds. Basically you can do it, but you're putting yourself at risk. Anyone with more (heck, some) knowledge (Stu?) could give a better answer; til I found the official warning in the archives, I thought a squeeze bulb was a great answer. Paul
Paul,
Check out this link,for less than $100 you can install an electric pump that works off a switch in the engine room for priming or backup for the enginge lift pump I installed mine after the primary fuel filter and before the lift pump and it works great. BTW I noticed they changed the pump but I'm sure the new design is just as good.
Check out this link,for less than $100 you can install an electric pump that works off a switch in the engine room for priming or backup for the enginge lift pump I installed mine after the primary fuel filter and before the lift pump and it works great. BTW I noticed they changed the pump but I'm sure the new design is just as good.
You can continue to spend over $100
or try this link, previously posted a number of times. A sqeeze bulb would melt, but it could be located, depending on your hoses, outside the engine room - the idea is to move fuel through, so it doesn't matter where it is. Given the mere $35 cost for the pump in this link, the amount of time and $$ spent installing a sqeeze bulb seems to decline in favor of a pump.
or try this link, previously posted a number of times. A sqeeze bulb would melt, but it could be located, depending on your hoses, outside the engine room - the idea is to move fuel through, so it doesn't matter where it is. Given the mere $35 cost for the pump in this link, the amount of time and $$ spent installing a sqeeze bulb seems to decline in favor of a pump.
Stu, thanks for the link
I tried connecting with NAPA, and it seems the pump has been modified/replaced/superceded. Their low pressure pump is now 60104, according to the Facet-Purolator website. But I like the idea of the electric pump. However, Barry kept me from visiting the boat today, but I'm dying to find out about this last 1/4" on the manual pump. Thanks for the help.
I tried connecting with NAPA, and it seems the pump has been modified/replaced/superceded. Their low pressure pump is now 60104, according to the Facet-Purolator website. But I like the idea of the electric pump. However, Barry kept me from visiting the boat today, but I'm dying to find out about this last 1/4" on the manual pump. Thanks for the help.
Primer on Primary
P, The 'primary' is the Racor (called the water separator), the 'secondary' is called the "lift-pump-filter" and on a Yanmar is oft a dealer item, some Worst Marines still carry the lil suckers though...they use to commonly carry lotta filters, a-4s, Farryman, Westerbekes, but the high profit moccasins and other wannabe gear got the better of 'em. The fishermen use the starter, works well if you have an experienced guy bleeding, a good method is to install a 12 auto-fuel-pump (this only for diesels) in the fuel line from the tank to the racor (or Wix etc) on the bulkhead.This system is a very workable and Ihave used it on three different peronal boats I owned.
P, The 'primary' is the Racor (called the water separator), the 'secondary' is called the "lift-pump-filter" and on a Yanmar is oft a dealer item, some Worst Marines still carry the lil suckers though...they use to commonly carry lotta filters, a-4s, Farryman, Westerbekes, but the high profit moccasins and other wannabe gear got the better of 'em. The fishermen use the starter, works well if you have an experienced guy bleeding, a good method is to install a 12 auto-fuel-pump (this only for diesels) in the fuel line from the tank to the racor (or Wix etc) on the bulkhead.This system is a very workable and Ihave used it on three different peronal boats I owned.
Warren...
after a few frustration sessions with the Racor pump last year, I added the squeeze bulb between the Racor and lift pump last weekend and it made bleeding the system fast and easy. I'm comfortable with the installation because I've cleaned up any possible safety issues and have a large Halon automatic extinguisher in the engine compartment that probably wouldn't allow five seconds of flame much less a conflagration of rubber melting proportions. There are two other ABC extinguishers within 3 feet of the engine box as well.
after a few frustration sessions with the Racor pump last year, I added the squeeze bulb between the Racor and lift pump last weekend and it made bleeding the system fast and easy. I'm comfortable with the installation because I've cleaned up any possible safety issues and have a large Halon automatic extinguisher in the engine compartment that probably wouldn't allow five seconds of flame much less a conflagration of rubber melting proportions. There are two other ABC extinguishers within 3 feet of the engine box as well.
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