removehtml]I was told that there is a recent requirement that diesel fuel line caps must be grounded. Anyone aware of the details.Error: Error: expected [/URL], but found [/removehtml] instead[/removehtml]
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Not even aware of the requirement!
Who thought this one up and why? My diesel engine receives fuel through rubber hoses and returns the bypass fuel through rubber hoses. Actually copper pipe most of the way but for a short span from engine to bulkhead I use rubber. (Or at least something that resembles rubber)
Who thought this one up and why? My diesel engine receives fuel through rubber hoses and returns the bypass fuel through rubber hoses. Actually copper pipe most of the way but for a short span from engine to bulkhead I use rubber. (Or at least something that resembles rubber)
Sounds familar...
something to do with a spark I think. Yet again... you can throw a match in a 5 gallon bucket of diesel... and it will go out. Go figure, Rich
something to do with a spark I think. Yet again... you can throw a match in a 5 gallon bucket of diesel... and it will go out. Go figure, Rich
Standards always change....
The standards for building, automobiles, airplanes, boats always continue to change. Hell they even changed the standards for gas cans and you can no longer use them to put a gallon of gas in your automobiles gas tank. Don't forget the new devices for your propane tanks that don't work either. Regardless if this is fact or fiction we are not going to go out and change everything on our vessels that do not meet the standards that some bureaucrap has been determined to save our lives.
The standards for building, automobiles, airplanes, boats always continue to change. Hell they even changed the standards for gas cans and you can no longer use them to put a gallon of gas in your automobiles gas tank. Don't forget the new devices for your propane tanks that don't work either. Regardless if this is fact or fiction we are not going to go out and change everything on our vessels that do not meet the standards that some bureaucrap has been determined to save our lives.
Look up ABYC section 7.9 on grounding and Fuel
Not sure its only for Gasoline fuel or both Diesel and Gas. I think the theory is that a spark from Static of hose could cause problems . I really thinks its a gasoline issue but anythings possible. I am pretty sure my '99 C36MKII has the fuel tank fill grounded. (Its Diesel) Here is what I found 7.9 Grounding 7.9.1 Each metal or metallic plated component of the fuel fill system and fuel tank that is in contact with the fuel must be grounded so that its resistance to the vessel ground is less than 1 ohm. 7.9.2 Ground wire ends shall not be clamped between the fill pipe and hose. 7.9.3 Static conductive neoprene tubing or piping that is used in lieu of metallic conductors shall be: (a) clearly marked as static conductive; and (b) installed in direct contact with non-painted attachment surfaces. After more research I have also found thius and the H-33 specs pertain specifically to Diesel ABYC STANDARD H-33 REQUIRES THAT METAL DECK PLATES BE GROUNDED TO THE METAL FUEL TANKS AND THEREBY TO THE ENGINE NEGATIVE GROUND TO PRECLUDE A BUILD UP OF STATIC ELECTRICITY AND POSSIBLY CAUSING A SPARK DURING FUELING OPERATIONS. PROPER GROUND COULD NOT BE VERIFIED WHEN RESISTANCE BETWEEN THE DECK PLATE AND A COMMON GROUND WERE METERED DURING INSPECTION. PROPER GROUND MUST BE PROVIDED TO COMPLY WITH THIS RECOMMENDED STANDARD.. Specifically go to 33.15 http://192.82.104.224/documents/standards/abyc/H-33.pdf Here are a few more links about the ABYC regulation http://www.tc.gc.ca/marinesafety/tp/tp1332/section7.htm#grounding http://www.boatus.com/foundation/Findings/findings40/links.htm#ESSENTIALS
Not sure its only for Gasoline fuel or both Diesel and Gas. I think the theory is that a spark from Static of hose could cause problems . I really thinks its a gasoline issue but anythings possible. I am pretty sure my '99 C36MKII has the fuel tank fill grounded. (Its Diesel) Here is what I found 7.9 Grounding 7.9.1 Each metal or metallic plated component of the fuel fill system and fuel tank that is in contact with the fuel must be grounded so that its resistance to the vessel ground is less than 1 ohm. 7.9.2 Ground wire ends shall not be clamped between the fill pipe and hose. 7.9.3 Static conductive neoprene tubing or piping that is used in lieu of metallic conductors shall be: (a) clearly marked as static conductive; and (b) installed in direct contact with non-painted attachment surfaces. After more research I have also found thius and the H-33 specs pertain specifically to Diesel ABYC STANDARD H-33 REQUIRES THAT METAL DECK PLATES BE GROUNDED TO THE METAL FUEL TANKS AND THEREBY TO THE ENGINE NEGATIVE GROUND TO PRECLUDE A BUILD UP OF STATIC ELECTRICITY AND POSSIBLY CAUSING A SPARK DURING FUELING OPERATIONS. PROPER GROUND COULD NOT BE VERIFIED WHEN RESISTANCE BETWEEN THE DECK PLATE AND A COMMON GROUND WERE METERED DURING INSPECTION. PROPER GROUND MUST BE PROVIDED TO COMPLY WITH THIS RECOMMENDED STANDARD.. Specifically go to 33.15 http://192.82.104.224/documents/standards/abyc/H-33.pdf Here are a few more links about the ABYC regulation http://www.tc.gc.ca/marinesafety/tp/tp1332/section7.htm#grounding http://www.boatus.com/foundation/Findings/findings40/links.htm#ESSENTIALS
The surveyor said....
That my boat should have a grounded fuel cap. He checked it and the results were inconclusive. There was a wire running from the fuel cap to ground it but he couldn't tell if it was grounded or not. He said that the line could have had a short in it but it could be working. My boat is a 1990 Catalina 30. I am pretty sure that the ground is working, but I am not going to loose any sleep over it. I have far better things to worry about (the ancor dragging, etc).
That my boat should have a grounded fuel cap. He checked it and the results were inconclusive. There was a wire running from the fuel cap to ground it but he couldn't tell if it was grounded or not. He said that the line could have had a short in it but it could be working. My boat is a 1990 Catalina 30. I am pretty sure that the ground is working, but I am not going to loose any sleep over it. I have far better things to worry about (the ancor dragging, etc).
Me Too
I just took a Diesel maintenance course and in going through the fuel system the instructor mentioned this also. I thought "oops, mine does not have that". I can see the need on a gasoline fuel system but from what I know about diesel, I realize not a lot, I did not see the need. I may do it just to be sure but low on the list.
I just took a Diesel maintenance course and in going through the fuel system the instructor mentioned this also. I thought "oops, mine does not have that". I can see the need on a gasoline fuel system but from what I know about diesel, I realize not a lot, I did not see the need. I may do it just to be sure but low on the list.
Fuel container grounding
My son's first day on the job as a launch opperator was an eye opener. He dropped two men off on a boat ,about 50yds away he hears a thump and turns to see the two men flying thru the air ,and the boat in flames . The cause ,two plastic gas cans that were transported in the back of a pickup with a plastic bed . Evendently static electricity built up ,and when they started to pour, Bamb. Don't know if a proper ground would have helped but be careful with plastic gas cans ! Oh by the way they were ok wet but ok .
My son's first day on the job as a launch opperator was an eye opener. He dropped two men off on a boat ,about 50yds away he hears a thump and turns to see the two men flying thru the air ,and the boat in flames . The cause ,two plastic gas cans that were transported in the back of a pickup with a plastic bed . Evendently static electricity built up ,and when they started to pour, Bamb. Don't know if a proper ground would have helped but be careful with plastic gas cans ! Oh by the way they were ok wet but ok .
Thanks for the replys
Thanks for the replys. I agree that I would not bother with the requirement, BUT SADLY, I am mearly 77 and have mobility problems and have put my Loral, Hunter 34, on the market. I would rather add the ground now than get it flagged by a buyer's surveyor. It's a sad day in paradise!
Thanks for the replys. I agree that I would not bother with the requirement, BUT SADLY, I am mearly 77 and have mobility problems and have put my Loral, Hunter 34, on the market. I would rather add the ground now than get it flagged by a buyer's surveyor. It's a sad day in paradise!
The requirement for a ground makes little mention of fuel type.
And then the last link, toward the bottom, recommends REMOVAL of the ground wire. In any case with diesel it's not needed. The ABYC standard is talking about bonding with metal parts. That's a different animal from a static spark causing an explosion. (that only happens to Atomic 4's
)
And then the last link, toward the bottom, recommends REMOVAL of the ground wire. In any case with diesel it's not needed. The ABYC standard is talking about bonding with metal parts. That's a different animal from a static spark causing an explosion. (that only happens to Atomic 4's
)
Fred, ABYC does mention the fuel type
ABYC Section H-33 is specifically for "DIESEL FUEL SYSTEMS" And Sub-Section H33.15 specifically address'"DIESEL FUEL SYSTEM GROUNDING" 33.15 FUEL SYSTEM GROUNDING 33.15.1 Each metal or metallic plated component of the fuel fill system that is in contact with the fuel and the fuel tank shall be grounded so that its resistance to the boat's ground is less than one ohm. 33.15.1.1 Bonding wires shall not be clamped between the fill pipes and the flexible hose. See ABYC E-9, Direct Current (DC) Electrical Systems for Boats. http://192.82.104.224/documents/standards/abyc/H-33.pdf H-24 is for Gasoline Fuel Systems http://192.82.104.224/documents/standards/abyc/h-24.pdf Now one would argue that the metal of the Fuel cap does not come "in contact with the fuel". Like I mentioned earlier my 1999 Catalina 36 Diesel Fuel Screw Deck Fill has a grounding wire attached on the underside. That section where is says not to bond the deck fill pertains specifically to PLASTIC deck fills. "Deck fill units that have a plastic body with metal components such as a metallic lid or metal retaining chain, are NOT to be grounded" If you want to be 100% ABYC approved for the year the boat was sold then all these little things have to be done and there are a million items to ABYC recommendations. All of them are there to make the boat safer. I am sure some are dubious, but I think ABYC would rather lean on the side of caution. Also note boat manufacturers do NOT have to be ABYC approved to sell a boat only comply to Coast Guard (which are absolutely minimal). But you can be almost certain the ABYC certified boat is going to be a lot safer.
ABYC Section H-33 is specifically for "DIESEL FUEL SYSTEMS" And Sub-Section H33.15 specifically address'"DIESEL FUEL SYSTEM GROUNDING" 33.15 FUEL SYSTEM GROUNDING 33.15.1 Each metal or metallic plated component of the fuel fill system that is in contact with the fuel and the fuel tank shall be grounded so that its resistance to the boat's ground is less than one ohm. 33.15.1.1 Bonding wires shall not be clamped between the fill pipes and the flexible hose. See ABYC E-9, Direct Current (DC) Electrical Systems for Boats. http://192.82.104.224/documents/standards/abyc/H-33.pdf H-24 is for Gasoline Fuel Systems http://192.82.104.224/documents/standards/abyc/h-24.pdf Now one would argue that the metal of the Fuel cap does not come "in contact with the fuel". Like I mentioned earlier my 1999 Catalina 36 Diesel Fuel Screw Deck Fill has a grounding wire attached on the underside. That section where is says not to bond the deck fill pertains specifically to PLASTIC deck fills. "Deck fill units that have a plastic body with metal components such as a metallic lid or metal retaining chain, are NOT to be grounded" If you want to be 100% ABYC approved for the year the boat was sold then all these little things have to be done and there are a million items to ABYC recommendations. All of them are there to make the boat safer. I am sure some are dubious, but I think ABYC would rather lean on the side of caution. Also note boat manufacturers do NOT have to be ABYC approved to sell a boat only comply to Coast Guard (which are absolutely minimal). But you can be almost certain the ABYC certified boat is going to be a lot safer.
I have been wanting to get hold of ABYC stds for a while
But on their website they try to extort a donation out of you for the various chapters/components. I noticed that the gasoline one was from 1996 and the diesel (named after a German fellow named Diesel) one was from 7/98. So thanks for the links Tom S by the way. I am certain that the ABYC has adjusted some of these standards since the date on your files. Perhaps the new requirement is for an all plastic gas caps as are on most recent automobiles these days. Does anyone else remember all the old metal gas caps of the classic cars of the 1960s on? Back then I used to be able to use a gas can just fine until recently and as Steve Dion points out you actually used to be able to empty a gas can neatly into the tank with very little effort (pull top off, pour, put cap back on). Nowadays gas cans have a fancy mechanism that is supposed to help reduce spillage by not allowing much gas out of the spout. I really like Capt. Ed's son's story while first day on the job as a launch operator and I do not doubt that it happened. So how do you ground a plastic gas can? In this case maybe it wasn't the gas can that needed to be grounded. On to Fred and the Atomic 4 and, heavens, gasoline engines. I thought that Fred had a hot rod, a Camaro perhaps, and was a bit of an engine head for cars. Maybe not much of a tractor driver though. Similar engines to the A4 have been and were used for years on farm equipment, trucks and a whole list of other applications before you were born perhaps. They could even still be used to power a ski-lift near you for all you know (that would explain all the mid lift stoppages - ha ha). Are they the best engines? No. Would I prefer a diesel on my boat? Yes, if I could afford it. Do I like my A4 engine? Yes, as it is the devil I have and has not broken it's main shaft yet, as, apparently yours did. As always, thanks for your input. On the subject of gas engines in sailboats and grounding the fuel fill cover I say ask a local farmer near you what he does. Then talk to ABYC and go figure. somewhere in between.
But on their website they try to extort a donation out of you for the various chapters/components. I noticed that the gasoline one was from 1996 and the diesel (named after a German fellow named Diesel) one was from 7/98. So thanks for the links Tom S by the way. I am certain that the ABYC has adjusted some of these standards since the date on your files. Perhaps the new requirement is for an all plastic gas caps as are on most recent automobiles these days. Does anyone else remember all the old metal gas caps of the classic cars of the 1960s on? Back then I used to be able to use a gas can just fine until recently and as Steve Dion points out you actually used to be able to empty a gas can neatly into the tank with very little effort (pull top off, pour, put cap back on). Nowadays gas cans have a fancy mechanism that is supposed to help reduce spillage by not allowing much gas out of the spout. I really like Capt. Ed's son's story while first day on the job as a launch operator and I do not doubt that it happened. So how do you ground a plastic gas can? In this case maybe it wasn't the gas can that needed to be grounded. On to Fred and the Atomic 4 and, heavens, gasoline engines. I thought that Fred had a hot rod, a Camaro perhaps, and was a bit of an engine head for cars. Maybe not much of a tractor driver though. Similar engines to the A4 have been and were used for years on farm equipment, trucks and a whole list of other applications before you were born perhaps. They could even still be used to power a ski-lift near you for all you know (that would explain all the mid lift stoppages - ha ha). Are they the best engines? No. Would I prefer a diesel on my boat? Yes, if I could afford it. Do I like my A4 engine? Yes, as it is the devil I have and has not broken it's main shaft yet, as, apparently yours did. As always, thanks for your input. On the subject of gas engines in sailboats and grounding the fuel fill cover I say ask a local farmer near you what he does. Then talk to ABYC and go figure. somewhere in between.
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