Frozen Pink Antifreeze

[Jose Venegas]

Garry, I am afraid...

that your are misreading the information in the web site. The percentage that you mention in your posting is that of Propylene Glycol and not of WaterNote that the mixture with most water has the highest freezing point (-20) and the less water you add the lower the freezing point. PG H2O Freezding pointt40 % 60 % -20°C 50 % 50 % -32°C60 % 40 % -48°C66 % 34 % -59°C *pop

 

[Garry @ S/V TASHTEGO]

Jose and Dragonfly

Jose, my table is the same as yours. Read it again.Dragonfly, the labels for these antifreezes indicate that they are pre-diluted to the minimum freezing point. But others have frozen antifreeze. Something is wrong here. I'll try my plastic bottle test this weekend and let you know.

 

[patrick]

Yikes! It is worse than I thought

The freeze point will increase (as in get warmer) with the addition of water. That means that it will freeze sooner if the temperature starts to get cold.Slush is not a eutectic mixture. You can separate (purify) the glycol from frozen slush by using a strainer to remove the ice (ie: frozen water).Glycols do not loose their effectiveness for antifreeze unless they are too diluted. Coolants will lose their anticorrosion properties and the leak stop additives may become ineffective over time. Unless it is diluted the antifreeze will still work. You can add anticorrosion and antileak compounds to overcome that loss.It is not complicated - coolant antifreeze does two things. It decreases the freeze point and elevates the boiling point. The more antifreeze, the more that range increases.

 

[Tim McCarty]

Haven't read all of the threads here, but...

I left a couple of bottles of redpop on the boat for utility usage, and, lo and behold, the crap froze in the bottle...so much for low cost red pop...I'm going with blue pop or purple pop...

 

[Tom Ehmke]

Garry's experiment

Garry, I think it was you who passed along the antifreeze experiment to me when I was concerned at haulout about the residual water in my sea water cooling system diluting the antifreeze.  As Garry suggested I pumped the antifreeze ( what I used is the -60 F. stuff) through the system and recovered the solution discharged through the exhaust in a 5 gal. bucket. Then I poured it into 3 bottles. One is setting in my garage. One is just outside the garage where it is exposed to the wind chill and the last one is in my freezer. I stuck a thermometer in the freezer as Garry suggested. That was my control.  Here in NW Ohio we have had some -0 F. days and the bottle outside the garage has gone to thick slush a few times. The stuff in the garage out of the wind has remained a liquid. The stuff in the freezer needs a little shaking but is still slush at -5 F. My conclusion is that if what I have in the bottles is ok, what is in the engine and bilge is also ok if not a little bit better because what is in there right now probably doesn't have as much water in it as what I have in the bottles. My guess is that what is in the garage pretty closely approximates what is going on inside the engine where there is no wind chill.My $.02 worth of practical science..Thank you, Garry,Tom

 

[Alan]

Easiest Solution(pun intended)

When winterizing your engine, run one gallon of 50/50 mix green and H2O. All the water pipes for head, shower and sink should be drained and blown out with compressed air like your lawn sprinlkers. No water, no worries!

 

[Bob B.]

Much Confusion

I hesitate to bring this post back to life because it has been flogged to death. I will not use the glycol word. oops. Instead, I would like to address the confusion word. It is obvious that many people can read the same words & arrive at many different conclusions. We all need to keep an open mind just in case we might in fact be wrong. I should know because I am ofter told that I am wrong. Need to get used to it. Many of the responses to this topic IMHO are correct, some are not. I like to keep things simple as the scientific stuff goes way over my head.Having said that, I will renege & offer my solution to the solutions in question. In general there are 2 types of antifreeze:1. For liquid cooled engines, use automotive  antifreeze (coolant) in the engine block. Mix 50/50 for good freeze & boil  protection. Water has the best heat transfer rate. I don't know about marine heat exchanger systems.  2. For plumbing, use RV (plumbing) antifreeze  full strength. Don't worry mon, be happy Regards, Bob B.

 

[patrick]

A guy from Edmonton

would probably know about antifreeze....How cold is it there?We got some (1-2 inches) snow 5 days ago and in spite of lots of sunshine since and 50 degree temperatures there is still some in my yard. It has been so sunny and warm, I must have spring fever.

 

[John]

Thanks for all the responses. Having been away for the last week I just read the responses. What I have used this year and all years past is the pink -50 antifreezefrom my marine store which comes prediluted and I use it at full strength right from the bottle. I found it frozen solid two weeks ago and yes it appears not to expand much. However, I will not use it again as I believe it is not giving me the protection it states on the bottle and I hope I do not have damage especially in my engine. I am very careful to pump out water from tanks hoses and engine and ran through the pink antifreeze steadily until it came out at full pink color to make sure it was not diluted.

 

[chuckwayne]

antifreeze-still!

Good summary, Bob, but....just to add to the confusion, there are two types of automotive antifreeze, the (usually) green older stuff that has silicates to improve heat transfer, and the newer (usually) orange long life stuff that is silicate free. YOU CANNOT MIX THE TWO! If you do, the additives will react and turn it to a brownish sludge that can totally clog your engine (trust me, this is from personal experience). Newer Hunters changed to the orange long life (I think in 2003) based on Yanmar's reccomendations. Yanmar also recommends you convert earlier engines because the silicate free stuff is better for aluminum. To do that, you must repeatedly flush the system with fresh water until all traces of the old AF are gone.

 

[Alan]

Chuck, a question?

Where is there aluminum in a Yanmar engine?

 

[Rick D]

Good Question Alan

I think it varies by model. I know the valve cover is on mine as well as some accessory parts. Here is a description from the 3 series:LightweightCompact design iron block and head feature close space cylinders to save space and weight. Extensive use of aluminium alloys in oil pan, covers, and in many parts make for good weight savings.That's not as specific as you wanted, but I also think some models have aluminum in the heat exchanger too.Rick D.

 

[chuckwayne]

aluminum in yanmars

Rick's right, the specific bulletin I read was about aluminum in the heat exchanger, so the antifreeze is in contact with it constantly

 

[Bob B.]

Patrick. You are right, antifreeze is

essential to life in Edmonton. Everyone here owns an antifreeze tester. But I have to tell you that we have about 6" of snow on the ground & 3' piled up along the driveway. Pay attention now, the temperature today was 10.5 degrees C. I know that you folks don't do the C thing so you'll have to do the conversion.We have a group trying for a Guiness World Record outdoor hockey game. This record is for duration & the warm weather (among other things) is making it a challenge. This is to raise funds for cancer research.The main organizer is a doctor & goalie. He was repairing his old Zamboni the night before the start of the game (4:00 AM) & cut the end of a finger off in the auger. He must have connections (or reconnections) because he went into surgery immediately to close up the wound & was on the ice for the game start. Dedication or what? John. More confusion when you say "pink -50 antifreeze which comes prediluted used at full strength". No, no not for engines! What coolant do you use in the engine during the sailing season? Most car engines & cooling systems have aluminum parts. Some car antifreezes are advertised as being better for aluminum. Could be, don't know.Bob B.

 

[patrick]

10.5 C is about 51 F

as best as I can figure it and I imagine that is a heat wave for you guys. Is that normal or have you been out driving the hummer and causing global warming? I am doing my part. Just 8 - 10 degrees warmer is all I want. We probably would not need antifreeze then. Plus we might have salt waterfront property then. We could anchor the boat next to the house.Is hockey a game you do when it is so warm? I have heard that you guys like to scoot rocks on the ice for some reason or another with great care and precision. I cannot imagine why but I guess the cold has its effects.Hope the doc is ok. Did he take an ethanol bolus for his finger?

 

[Bob B.]

Patrick. 10.5 C was an all time warm record

for that date. Only a couple of Hummers in town.Hockey is usually played on an ice surface unless using roller skates & a ball.You are correct about some of us guys "skooting rocks on ice etc." These guys take the game very seriously. Much sliding, shouting, sweeping & often drinking copious amounts of liquids after the game to prevent dehydration.The Doc is OK. Losing part of a finger is no big deal. Although some are more important than others. The players could be using some form of ethanol antifreeze. Most of these guys have had their lives touched by cancer & are a very determined bunch. The weather has turned colder so they should be able to finish their 10 day game. Google search www.worldslongestgame.com for the details. They also hope to make a pile of money for cancer research. Like $200,000. Bob B.

 

[patrick]

Desperate times call for desperate measures

When it is sooo bloody cold and all you have is a few rocks and a lot of ice, you do what you must. I can kind of understand how that would happen. How do you think US football came to be? The funny shaped ball is not found in nature so it may be just some really slick marketing by somebody who had to do something to save his butt for some manufacturing defect. That is my best explanation.I hope your cancer project goes well. I have lost my mother, two sisters, and one neice to cancer and my dad is in remission for the last few years. I will look up your site and maybe kick in a little.Only thing to add (just to keep on the topic at hand) is that if you come across any puddles in your neck of the woods, just remember that they are to be cherished not drunk from.