Fresh Water System Commissioning Question

Oct 1, 2007
1,858
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
Hi Peggie:
I'm sure you have answered this many times, so I'd appreciate you just pointing me to a link!
My question involves commissioning of Maxine's FW system. In winterizing, I use the method for lay up where I drain all the FW out of the system, drain and by-pass the HW heater, dump 4 Gal of potable water AF into each 75 Gal FW tank, then pump the stuff to each faucet (4 sets on Maxine) until it is very discernible. Over the last 11 years 4 Gal in each tank has proven to be the right amount and never had a problem in 11 years.(knock wood!)
In commissioning, I fill each tank about half way 2-3 times and empty out. Usually this procedure removes most of the AF and makes the water reasonable for coffee and other uses, but not drinking. But this year I would like to do a more thorough commissioning involving Clorox, vinegar, or whatever.
So after that long winded description, could you please point me to a previous post or link?
Thanks and best regards,
Rick
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
But this year I would like to do a more thorough commissioning involving Clorox, vinegar, or whatever.
So after that long winded description, could you please point me to a previous post or link?
I'll do better than that...I'll post the directions again. If you have my book, you'll also find them in it:

FRESH WATER MAINTENANCE (excerpt from "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors)
Although most people think only in terms of the tank, the plumbing is actually the source of most foul water, because the molds, mildew, fungi and bacteria which cause it thrive in damp dark places, not under water. There are all kinds of products sold that claim to keep onboard water fresh, but all that’s really necessary is an annual or in especially warm climates, semi-annual recommissioning of the entire system—tank and plumbing. The following recommendations conform to section 10.8 in the A-1 192 code covering electrical, plumbing, and heating of recreational vehicles. The solution is approved and recommended by competent health officials. It may be used in a new system a used one that has not been used for a period of time, or one that may have been contaminated.

Before beginning, turn off hot water heater at the breaker; do not turn it on again until the entire recommissioning is complete and all bleach solution has been flushed out of it. Icemakers should be left running to allow cleaning out of the water feed line; however the first two buckets of ice—the bucket generated during recommissioning and the first bucketful afterward--should be discarded…bleach does absolutely nothing to improve the flavor of good Scotch!

1. Prepare a chlorine solution using one gallon of water and 1/4 cup (2 oz or 25 ml) Clorox or Purex household bleach (5% sodium Hypochlorite solution ). With tank empty, pour chlorine solution into tank. Use one gallon of solution for each 5 gallons of tank capacity. (Those are the “official” directions. They work out to 1 quart or litre of bleach/50 gallons of water tank capacity , which is MUCH easier to calculate!)
2. Complete filling of tank with fresh water. Open each faucet and drain cock until air has been released and the entire system is filled. Do not turn off the pump; it must remain on to keep the system pressurized and the solution in the lines.
3. Allow to stand for at least three hours, but no longer than 24 hours.
4 Drain through every faucet on the boat (and if you haven't done this in a while, it's a good idea to remove any diffusion screens from the faucets, because what's likely to come out will clog them). Fill the tank again with fresh water only, drain again through every faucet on the boat.
5. To remove excess chlorine taste or odor which might remain, prepare a solution of one quart white vinegar to five gallons water and allow this solution to agitate in tank for several days by vessel motion.
6. Drain tank again through every faucet, and flush the lines again by filing the tank 1/4-1/2 full and again flushing with potable water.

People have expressed concern about using this method to recommission aluminum tanks. While bleach (chlorine) IS corrosive, its effects are cumulative. So the effect of an annual or semi-annual "shock treatment" is negligible compared to the cumulative effect of holding chlorinated city water in the tank for years. And it’s that cumulative effect that makes it a VERY bad idea to add a little bleach to each fill. Not only does it damage the system, but unless you add enough to make your water taste and smell like a laundry, it’s not enough to do any good. Even if it were, any “purifying” properties in chlorine evaporate within 24 hours, leaving behind only the corrosive properties. Nevertheless, it's a good idea to mix the total amount of bleach needed for recommissioning in a few gallons of water before putting it into an empty stainless or aluminum tank.

An annual or semi-annual recommissioning according to the above directions is all that should be necessary to keep your water tasting and smelling as good as anything that comes out of any faucet on land. If you need to improve on that, install a water filter. Just remember that a filter is not a substitute for cleaning out the system, and that filters require regular inspection and cleaning or replacement.

To keep the water system cleaner longer, USE your fresh water...keep water flowing through system. The molds, fungi, and bacteria only start to grow in hoses that aren't being used. Before filling the tank each time, always let the dock water run for at least 15 minutes first...the same critters that like the lines on your boat LOVE the dock supply line and your hose that sit in the warm sun, and you certainly don't want to transfer water that's been sitting in the dock supply line to your boat's system. So let the water run long enough to flush out all the water that's been standing in them so that what goes into your boat is coming straight from the water main.

--Peggie
 
Oct 1, 2007
1,858
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
Thank you so much Peggie. I'll take a look on Amazon for your book.
Best regards,
Rick

PS: Amazon had it. Pushed the button. On the way!
 
Last edited:

NYSail

.
Jan 6, 2006
3,064
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
This year I blew my lines with a compressor. For winterizing...... did my typical tank cleaning routine, removed all fixtures then blew lines. I brought all the fixtures home to soak in vinegar and clean out mineralization. Very happy with the results. I always have very clean water, but now do not have to contend with the af.

Greg
 
May 10, 2008
392
Catalina 355 Boston
I'll do better than that...I'll post the directions again. If you have my book, you'll also find them in it:

FRESH WATER MAINTENANCE (excerpt from "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors)
Although most people think only in terms of the tank, the plumbing is actually the source of most foul water, because the molds, mildew, fungi and bacteria which cause it thrive in damp dark places, not under water. There are all kinds of products sold that claim to keep onboard water fresh, but all that’s really necessary is an annual or in especially warm climates, semi-annual recommissioning of the entire system—tank and plumbing. The following recommendations conform to section 10.8 in the A-1 192 code covering electrical, plumbing, and heating of recreational vehicles. The solution is approved and recommended by competent health officials. It may be used in a new system a used one that has not been used for a period of time, or one that may have been contaminated.

Before beginning, turn off hot water heater at the breaker; do not turn it on again until the entire recommissioning is complete and all bleach solution has been flushed out of it. Icemakers should be left running to allow cleaning out of the water feed line; however the first two buckets of ice—the bucket generated during recommissioning and the first bucketful afterward--should be discarded…bleach does absolutely nothing to improve the flavor of good Scotch!

1. Prepare a chlorine solution using one gallon of water and 1/4 cup (2 oz or 25 ml) Clorox or Purex household bleach (5% sodium Hypochlorite solution ). With tank empty, pour chlorine solution into tank. Use one gallon of solution for each 5 gallons of tank capacity. (Those are the “official” directions. They work out to 1 quart or litre of bleach/50 gallons of water tank capacity , which is MUCH easier to calculate!)
2. Complete filling of tank with fresh water. Open each faucet and drain cock until air has been released and the entire system is filled. Do not turn off the pump; it must remain on to keep the system pressurized and the solution in the lines.
3. Allow to stand for at least three hours, but no longer than 24 hours.
4 Drain through every faucet on the boat (and if you haven't done this in a while, it's a good idea to remove any diffusion screens from the faucets, because what's likely to come out will clog them). Fill the tank again with fresh water only, drain again through every faucet on the boat.
5. To remove excess chlorine taste or odor which might remain, prepare a solution of one quart white vinegar to five gallons water and allow this solution to agitate in tank for several days by vessel motion.
6. Drain tank again through every faucet, and flush the lines again by filing the tank 1/4-1/2 full and again flushing with potable water.

People have expressed concern about using this method to recommission aluminum tanks. While bleach (chlorine) IS corrosive, its effects are cumulative. So the effect of an annual or semi-annual "shock treatment" is negligible compared to the cumulative effect of holding chlorinated city water in the tank for years. And it’s that cumulative effect that makes it a VERY bad idea to add a little bleach to each fill. Not only does it damage the system, but unless you add enough to make your water taste and smell like a laundry, it’s not enough to do any good. Even if it were, any “purifying” properties in chlorine evaporate within 24 hours, leaving behind only the corrosive properties. Nevertheless, it's a good idea to mix the total amount of bleach needed for recommissioning in a few gallons of water before putting it into an empty stainless or aluminum tank.

An annual or semi-annual recommissioning according to the above directions is all that should be necessary to keep your water tasting and smelling as good as anything that comes out of any faucet on land. If you need to improve on that, install a water filter. Just remember that a filter is not a substitute for cleaning out the system, and that filters require regular inspection and cleaning or replacement.

To keep the water system cleaner longer, USE your fresh water...keep water flowing through system. The molds, fungi, and bacteria only start to grow in hoses that aren't being used. Before filling the tank each time, always let the dock water run for at least 15 minutes first...the same critters that like the lines on your boat LOVE the dock supply line and your hose that sit in the warm sun, and you certainly don't want to transfer water that's been sitting in the dock supply line to your boat's system. So let the water run long enough to flush out all the water that's been standing in them so that what goes into your boat is coming straight from the water main.

--Peggie
I’ve been using this process for years with great results. Just want to point out that you should pay attention to the Chlorine concentration. Many bottles are now an 8% solution so the ratio should be adjusted accordingly.
I personally prefer Puriclean to bleach but it is very hard to find in the States these days. Thanks as always Peggie!
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
For this purpose I can't see a significant difference between 7% and 8%. The instruction specify Clorox or Purex because bargain and "green" brands are often only about 5%--not strong enough to get the job done. And it should go without saying that you should only use "plain" bleach...not any of scented, thickened or otherwise "improved" versions.
--Peggie
 

Ward H

.
Nov 7, 2011
3,651
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
@Peggie Hall HeadMistress
Last season was our first with our C30 and while I followed your directions for Fresh Water Maintenance, we mostly day sailed and used bottle water. We just didn't trust the on board fresh water.

This year we plan on several overnights so we'll have a need for the on board fresh water.
I have a port on the water tanks so I can scrub them out and flush until clean.
When owning a 26 year old boat with questionable previous maintenance on the fresh water system, is there any benefit in changing out the fresh water hoses?

While our C30 has two tanks for a total of 50 gallon capacity, I do plan to use just the 25 gallon tank so the fresh water turns over quicker.
 
Jan 7, 2011
4,777
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
My fill hoses look pretty grungy. Water pipes are gray “pex-like”. I can’t imagine much grunge would stick in those.

I added washout / inspection ports to my 2) 30-gallon water tanks, makes looking in them easy. But they are baffled, so I can only see about half of each tank.

Greg
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,423
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
We always fill our tanks through the inspection ports and not the deck fill. A brass shut off valve was added to the dedicated potable water hose to better control the flow. This way we avoid contaminating the tank with any crud growing in the fill hose.

For general use, i.e, washing hands, dishwater, bodies, etc. we use the water straight from the tank. For drinking water and coffee water we use a Brita Filter. That removes a lot of stuff from the water and it tastes fine. We haven't gotten sick yet. :)

A year or two ago, Practical Sailor reviewed various methods of filtering water and cleaning the tanks. If you have a subscription it is worth reading. Before we do the "Big Trip" I'll probably add an inline filter and one that can filter some of the biological contaminates.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
I think DJ answered your question, Ward.

We always fill our tanks through the inspection ports and not the deck fill. A brass shut off valve was added to the dedicated potable water hose to better control the flow. This way we avoid contaminating the tank with any crud growing in the fill hose.
If you let the water run long until it's "fresh" from the water main (you'll know because it's a lot colder than the water left sitting in the hoses--the dock supply line and YOUR hose), there won't be any crud in 'em.
For general use, i.e, washing hands, dishwater, bodies, etc. we use the water straight from the tank. For drinking water and coffee water we use a Brita Filter. That removes a lot of stuff from the water and it tastes fine...Before we do the "Big Trip" I'll probably add an inline filter and one that can filter some of the biological contaminates.
There's no need to filter shower water, toilet flush water, dish water...only drinking and maybe cooking. So instead of messing with a Brita or installing an inline filter, why not just put a faucet filter on the galley sink? But just remember that a filter should be in addition to annual recomissioning, not as a substitute for it.

--Peggie
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,423
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
There's no need to filter shower water, toilet flush water, dish water...only drinking and maybe cooking. So instead of messing with a Brita or installing an inline filter, why not just put a faucet filter on the galley sink? But just remember that a filter should be in addition to annual recomissioning, not as a substitute for it.
We just fill the Brita when it is empty and leave it in the refrigerator. If we add a filter to the tap, then we would be washing dishes and our hands with filtered water. My concern is traveling we might end up with water that has some biologic contamination that the Brita won't take out. So the filter would be designed to take out the critters like giardia.

When I referred to the fill line, I meant the deck fill, from the deck to the tank, not the hose and marina plumbing. And I do let the water run for a while before filling the tank.
 
Mar 3, 2003
710
Hunter 356 Grand Rivers
Look at SafeH20 system - safh2ouv.com I put mine after the pump and before the manifold, so all water is filtered from the tank forward. It has a .1 micron filter, then .5 micron carbon filter and a 14 watt UV light. You can get the unit to run on 12 or 120 Volts. I run mine off the water pump so when the pump runs, the UV light is on. It might be overkill but I have seen transient people at my home marina use the pump out hose to fill their tanks. You just never know what may be in the water if you are cruising. It cost $225 initially and $53 per,year to replace the filters and uv light. I recommission using Peggy’s routine, then change out all components. Have good pure water for everything and have no worries. Cheap price for the security it brings.
 
Last edited:
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Oct 1, 2007
1,858
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
I'll do better than that...I'll post the directions again. If you have my book, you'll also find them in it:

FRESH WATER MAINTENANCE (excerpt from "The NEW Get Rid of Boat Odors)
Although most people think only in terms of the tank, the plumbing is actually the source of most foul water, because the molds, mildew, fungi and bacteria which cause it thrive in damp dark places, not under water. There are all kinds of products sold that claim to keep onboard water fresh, but all that’s really necessary is an annual or in especially warm climates, semi-annual recommissioning of the entire system—tank and plumbing. The following recommendations conform to section 10.8 in the A-1 192 code covering electrical, plumbing, and heating of recreational vehicles. The solution is approved and recommended by competent health officials. It may be used in a new system a used one that has not been used for a period of time, or one that may have been contaminated.

Before beginning, turn off hot water heater at the breaker; do not turn it on again until the entire recommissioning is complete and all bleach solution has been flushed out of it. Icemakers should be left running to allow cleaning out of the water feed line; however the first two buckets of ice—the bucket generated during recommissioning and the first bucketful afterward--should be discarded…bleach does absolutely nothing to improve the flavor of good Scotch!

1. Prepare a chlorine solution using one gallon of water and 1/4 cup (2 oz or 25 ml) Clorox or Purex household bleach (5% sodium Hypochlorite solution ). With tank empty, pour chlorine solution into tank. Use one gallon of solution for each 5 gallons of tank capacity. (Those are the “official” directions. They work out to 1 quart or litre of bleach/50 gallons of water tank capacity , which is MUCH easier to calculate!)
2. Complete filling of tank with fresh water. Open each faucet and drain cock until air has been released and the entire system is filled. Do not turn off the pump; it must remain on to keep the system pressurized and the solution in the lines.
3. Allow to stand for at least three hours, but no longer than 24 hours.
4 Drain through every faucet on the boat (and if you haven't done this in a while, it's a good idea to remove any diffusion screens from the faucets, because what's likely to come out will clog them). Fill the tank again with fresh water only, drain again through every faucet on the boat.
5. To remove excess chlorine taste or odor which might remain, prepare a solution of one quart white vinegar to five gallons water and allow this solution to agitate in tank for several days by vessel motion.
6. Drain tank again through every faucet, and flush the lines again by filing the tank 1/4-1/2 full and again flushing with potable water.

People have expressed concern about using this method to recommission aluminum tanks. While bleach (chlorine) IS corrosive, its effects are cumulative. So the effect of an annual or semi-annual "shock treatment" is negligible compared to the cumulative effect of holding chlorinated city water in the tank for years. And it’s that cumulative effect that makes it a VERY bad idea to add a little bleach to each fill. Not only does it damage the system, but unless you add enough to make your water taste and smell like a laundry, it’s not enough to do any good. Even if it were, any “purifying” properties in chlorine evaporate within 24 hours, leaving behind only the corrosive properties. Nevertheless, it's a good idea to mix the total amount of bleach needed for recommissioning in a few gallons of water before putting it into an empty stainless or aluminum tank.

An annual or semi-annual recommissioning according to the above directions is all that should be necessary to keep your water tasting and smelling as good as anything that comes out of any faucet on land. If you need to improve on that, install a water filter. Just remember that a filter is not a substitute for cleaning out the system, and that filters require regular inspection and cleaning or replacement.

To keep the water system cleaner longer, USE your fresh water...keep water flowing through system. The molds, fungi, and bacteria only start to grow in hoses that aren't being used. Before filling the tank each time, always let the dock water run for at least 15 minutes first...the same critters that like the lines on your boat LOVE the dock supply line and your hose that sit in the warm sun, and you certainly don't want to transfer water that's been sitting in the dock supply line to your boat's system. So let the water run long enough to flush out all the water that's been standing in them so that what goes into your boat is coming straight from the water main.

--Peggie
Hi Peggie:
I followed the procedure verbatim and I am very happy with the results. The water from the tanks is odorless and crystal clear.
Thanks again
Rick