Not too long ago, I replaced the manual pump water faucets in my 78 H-27 with electric models. Installed two pumps, one for the galley and one for the head. All was well for about two weeks, until the faucets ceased functioning. My first thought was that there was sediment collected in the tank and the pumps had been clogged, so I drained the tank with a wet-vac, refilled and reprimed. The faucets worked . . . sort of, but would quit after 5 to 10 seconds of use. After waiting another 5 to 10 seconds, I'd push the start button and water would flow, but again, only for about 5 to 10 seconds. Today I took off all the hoses and blew them out, thinkng there might be sediment fouling the lines somewhere. But when I would start either pump, I noted that there were alot of air bubbles in the line before the pumps. When first activating the tap, water would flow, then slow to a trickle, then stop altogether. When it was running, there was no air in the pre-pump line, but each time it stopped I noticed that there were lots of air bubbles just before the pump. I checked to make sure that there were no cracks in the water line and that all connections were secure, no problem there. Also, I noted that the original water tank is not vented. As the water would flow, I could hear the tank "imploding" as the pumps sucked water out of the tank. At any rate, I drained the tank twice, so I think most of the sediment is gone or negligible, but my question is should the tank be vented? And if so, how? Perhaps with the original manual pump spiggots there wasn't a vacuum created, but for sure with the electric ones, it doesn't take long for the tank to groan with the top fill cap screwed on tight. Any suggestions will be appreciated! Neil Smith Ciao Bella '78 H-27
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Paul R. Mitchell
Pump Check
Neil, You can check for to see if the tank isn't venting and causing a vacuum easily. Leave the deck fill open or open the tank inspection port, then run the pump. Where are these pumps located? Are they below the level of the water in the tank? If they're above the tank water level maybe they don't have a good suction. Check that all hose connection in the pump suctions are sealed so the pumps don't suck air. Paul s/v Dilemma
Neil, You can check for to see if the tank isn't venting and causing a vacuum easily. Leave the deck fill open or open the tank inspection port, then run the pump. Where are these pumps located? Are they below the level of the water in the tank? If they're above the tank water level maybe they don't have a good suction. Check that all hose connection in the pump suctions are sealed so the pumps don't suck air. Paul s/v Dilemma
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nelson conner
fresh water system
Why do you need two pumps? One is all that is required for a small system. Two would buck against each other.
Why do you need two pumps? One is all that is required for a small system. Two would buck against each other.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
ABsolutely the tank should be vented!
What's almost certainly happening is: the pumps are pulling vacuum...and when that happens, they can't pump water. There ARE unvented tanks...however, they're either bladders that are sucked in as water is drawn out, or they have lids on 'em that aren't sealed...so air gets in between the lid and the top of the tank (those are usually fiberglass btw...and are often itegral to hull). From the description of you problem, it sounds as if somebody took the lid off to clean out the tank, then carefully made sure to seal it when they put it back on. The short term "band aid" solution is, Open your deck fill to let some air in...I'll bet faucets will work just fine. But the permanent solution is to add a vent.
What's almost certainly happening is: the pumps are pulling vacuum...and when that happens, they can't pump water. There ARE unvented tanks...however, they're either bladders that are sucked in as water is drawn out, or they have lids on 'em that aren't sealed...so air gets in between the lid and the top of the tank (those are usually fiberglass btw...and are often itegral to hull). From the description of you problem, it sounds as if somebody took the lid off to clean out the tank, then carefully made sure to seal it when they put it back on. The short term "band aid" solution is, Open your deck fill to let some air in...I'll bet faucets will work just fine. But the permanent solution is to add a vent.
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Neil Smith
thanks
Thanks all for your input. There isn't a fill valve on decks, just the opening in the tank itself under the vee-berths. The cap on that is not vented, so what I did this morning is drill a 1/8" hole in the top of the pvc cap and attached a rubber flap to the inside of the cap. This should prevent water sloshing out of the cap, but let air vent into the tank. As to why two pumps, the hoses coming out of the tank connect to a "t" before they go through the bulkhead into the access area under the v-berths. Since two lines came out through that bulkhead and there simply wasn't room between the tank and the "t", I elected to install two. Maybe overkill, but sure was alot easier to install given the limited space. Again, thanks to all, seems to be working now that there's a vent the tank has been flushed an additional 3 times to remove all sediment. Neil Smith Ciao Bella '78 H-27
Thanks all for your input. There isn't a fill valve on decks, just the opening in the tank itself under the vee-berths. The cap on that is not vented, so what I did this morning is drill a 1/8" hole in the top of the pvc cap and attached a rubber flap to the inside of the cap. This should prevent water sloshing out of the cap, but let air vent into the tank. As to why two pumps, the hoses coming out of the tank connect to a "t" before they go through the bulkhead into the access area under the v-berths. Since two lines came out through that bulkhead and there simply wasn't room between the tank and the "t", I elected to install two. Maybe overkill, but sure was alot easier to install given the limited space. Again, thanks to all, seems to be working now that there's a vent the tank has been flushed an additional 3 times to remove all sediment. Neil Smith Ciao Bella '78 H-27
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Ed Schenck
Wonder why no vent?
The plumbing diagram for your boat(link below) shows both a vent and a deck fill. Both on a portside v-berth tank. I guess someone changed yours.
The plumbing diagram for your boat(link below) shows both a vent and a deck fill. Both on a portside v-berth tank. I guess someone changed yours.
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Marcus Hart
I had the same problem...
... on my 78 27. The problem is that the pump is not low enough. I finally mounted the pump at the lowest point under the galley sink up against the engine compatment wall. Have not had the problem since.
... on my 78 27. The problem is that the pump is not low enough. I finally mounted the pump at the lowest point under the galley sink up against the engine compatment wall. Have not had the problem since.
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Neil Smith
plumbing diagram
The diagram does show a deck mounted fill and port water tank, but mine is across the entire v-berth area underneath. No evidence of a fresh water fill location except on the tank itself. It appears that the v-berth area was attached subsequent to tank installation. If it starts to leak, I'd have to cut out the berth deck, not something I'm anxious to do. Curious!
The diagram does show a deck mounted fill and port water tank, but mine is across the entire v-berth area underneath. No evidence of a fresh water fill location except on the tank itself. It appears that the v-berth area was attached subsequent to tank installation. If it starts to leak, I'd have to cut out the berth deck, not something I'm anxious to do. Curious!
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