Fresh water head

[manush]

Hi,

I am looking for a drawing on the hookup for a "sink drain to head". having trouble understanding how to connect the TEE and valve.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Stu Jackson]

Easy, but I can't draw on this 'board, so

Sink on top. Thru hull below. Hose between them.

Cut hose above thru hull, insert T. Connect T to hose to the head.

Put the valve anywhere after the T and the head.

To operate:

seawater: open thru hull and new valve, usually sink stopper plugs sink enough

freshwater: close thru hull, open new valve, run water in sink, pump head

NOW, some may put the valve between the sink and the T. Operation would be different

seawater: open thru hull, close new valve

freshwater: close thru hull, open new valve, run water in sink, pump head.

I also have the parts, haven't put 'em in yet, same valid question.

Any other ideas anyone? Peggie?

 

[Steve_Catalina]

Head to sink

Mike,

Lets see if I can muddy this further.

Existing sink drain goes to thru hull.

Put a "T" in this line 6" under the sink bowl and connect the head to the horizontal portion of the "T".

Sink
|____ Head
|
Thru hull

To use fresh water close the thu hull, draw fresh water into sink bowl and flush head.
To use sea water instead put stopper in sink, open thru hull and flush.

From Peggy's suggestion years ago, or not so long ago.

Steve

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You don't need a valve, just a tee

Surely you don't need a drawing to show you how to cut the sink drain line and put a tee fitting in it.

Steve got it right: put the tee in, connect the head intake to the "leg" of the tee. That's all there is to it!

For "normal" use, keep a plug in the sink except when you need to drain the sink...that's because, unless the sink is plugged, when you flush the toilet, it'll pull in air through the sink, preventing it from priming. To rinse the salt water out of the system, close the seacock, fill the sink with clean fresh water...flush the toilet. Because the thru-hull is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink.

Some people fill the sink to flush every time...NOT necessary! Sea water only stinks when it's allowed to sit and stagnate in the system. So there's no need to waste your fresh water on every flush...all you need to do to prevent it is rinse all the sea water out of the system before the boat will sit.

Btw Steve...you said, "From Peggy's suggestion years ago, or not so long ago."

Both and a lot of times in between.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Thanks, Peggie

I keep forgetting about the valve not being necessary. I also keep forgetting that I now have an extra valve on board.

 

[Cruisin30MKIII]

Re: Head to sink

Steve -

Just reading your response about the sink drain/head intake diversion. Am I getting this right?,

tee into the sink drain hose, ________/_______ at short end. The longer ends from Head intake to head. Do you not connect to the original sink drain portion of the thru-hull? Do I need to cap it?

Thanks

Just an Additional thought: how would the sink drain? I purchased a diverter valve, and was thinking that I would divert the sink drain from thru hull to head intake, and the switch it back to let the sink drain to the thru hull. Sound right?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Yes, the sink drain has to be connected to the thru-hull

Otherwise, you can't drain the sink except through the toilet...and gray water is NOT good for the toilet pump.

You're really trying VERY hard to over-complicate this! You're simply gonna remove the head intake line from the head intake thru-hull and reroute it to tee into the head sink drain....the head intake will will prob'ly be too long, so you'll prob'ly have to cut some of it off. You won't need the head intake thru-hull any more...the head sink drain thru-hull becomes both the sink drain and the head intake thru-hull. You can either use the head intake thru-hull for a washdown pump or anything else you want to...or you can just keep it closed or even remove it and glass the hole. Several boat builders plumb their heads this way to eliminate a hole in the boat.

So...all you need to do is cut the head sink drain line, put a tee in it. Connect the head intake line to the leg of the tee. You're done!

 

[Cruisin30MKIII]

Re: Yes, the sink drain has to be connected to the thru-hull

Peggy -

Yes - I am overthinking this. However, I don't think I mentioned that the boat is a sailboat with a shared thru-hull (intake/sink drain), so, again, I was wondering what to do about the drain portion of the thru hull.

thanks

Hal

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

If the head and sink already share the same thru-hull...

You're THERE! You don't need to anything except close the thru-hull, fill the sink with clean fresh water, and flush the toilet to rinse out the sea water before the boat will sit. Adding a cupful of distilled white vinegar to the fresh water will prevent sea water mineral buildup in the lines.

Do NOT keep the thru-hull closed all the time, intending to flush with fresh water and gray water from the sink all the time....for one thing, it's an unnecessary waste of fresh water...and for another soap scum, body oils, toothpaste etc are not good for the toilet pump (not to mention that combining gray and black water in the same holding tank violates USCG regs). Keep flushing with sea water...just rinsing out the system with clean water and distilled white vinegar before the boat will sit will completely cure your sea water odor problem.

I just realized that you're not the poster who started this conversation...I'm getting dizzy trying to sort out the players!

 

[SeaRanch]

On my Catalina 387 the shower is next to the toilet, so I close the sea water intake and fill and flush the bowl several times with fresh water via the shower flexable hose .

Peggy, is that just as good as filling the bowl with fresh water via the sea water intake?

Bill

 

[Cruisin30MKIII]

Re: If the head and sink already share the same thru-hull...

Peggy -
Thanks

Hal

 

[Cruisin30MKIII]

Sea Ranch

It's ok, but putting fresh water into the bowl to flush does not rinse out the intake line, which with out regualr rising can begin to smell over time.

Hal

 

[SeaRanch]

Good point, I will put the "sink drain T" on my to do list.
Bill

 

[jim 5569]

Why drain the sink into the holding tank? I don't like having an open through hull for the sink drain, as it can back sea water into the sink when heeling. I close my thru hull and drain the sink water into the bilge.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Sea ranch and Jim...

Sea Ranch said, "I close the sea water intake and fill and flush the bowl several times with fresh water via the shower flexable hose ."

A lot of people do that, but it's not a good idea because water just added to the bowl only goes through the bottom of the pump...causing the seals, o-rings etc in the top of the pump to pump dry all the time which wears 'em out a lot faster. And you should NEVER do that if you have an electric toilet that has an impeller intake...'cuz flushing the toilet without any water coming through the intake fries the intake impeller and eventually destroys the impeller housing.

Jim said, "Why drain the sink into the holding tank? I don't like having an open through hull for the sink drain, as it can back sea water into the sink when heeling. I close my thru hull and drain the sink water into the bilge."

No one suggested draining the sink into the holding tank...in fact, it's a violation of CG regs to put gray water (sink and shower water) and black water (toilet waste) into the same tank. However, there's no good reason to avoid putting a couple of quarts of fresh water down the sink to rinse all the sea water out the toilet and hoses.

But there's a VERY good reason NOT to drain sinks, showers and even ice boxes into the bilge: gray water and ice box melt water are full of bacteria, soap scum, hair, body oils etc that turn what should be a bilge kept as dry as possible into a real primordial soup that make a boat smell like a swamp or even a sewer. In fact, I get calls all the time from people who've torn out and replaced their entire sanitation system trying to get rid of what they thought was "head"' odor, when all they really needed to do was clean their bilges and sumps--really CLEAN 'em and flush ALL the dirty water out instead of just pouring more bleach (a BIG no-no!) and/or bilge cleaner into it and calling it done.

If you're not comfortable sailing with the sink drain thru-hull open, keep it closed except when the sink is in use.

And you might want to check out the link in my signature too.

 

[Cruisin30MKIII]

Peggy -

I guess what your are saying is that the head intake line can also act as the sink drain. So when the thru-hull is opened and you use the sink to "wash your hands", it will drain out through the thru-hull, even though the prior sink drain connection is disconnected and re-routed with a tee fitting to the intake attachement on the thru-hull

Hal

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

One more time, Hal...

Peggy -I guess what your are saying is that the head intake line can also act as the sink drain. l

If the sink drain and head intake share the same thru-hull, they're already doing that...you already have what Mike (the original poster) asked how to do. His head intake and sink drain use two separate thru-hulls...teeing the head intake line into the sink drain line accomplishes for him what you already have. So don't change a THING in your plumbing!

The ONLY thing that YOU need to do to rinse the sea water out of your toilet and sanitation system lines is close that ONE thru-hull, fill the sink with a couple of quarts of clean fresh water...and flush the toilet till all the water in the sink has been used.

 

[Cruisin30MKIII]

Peggy-

Got it! I thought thats what was happening, but wanted to make sure.

Again your patience and guidance are much appreciated!

Hal B

 

[SeaRanch]

OK, Peggy you got me!
My C387 has an electric head... so thanks!

Bill

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Whew!

By Jove, I think he's finally got it! :dance: