fractional rig versus masthead rig

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Sep 11, 2007
70
PSC FLICKA seattle wa
My friends, I posted a question regarding critics of fractional rigs. I did so in September. I also shared my research found on this matter. I went away and was unable to continue my dialog. I did go back and read ALL the posts.. Really seemed that people were attacking me and calling me as "drinking Hunters kool aid".. My next post was my research... IT WAS NOT MY VIEWS, rather what I had found when looking up different types of rigs. By the way, I have decided on a boat as my live abopard boat and think it will be a Gemini 105MC or possibly a Gulf pilot house 32. I live and sail in the Pacific North West, so stability as well as live aboard comfort is important to me. After this post I will re-post my reseach. Keep in mind it is not my experience. Those words were the author I copied as part of my research. One thing I would point out is many boats are also using The B&R rig with back stay.. Some notable boats would be the J boats and also many of the american cup boats... Thanks... and hope people who replied and some very mean spirited relaize that my research was not my oppinions but what I copied. To my knowledge what I copied is not affiliated with Hunter Boats...
 
Sep 11, 2007
70
PSC FLICKA seattle wa
My Research...

Fractional Rig Offers Advantages Over Masthead Rig In my sailing experience I have learned to prefer a fractional rig to a masthead version, whether cruising, racing or daysailing. Here are some of the reasons why I believe that more people should be sailing boats with fractional rigs: Fractional headsails are smaller and easier to use. A large 140-150% masthead genoa is a terrible sail for a cruiser. It is a pain to tack, requires a lot more winch grinding, reduces forward visibility, and takes either larger winches or more muscle to trim. As the wind picks up it soon overpowers the boat, requiring either a sail change or partial furling of the sail. A large genoa has an inefficient shape when partially furled (reefed). The larger the sail, the more it has to be reefed in a breeze, and the worse the shape becomes. To make matters worse, as you reef the genoa, you end up raising the center of effort of the sail, giving excess healing moment for the amount of sail actually exposed to the wind. Very inefficient! On the other hand, the fractional headsail is smaller to begin with and, as the breeze picks up, the mainsail can be reefed, an easier operation which results in a better sail shape. When it is necessary to reef the fractional genoa, it can be rolled up less which means shape is still decent. Fractional rigs require fewer sails: since the power of the frac rig is in the main, the headsails are smaller and you don't need as many for racing. If you end up with the wrong headsail up on a frac rig, it is not as detrimental as it is on a masthead rig. The total number of sails on a fractional-rigged boat is usually less than on a masthead. Fractional spinnakers are smaller and easier to handle: the biggest beast on most boats - the one that is hardest to handle - is the spinnaker. On a frac rig, the sail is smaller and the pole is shorter, and the spinnaker therefore is easier to set, douse and gybe. If it gets out of control, which eventually happens to all of us, it is less of a handful. A frac rig boat can sail on mainsail alone: there are times when one would prefer to sail with one sail up, for a variety of reasons. On a masthead rig boat, sailing under main alone is so inefficient as to be almost worthless, especially upwind. So what most masthead-ers do is sail with jib alone, especially when it is blowing. It drives me crazy to see this: without the wind pressure on the mainsail, the mast is not steadied and all the load on the spar is strictly in compression. If the mast gets out of column (bends too much) while you are plowing through waves you can end up with the rig in your lap. Not much fun! The frac rig, on the other hand, is easily sailed under main alone. In addition, the masthead rig becomes unbalanced when you sail with only one sail up, as you will develop too much weather or lee helm as the sail area is not centered over the keel. On the frac rig the mast is far enough forward so as to provide better balance of sail area over keel, for an easier helm. If you do use the jib alone on a frac rig it is small and easily handled and the pull on the mast is not strictly in compression, so it is safer. The frac rig spar is farther forward in the boat, meaning that its' position relative to the logical location of the forward main cabin bulkhead is better, with the result that it is less intrusive in the cabin. The frac rig spar is taller and reaches cleaner air higher off the water. It also gives a more nicely proportioned rig for aesthetic reasons. The frac rig mast is more easily bent, producing more sail shape control. The loads on the frac rig spar are generally less, as the compression load generated by the headsails is less. The backstay on a masthead race boat is often tensioned to the point that it puts terrific loads on the whole rig, causing flexing of the boat and associated problems. The frac rig backstay is never tightened to the same high loads, which is easier on the structure. I think frac rigs are more fun to sail. The mainsail is more fun to trim, you have more shape control, yet the headsails are a lot easier to use. If something goes wrong on a frac rig it is usually easier to control. If you are caught in a blow, or your furler jams, or your headsail starts to go over the side, the smaller headsail on a frac rig causes less of a fire drill than the larger masthead genoa will cause. The most hazardous place to be on a boat when trouble hits is up on the bow, especially when short or single-handed. So any reduction in the frequency or magnitude of a problem up forward is a good thing. On the other hand, the mainsail is more centered over the boat, and a problem with it is usually easier to get under control. So why are so many cruising boat built today with masthead rigs? For one reason they are simple and cheap. The mast is usually just a straight un-tapered extrusion. For another reason, builders seem to be reluctant to change, a problem in our industry that has stifled growth and innovation. The masthead rig is largely an anachronism left over from days when the racing rules gave favored treatment to boats with masthead rigs. This is no longer the case, but cruising boat design was adversely influenced for years by handicap rules, even though most boats never see the starting line. Fortunately, the situation is starting to change. I applaud Hunter for the use of the frac rig on their boats, and from much personal use i can say that their rigs are just plain easier and better for cruising. J/boats also uses mostly frac rigs, and they are known for making boats where sailing performance (speed, ease of use, efficiency and fun) is paramount. The Beneteau First series boats, also performance oriented, are frac rigs. If more people would try the frac rig they would find that it is indeed a step forward in convenience, performance and safety.
 
Sep 6, 2007
324
Catalina 320 Gulfport, Fl
Not sure about a fractional rig but....

I recently bought a Catalina 320 with a 150 genoa and I'm selling it and moving to a 125 genoa, I dont like the way the 150 has to be furled at about 15 kts, and the way it quickly over powers the boat. I don't race and have no use for such a big sail. I have a crising chute for light wind days and prefer a smaller full sail, or a slightly furled sail when required, I'm also having the sail made with a foam luff to maintain shape when furled. I have found over the years that it is fun to burry the rails, but it is much more efficient to go with less heel you get better speed, and lees strain on the rigging. I guess I'm just getting older
 
Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
I've got a H28.5 with

a masthead B&R rig. I won't comment on the B&R as that is not the topic here. Suffice it to say, I think the B&R has more disadvantages, particularly when sailing DDW, than a conventional rig. But I do like the masthead rig of the boat. I use both a 150 and 120 furling genoa here on the bay and find they are just about the right sails. Certainly I agree that the 150 must be reefed a lot earlier than a smaller genoa or a fractionally rigged boat when the wind rises. Maybe the real issue is knowing the wind/weather patterns where you predominantly sail. Here on the bay, I tend to bend on the 120 at the start and end of the season, when the winds tend to be higher. The Chesapeake is a notoriously light wind area, but we do know that it can blow like stink now and then. If that happens when I have the 150 in use, it is a simple matter to either roll up sail on the furler (and having a foam luff really helps)or sailing on just one sail alone. My boat will do that nicely with either the genoa or the main. I've also found that when the winds get over 20 kts, the shape of your headsail doesn't matter much unless you are a dedicated racer where every inch to windward matters. I have rolled up my 150 to around 70 per cent at times and the boat moves and tacks nicely. But in the end, I think the wind blows a lot more at below 15 kts than above it during the sailing season. Having a big, masthead genoa, is a real help most of the time, particularly during the summer months when the winds are really light. I've seen some fractionally rigged boats at those times, with tiny headsails, that just can hardly move when the wind drops into single digits. I see them from the stern of my boat....
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,172
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Not Necessarily an Either Or

I have had both types over the years. I started with fractional rigs. Lots of 50's boats had them. Then came the big masthead rigs with the big overlapping genoas. Then I went to a free-standing rig with a small headsail and then to a more contemporary fractional rig. In general, I find it easier to single hand with a fractional rig and for them to be a bit more forgiving which is handy when you are by yourself. Still, much of that preference in slight. But, for example, Catalina has a relatively big main and small-ish headsail that is masthead rigged. So, I just don't think it is a deal-breaker on a boat selection any more than many other design details that some people prefer one way or another. I guess I'm just not as passionate as others on the rig type. RD
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
I have both a Frac rig and a Masthead

I race my frac. rig and cruise with my mastheaded boat. Serenity4u2 makes some good claims with the Frac rig with which I can mostly agree - but not all. With respect to mastheaded boats, I must disagree with the 'genoa only' - 1. mast compression will NOT somehow increase when the mainsail is removed. True, the action of the mainsail will help dampen mast oscilations; but, the compressinal loads will remain the same at the same angle of heel -- simple static stress analysis. Yes, the mass of the mainsail and its 'distributive loading' to the mast may help with mast oscilations/mast pumping ...;. but a serious mastheaded boat will usually have running backstays or will have the mast set with proper 'mast pre-bend' to lessen such 'pumping'. Most certainly the compression load in the mast will NOT increase when the mainsail is not flown - thats just simple physics. 1a. with the mainsail down, the vang pressure can be totally released and the horizontal component of compression into the mast at the gooseneck will be zero .... and those horizontal components from the boom that would otherwise be additive to induce buckling failure of the mast .... are removed. 2. With respect to 'helm balance' problems with a masthead and genoa only sailing .... usually not a problem --=- If the headsail is re-shaped so that its "dynamic' center of effort matches closely with the CLR (CE in-line with the CLR when at ~normal tacking angle).... the emphasis is *dynamic* (not static CE). The ONLY practical disadvantage is that the angle of attack on a genoa only sailed boat is limited to the tack-to-clew (fairlead) angle of a typical additional 10-12 degrees - therefore a genoa only mastheaded boat will 'point' approx. 10-12 degrees less ... with 'just' a genoa flying. Most well designed mastheaded boats with Genoa only flying will point to weather nicely and without much additional helm pressure, especially if the boat is heeling less with just the genoa only. The main disadvantage of a fractional is downwind sailing. 1. With Main only, the yaw moment (tendency of the boat to round up to weather) will develop hard adverse helm pressure, especially with the main only and the boom end far from the centerline ( a force couple - moment) .... unless the mainsail is radically reshaped to move the CE closer to the mast to change the 'dynamic' CE of the sail. For downwind and In comparison for either genoa only or main only, the mastheaded boat will be more 'functionally stable' (- versus yaw) downwind as the component CE of the sail is in FRONT of the CLR (more functionally stable), whereas the Component CE of the mainsail is BEHIND the CLR (less functionally stable). Nutherwords, you cant come DDW with the main only on a frac. boat without adverse helm pressure, and the deepest downwind course without adverse helm pressure will be when the dynamic CE is in line with the CLR .... and thats about 135deg .... OR unless the boat is radically heeled TO the weather side (if you have heavy-weight deck bimbos and rail beef for your crew, etc.). 2. To overcome the disadvantage of a too small spinnaker on my frac boat (when not racing to the 'rules') I fly a spinnaker from the 'masthead'.... on a 3/4 Fract boat, that translates to 33% MORE spinnaker sail area! 3. The frac rig usually is taller than a mastheaded boat .... important consideration if you have to clear under a lot of bridges. Other - with the growing acceptance of the concept that large overlapping jib/genoas are aerodynamically inefficient in comparison to shorter LP 'blade' jibs, etc. .... youll see more and more fractional rigs. After all, the mastheaded design was mostly a racing 'rule beater' ..... but it does excel for deeper off the wind sailing in comparison to a fractional. To me the B&R rigs are simply static .... mast not easily bendable to match the sailing conditions by mainsail shaping. If I understand the B&R correctly .... how does one easily add tension to the forestay to prevent adverse sag to leeward (causing the jib/genoa to dramatically 'power-up' / going 'draft-aft' / deeper draft, and a hooked to weather leech ... as the luff shape of the sail no longer matches the sag of the forestay) to maintain decent foresail shape -- without a backstay? Its easy to correct/readjust the forestay sag (looseness) on a boat with a backstay --- "pass those wrenches please" - as worst case. If Im going to beat/point all day, I prefer a fract.; however, If im going downwind most of the time gimme my masthead. :)
 
Jun 16, 2005
476
- - long beach, CA
You're right about the advantages

of a fractional rig. My current boat, a Bene OC400, has a masthead rig with a 150 genny and that thing is a pain to tack. My previous boat was a Catalina 30, which also had a masthead 155, and before that I had a Catalina 22 that was masthead. The rage for masthead rigs was for those who like to race as well as cruise, but IMHO, the fractional rig, with the smaller headsail and larger, roached main, is the way to go for cruising and general sailing for fun/pleasure. My next boat will be either a fractional rig or a cutter, I'm not sure.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Cutters ..... are VERY different

Larry - My mastheaded boat is a 'true' cutter. They are ***ROYAL PITA*** to tack. Plus the rigging tensions are a complicated PITA to keep correct. The only real advantage is that the static combined CE on a true cutter is well in front of the mast -- which makes a cutter good for downwind sailing. I think the frac. with (BIG) blade jib (and large added 'solent stay') is the ideal. Only if you plan on long down-wind / tradewind sailing would I recommend a cutter (mast at 45-50% LOA). For ease of tacking a large genoa .... take a look at a video of the 1987 Americas Cup boats in action. They used 'tricing lines' - a line that is temporarily attached to the middle of the genoa foot ... then to a block at the bow .... then led back to the cockpit. When tacking, pull the tricing line which pulls the sail forward (in a 'bunch') so it doesnt foul or drag across the 'side stays'. I use this method to tack a large genoa through between the headstay and forestay on a cutter .... makes it easier but is still a PITA.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,278
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Give me a Fractional

Interesting discussion. I've had both and I'd have to favor the frac. I'd probably disagree with RichH with regard to downwind sailing being worse for the frac. His point may be correct if he's only considering spinaker sailing. But with jib and main I would prefer the large main providing most of the power. Masthead mains, of the sevenities and eighties, tend to be small and downwind in a jib/main configuartion, they seem to just be enough sail to kill the jib. You then must fly wing on wing, which is fine except if the wind shifts, as it tends to, you have to change course. You have to keep that jib filled or you go nowhere. Fract. boats sail fairly well with just the main downwind and you can roll up the jib and enjoy a easy sail. Hunters, which is what I have now, are not really meant to sail dead downwind. Just grist for the mill. Happy sailing.
 
Jun 13, 2005
559
Irwin Barefoot 37 CC Sloop Port Orchard WA
I just have to jump in on this subject

I also have both types of rig, a masthead rig on my cruising boat and a fractional rig on my racer(/cruiser). Lots has been said about both and a lot of it I agree with, but not all, and everyone will have their preferences so I'm only going to take exception to a couple of things. RichH said"...mastheaded design was mostly a racing 'rule beater' ..... but it does excel for deeper off the wind sailing in comparison to a fractional." and I believe he is referring to boat speed with a spinnaker in light to moderate winds. When the wind is really howling, the masthead rig has a tendency to bury the bow and can become quite squirrelly; (even the older CCA designs), where the fractional rig with the mast kicked forward can set a chute and have the bow lift. A whole fleet of t-birds set spinnakers in a world championships in Australia in 45 Kts of wind. Wow! what a ride, but no one would have dared to do it with a masthead rig. My masthead rig has been acceptable to me for cruising, but with my 50+ years of experience sailing both, I would design my ideal rig to be fractional. Joe
 
Jun 4, 2004
844
Hunter 28.5 Tolchester, MD
Too Many Options

There's mast head single & double spreader rigs with straight spreaders (older C&C's and Sabers); there's mast head B&R rigs with swept back spreaders and backstays (mid 80's Hunters); there's performance fractional rigs with backstays(J 29's & J105's) and there's fractional swept spreader newer Hunters with no backstays. So... many of the generalizations and comparisons need to be qualified by which mast head and which fractional rig you're comparing, particularly when making performance comparisons.
 
Sep 19, 2006
643
SCHOCK santana27' lake pleasant,az
i've a mast head rig santana and i love it

and I've yet to try my spinnaker but i really haven't needed it . i like to sail in heavy wind and use the big genny, my boat is of good size and we're not afraid but i notice most of the other boats on the pond scale down when the wind really picks up. I've also yet to be on the pond in 45kt+ winds but that will soon change. we,re learning as we go how to get the best performance out of her but a frac rig just doesnt seem my style, i'm not looking for easy to sail i'm looking for fast and fun.. i figure you get out what you put in to it so work it for all your worth and have a good time...
 
Sep 11, 2007
70
PSC FLICKA seattle wa
how about the Gemini 32mc

just curioius wht people think about the the gemini 32mc it is my L/A and dream... so tell me before i go all out
 
Sep 11, 2007
70
PSC FLICKA seattle wa
Thanks All.. Lots of views...

I thank All... many views.. seems there are pro's and con's... guess it comes down to the sailor and his/her boat usage... My 65 year old dad can single hand his hunter 33 sailing with my mom (not a sailor).. along for the ride... He is a US Navy Captain.. A physicis guy and swears by the hunter rig.. Guess it meets his costal needs... Some off sure in the san juans... People in here seemed really fair and honest... Thanks ALL..... What about The Gemini 32mc... A Cat and seems to have a different rig??? Just curous since I plan and really am set on buuying one as a Live Aboard... Thanks All....
 
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