My engine (Yanmar 2GM20F, 1985 Hunter 31) quit suddenly yesterday, just died from 2000 rpm to zero in a few seconds. I immediately suspected a fuel problem but had changed the primary filter last August (it was a mess) and secondary filter (absolutely clean) three weeks ago. When I removed the primary filter yesterday, it was loaded with water. Replaced it and bled the line, and the engine is fine again, although it passed a lot of white smoke (water vapor) for about 10 seconds after it started. I top off the fuel tank before winter storage, to reduce water condensation inside the tank, but I only burn about 10-15 gallons of fuel all season so I never really empty the fuel tank of old fuel. Questions for diesel owners: what fuel additives do you use or recommend - biocide, conditioner, stabilizer, other? How often do you check or change your filters? Do you drain out the water from the bottom of the primary filter on any regular basis? When this is done, is it necessary to bleed the fuel line? Has anyone had their fuel tank pumped out, and what is the cost for such a job? Can I bring my fuel supply "back to life" by treating it? Any other recommendations?
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Bob O'Brien
Water in Diesel - O Ring
I had a similar problem at the of the season last year. I was missing the O-Ring on my fuel tank cap - I don't know if it fell off during a refueling or if it was never there, but as a result water was finding its way from the deck into the fuel tank. Ultimately, I had to drain half the tank to through the primary filter to get all of the water and algae out. I am now using a Biocide (Bio-pure is the name I believe) to prevent any algae growth and have historically used a stabilizer (Starbrite).
I had a similar problem at the of the season last year. I was missing the O-Ring on my fuel tank cap - I don't know if it fell off during a refueling or if it was never there, but as a result water was finding its way from the deck into the fuel tank. Ultimately, I had to drain half the tank to through the primary filter to get all of the water and algae out. I am now using a Biocide (Bio-pure is the name I believe) to prevent any algae growth and have historically used a stabilizer (Starbrite).
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Lee Hadjiosif
Fuel Contamination
Your problem is not that uncommon. Obviouly you have water in the bottom of your tank that needs to come out. Most tanks have a small amout of water at the bottom from condensation, but because the fuel pick up is a couple of inches above the bottom of the tank the water is not a problem. Over the long term, the water will grow algae in it and then it will become a problem. Anyway there is nothing you can add to the fuel to eliminate the water and you don't need to pump out the entire tank either. Take a piece of 1/8" or 1/4" copper tubing about one foot longer than the depth of your tank(so it doesn't fall in) and attach it to a suction pump(the same as you use to evacuate the engine oil) and pump out about one gallon of diesel(from the very bottom of the tank). This should remove all the water and nothing else is needed other than watching the fuel/water separator and repeating this procedure in the future if needed. The best way to gain access to the tank is through the fuel level sender. Remove it an note the way it is pointing so you can install it in the same direction.
Your problem is not that uncommon. Obviouly you have water in the bottom of your tank that needs to come out. Most tanks have a small amout of water at the bottom from condensation, but because the fuel pick up is a couple of inches above the bottom of the tank the water is not a problem. Over the long term, the water will grow algae in it and then it will become a problem. Anyway there is nothing you can add to the fuel to eliminate the water and you don't need to pump out the entire tank either. Take a piece of 1/8" or 1/4" copper tubing about one foot longer than the depth of your tank(so it doesn't fall in) and attach it to a suction pump(the same as you use to evacuate the engine oil) and pump out about one gallon of diesel(from the very bottom of the tank). This should remove all the water and nothing else is needed other than watching the fuel/water separator and repeating this procedure in the future if needed. The best way to gain access to the tank is through the fuel level sender. Remove it an note the way it is pointing so you can install it in the same direction.
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Jim
WHY GO IN THROUGH THE FUEL SENDER?
Just curious. Why would you go through the fuel sender and not just put the tube down through the fill neck into the bottom of the tank?
Just curious. Why would you go through the fuel sender and not just put the tube down through the fill neck into the bottom of the tank?
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Mike
Racor
I am assuming that your secondary filter is a Racor or some similar type of fuel/water separator. If not, you should install one. My motor mechanic told me to check/drain the Racor before each outing. He also said that the primary fuel filter should be changed every season and that spares for both fuel filters should be kept handy. If this is the first time you have experienced a water problem in your tank you should monitor that situation very closely. Your tank, if it's a built-in unit like on my 28.5, may have developed a crack. Left unattended for long enough, water will displace the diesel, forcing it out of the tank and into your bilge. This is what happened on my boat. And because of the staggering expense of cutting the tank out to replace, I now use a plastic aux. tank. Also, I think there is a generally recommended interval where you should have the tank cleaned. I don't know what it is. I am sure the pros at your marina will know who in your area cleans fuel tanks. I believe it's called "tank polishing". There was an article in one of the sailing mags this month in which a sailor talked about how he got himself into trouble because he hit rough weather that stirred up all the goo in the bottom of his tank, hopelessly fouling the filters and the fuel lines. Food for thought. Good Luck Mike
I am assuming that your secondary filter is a Racor or some similar type of fuel/water separator. If not, you should install one. My motor mechanic told me to check/drain the Racor before each outing. He also said that the primary fuel filter should be changed every season and that spares for both fuel filters should be kept handy. If this is the first time you have experienced a water problem in your tank you should monitor that situation very closely. Your tank, if it's a built-in unit like on my 28.5, may have developed a crack. Left unattended for long enough, water will displace the diesel, forcing it out of the tank and into your bilge. This is what happened on my boat. And because of the staggering expense of cutting the tank out to replace, I now use a plastic aux. tank. Also, I think there is a generally recommended interval where you should have the tank cleaned. I don't know what it is. I am sure the pros at your marina will know who in your area cleans fuel tanks. I believe it's called "tank polishing". There was an article in one of the sailing mags this month in which a sailor talked about how he got himself into trouble because he hit rough weather that stirred up all the goo in the bottom of his tank, hopelessly fouling the filters and the fuel lines. Food for thought. Good Luck Mike
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Jim McCue
What's your tank construction??
My 28.5 is an 85 or 86 (I forget which) but back about that time Hunter tried to save a few bucks by "tv dinner pie plating" of the fiberglass with the bubble box and fuel tank side by side. Then they glassed over the top of the two comparments. Mine was leaking on delivery but it took almost 2 seasons before the problem was isolated - the seam covering/sealing the two compartments was not solid and I was boxing my exhaust in the bubble box into the fuel. Hunter eventually replaced the the approach with a fitted poly fuel tank and bubble box that dropped into the old receptacles. Fine since. Maybe you have the "pie plate" setup with a seam that just recently developed a vibration crack or something. Check it out. Jim
My 28.5 is an 85 or 86 (I forget which) but back about that time Hunter tried to save a few bucks by "tv dinner pie plating" of the fiberglass with the bubble box and fuel tank side by side. Then they glassed over the top of the two comparments. Mine was leaking on delivery but it took almost 2 seasons before the problem was isolated - the seam covering/sealing the two compartments was not solid and I was boxing my exhaust in the bubble box into the fuel. Hunter eventually replaced the the approach with a fitted poly fuel tank and bubble box that dropped into the old receptacles. Fine since. Maybe you have the "pie plate" setup with a seam that just recently developed a vibration crack or something. Check it out. Jim
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Lee Hadjiosif
Respose to Jim
Jim, You can't put the rigid tube down the fill neck because that does not go straight down (at least on my boat) but curves around via a hose before it enters the tank. And you cannot remove the hose and enter through the tank fitting because it has a 90 degree turn on in. Using a flex hose will defeat the purpose because it will curve up and miss the bottom of the tank where the water is.
Jim, You can't put the rigid tube down the fill neck because that does not go straight down (at least on my boat) but curves around via a hose before it enters the tank. And you cannot remove the hose and enter through the tank fitting because it has a 90 degree turn on in. Using a flex hose will defeat the purpose because it will curve up and miss the bottom of the tank where the water is.
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Mike
question for Jim
Hey Jim, When did Hunter supply you with the fitted poly replacement? Do you think Hunter still supplies them? Maybe I can save myself about $2K if I can get my hands on that fitted poly tank and DIY....? Sure would be nice to get rid of my aux tank fix.......
Hey Jim, When did Hunter supply you with the fitted poly replacement? Do you think Hunter still supplies them? Maybe I can save myself about $2K if I can get my hands on that fitted poly tank and DIY....? Sure would be nice to get rid of my aux tank fix.......
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Jim McCue
Response from Jim
Hunter (via local dealer) upgraded/replaced the bubblebox and poly tank back in '87 (+/- 1). The dealer simply cut the top-plate overlay off the 2 side by side compartments. Dropped into the recess the custom fitted bubble box and poly tank and used one sheet of shaped plywood which was screwed down over the area. of course there is the in-out pipe for the bubble box protruding some but its been fine since. I don't know if these are available from Hunter anymore. Hope that helps. Mike, my boat is in your neighborhood. if you want a look see contact me: jamestmccue@worldnet.att.net
Hunter (via local dealer) upgraded/replaced the bubblebox and poly tank back in '87 (+/- 1). The dealer simply cut the top-plate overlay off the 2 side by side compartments. Dropped into the recess the custom fitted bubble box and poly tank and used one sheet of shaped plywood which was screwed down over the area. of course there is the in-out pipe for the bubble box protruding some but its been fine since. I don't know if these are available from Hunter anymore. Hope that helps. Mike, my boat is in your neighborhood. if you want a look see contact me: jamestmccue@worldnet.att.net
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Mike
Thanks Jim
I am going to contact Hunter and see what they say. I appreciate the invite very much, but I am going to find out if I can even get the replacement tank you mention first. The tank project, if it ever comes to that, will not be this season. I am still not in the water and becomming more and more impatient for a launch. Thanks a ton! Mike
I am going to contact Hunter and see what they say. I appreciate the invite very much, but I am going to find out if I can even get the replacement tank you mention first. The tank project, if it ever comes to that, will not be this season. I am still not in the water and becomming more and more impatient for a launch. Thanks a ton! Mike
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Jim McCue
Tanking it
What I did while the dealer and hunter pointed fingers at eachother was to buy a 5 gallon gas tank (oval shaped) and strapped that down in the aft locker and put my fuel hose into it til the solution hit. I've heard more recently that it is not good to put diesel in a metal gas can. I don't know why - some chemical action issues??? Check that out first. Jim
What I did while the dealer and hunter pointed fingers at eachother was to buy a 5 gallon gas tank (oval shaped) and strapped that down in the aft locker and put my fuel hose into it til the solution hit. I've heard more recently that it is not good to put diesel in a metal gas can. I don't know why - some chemical action issues??? Check that out first. Jim
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Bob La Salle
Thanks for the replies
You have given me lots to think about. As a result, I will treat my fuel system with more respect, starting with regular additives, frequent filter changes, regular checking/draining of water from the separator, installing a bulb primer, maybe installing a Racor filter/separator, checking/replacing the o-ring/washer on the fuel filler cap (never thought about this before).
You have given me lots to think about. As a result, I will treat my fuel system with more respect, starting with regular additives, frequent filter changes, regular checking/draining of water from the separator, installing a bulb primer, maybe installing a Racor filter/separator, checking/replacing the o-ring/washer on the fuel filler cap (never thought about this before).
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Jim McCue
Try Racor with the see thru plastic/acrylic bowl.
You can see if you begin accummulating water before you stall.
You can see if you begin accummulating water before you stall.
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