An important part of sailing is having the right gear. What about rain gear? Anyone have suggestions on quality of rain gear? Brand name that really stands out? Should a person buy inexpensive because it may get torn and then you would need another. OR buy the best? Let me know your thoughts. We plan on cruising in the future and would like to but items a little at a time instead of all at once. Thankx for your input.
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Buy it, but don't be afraid to use it!
Good rain gear has reinforced knees, elbows, etc., and will last a long time. But given the amount of time thay you will use it, has taught be to buy "good, but not overdone" quality. If I were a longtime cruiser, then maybe I'd invest more. I've gone up the middle of the road and bought what is adequate for me. I'll admit, that I tried the cheap stuff, but it didn't hold up as well as I wanted it to. But this taught me what I needed, also. Buy it at the boat shows where deals are always plentiful.
Good rain gear has reinforced knees, elbows, etc., and will last a long time. But given the amount of time thay you will use it, has taught be to buy "good, but not overdone" quality. If I were a longtime cruiser, then maybe I'd invest more. I've gone up the middle of the road and bought what is adequate for me. I'll admit, that I tried the cheap stuff, but it didn't hold up as well as I wanted it to. But this taught me what I needed, also. Buy it at the boat shows where deals are always plentiful.
Put some money into it
I have a wonderful sister in law who bought me a nice, but inexpensive, all weather suit - pants, jacket, all red, sure looked the part. On a long return trip last year (over eight hours), I stood in the cold rain and got progressively wetter, until it didn't matter anymore. Unfortunately, it was Maine, so it became quite a struggle to bring the boat home. I'd find some quality clothes (LL Bean's in in Maine; welcome to check there); not necessarily expensive, but not the cheapest. Imagine being out in it four or more hours and decide whether you want to stay kind of dry, or nice and dry. Columbia and Northface brands have been good to me. The only department we couldn't solve was shoes. I haven't come up with anything waterproof that wouldn't also leave black scuff marks; but if someone has an answer for northern sailors, I'd love to hear. Paul
I have a wonderful sister in law who bought me a nice, but inexpensive, all weather suit - pants, jacket, all red, sure looked the part. On a long return trip last year (over eight hours), I stood in the cold rain and got progressively wetter, until it didn't matter anymore. Unfortunately, it was Maine, so it became quite a struggle to bring the boat home. I'd find some quality clothes (LL Bean's in in Maine; welcome to check there); not necessarily expensive, but not the cheapest. Imagine being out in it four or more hours and decide whether you want to stay kind of dry, or nice and dry. Columbia and Northface brands have been good to me. The only department we couldn't solve was shoes. I haven't come up with anything waterproof that wouldn't also leave black scuff marks; but if someone has an answer for northern sailors, I'd love to hear. Paul
It is the fabric that makes the difference.
Brenda: There are good products that do not cost a fortune. I had/have a West Marine set of foul weather gear that is fine under the right condition, but if the weather is warm & wet you may not have spray & rain getting on you, but you may sweat to death. It is important to get what you need without going overboard. Talk to other sailors and find out what they are using in your area. It makes a difference if you are doing some light coastal sailing vs. real offshore for weeks at a time.
Brenda: There are good products that do not cost a fortune. I had/have a West Marine set of foul weather gear that is fine under the right condition, but if the weather is warm & wet you may not have spray & rain getting on you, but you may sweat to death. It is important to get what you need without going overboard. Talk to other sailors and find out what they are using in your area. It makes a difference if you are doing some light coastal sailing vs. real offshore for weeks at a time.
Advertising
Those guys at the weather channel wear what their advertising customers sell not necesarily the best. LLBean products are good for but not particularly the best for sailing. Goretex is the brand name of a fabric not that of a garment manufacturer. I have used different brands and grades of foul weather gear through the years and my advise is to spend the money and get a good set. It will make the difference between being comfortable or miserable in those cold rainy conditions. It is money well spent as the alternative could be paying a doctor and hospital to treat a bout of pneumonia. Currently have a set of Henri Lloyd-Goretex and would swear by them as they offer maximum protection coupled with good breathability and lightweigt. West Marine sells a rather inexpensive set of nylon fabric that works very well and has decent durability.
Those guys at the weather channel wear what their advertising customers sell not necesarily the best. LLBean products are good for but not particularly the best for sailing. Goretex is the brand name of a fabric not that of a garment manufacturer. I have used different brands and grades of foul weather gear through the years and my advise is to spend the money and get a good set. It will make the difference between being comfortable or miserable in those cold rainy conditions. It is money well spent as the alternative could be paying a doctor and hospital to treat a bout of pneumonia. Currently have a set of Henri Lloyd-Goretex and would swear by them as they offer maximum protection coupled with good breathability and lightweigt. West Marine sells a rather inexpensive set of nylon fabric that works very well and has decent durability.
Watch the sales and buy good equipment
I bought a good quality Henri Lloyd foul weather set from Crowley's in Chicago while at Strictly Sail. I bought the coat for about $65 one year and the bibs for about $50 bucks the following year. It was the last day and Crowley maked them down an extra 10-20%. Advertized retail for the set would have been about $275. They have a breathable fiber -- their version of Gortex. They are great in spring and fall, but too hot in summer. I have a good light gortex rain/wind jacket made by Columbia that I purchased for about $40 on sale a Bass Pro. They have good quality and good sales. I layer it with t-shirts to sweaters as needed. I also have a set of camo gortex pants and coat with thinselite insulation from Cabella's. I don't recall what I paid 15 years ago (probably about $50 for the set...on sale of course!), but if I watch the sales, I think I can still buy a set for less than $100. They are my foul weather turkey/duck hunting clothes. If it's really wet and you aren't moving much, they are great. I've never been cold when I've warn these over a good set of long johns and a wool sweater. They double as my ski outfit...although my daughter almost refusses to ski with me. Camo on the ski slopes is just not very cool! Yes, I wear them sailing too. All three options are good quality and are not easily torn. I always buy a size big so I can layer with sweaters and heavy wool shirts. I've looked at LL Bean, Landsend and other similar brands. I find they are good quality, but way overpriced compared to BassPro or Cabelas. I've looked at the heavy duty sailing foul weather outfits from Gill and others. When I retire and go cruising, I may invest the $500 for the best, but until then these provide flexibility and many options. Good luck in your search. Mark
I bought a good quality Henri Lloyd foul weather set from Crowley's in Chicago while at Strictly Sail. I bought the coat for about $65 one year and the bibs for about $50 bucks the following year. It was the last day and Crowley maked them down an extra 10-20%. Advertized retail for the set would have been about $275. They have a breathable fiber -- their version of Gortex. They are great in spring and fall, but too hot in summer. I have a good light gortex rain/wind jacket made by Columbia that I purchased for about $40 on sale a Bass Pro. They have good quality and good sales. I layer it with t-shirts to sweaters as needed. I also have a set of camo gortex pants and coat with thinselite insulation from Cabella's. I don't recall what I paid 15 years ago (probably about $50 for the set...on sale of course!), but if I watch the sales, I think I can still buy a set for less than $100. They are my foul weather turkey/duck hunting clothes. If it's really wet and you aren't moving much, they are great. I've never been cold when I've warn these over a good set of long johns and a wool sweater. They double as my ski outfit...although my daughter almost refusses to ski with me. Camo on the ski slopes is just not very cool! Yes, I wear them sailing too. All three options are good quality and are not easily torn. I always buy a size big so I can layer with sweaters and heavy wool shirts. I've looked at LL Bean, Landsend and other similar brands. I find they are good quality, but way overpriced compared to BassPro or Cabelas. I've looked at the heavy duty sailing foul weather outfits from Gill and others. When I retire and go cruising, I may invest the $500 for the best, but until then these provide flexibility and many options. Good luck in your search. Mark
What foul weather in So. California?
I just got a Mustang floater jacket on Ebay that I really like. I used it last week for the first time when the fog rolled in and it got cold. The jacket is warm and not overly bulky. I hate wearing a PFD over a jacket. I got one for my wife too. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220083608666&rd=1,1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=320079084096&rd=1,1
I just got a Mustang floater jacket on Ebay that I really like. I used it last week for the first time when the fog rolled in and it got cold. The jacket is warm and not overly bulky. I hate wearing a PFD over a jacket. I got one for my wife too. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220083608666&rd=1,1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=011&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=320079084096&rd=1,1
Don't buy into the "Foul Weather Gear" hype..
Don't buy the hype I'm a sailor, winter alpine climber, tele skier, ice climber etc.. After spending nearly $600.00 on a Henri LLoyd jacket for an offshore trip I was sure glad I had my mountain climbing shell with me! I had a Patagonia three layer Gore-tex mountaineering jacket with me that I paid $229.00 for that blew away my $600.00 Henri Lloyd. Climbing jackets are designed to move freely. Your arms can move freely and the hood is articulated as well as the arms. They also have better venting and are lighter in weight. Wearing my Henri Lloyd was like wearing a fire mans suit. Totally uncomfortable! It also did not breath worth a darn, and the fleece lined collar just collected salt spray and irritated my neck. The collar was so stiff it chaffed my ears till they bled. This was the point where I dug our my Patagonia. Granted it was a windy and wet trip but this is what the Lloyd stuff is supposed to be designed for and the hood was designed like it was an afterthought. "Oh crap we forgot to put a hood on this jacket quick send a drawing to the guys in China before they go into production...????!!!" The problem with my Henri LLoyd gear was freedom of movement, the non articulated hood, and the fact that it fit like a trash can and breathed like a trash bag. A hood that can be stored in a collar like on most LLoyd and Musto etc. gear, by nature of the design, with heavy fabric, is not articulated. What is the point of a fleece lined collar when you can't build a hood that keeps water off the fleece? What does fleece do? Fleece dries quickly and leaves the salt behind to irritate your neck! What does salt do to your skin? It sucks the moisture out then your skin chaps and becomes raw. If LLoyd actually built a collar correctly, that had enough room for your chin to tuck into without strangling you, they would not need a fleece lining. If they built a hood that fit correctly and only your eyes and nose poked out when cinched down for extreme weather you could wear goggles over the hood and be totally dry like I have been in 85-100 mph winds in a freezing rain, ice & snow storms on NH's Mount Washington. When you turn your head from side to side to check wind conditions or whatever else in a LLoyd the hood mostly stays put and does not turn with your head so you look at the inside of the hood with at least one eye! The LLoyd hood did not even work well with ski goggles! Yes, I said ski goggles.. If you've not been in rough enough weather to need them than forget I mentioned them but they do work incredibly well in nasty conditions and keep the salt spray out of your eyes. I always have a few pair on board, when going off shore, because you never know when they might come in handy. Poor design, fit and function would NEVER be accepted in the alpine world nor would non articulated sleeves, lack of pit zip venting and over blown ballistic cloth material that prevents freedom of movement and breathe ability. The weight of the "offshore" ballistic type cloth is 98% unnecessary IMHO. I have yet to rip/abrade any jacket in 35 years of sailing and I've been in numerous offshore races and in some very, very nasty weather. I would have to say that back coutry tele-skiing through the trees of the White and Green mountains challenges my gear substantially more than sailing and none of my alpine jackets are made of anywhere near the weight cloth as my LLoyd or Musto. The difference is the alpine gear manufacturers actually field test, and research, what the high wear points are and reinforce those points only to keep weight down and keep freedom of movement up. Yes I won't deny I have ripped a few alpine jackets but hitting a low hanging, dead branch of a spruce tree while back county tree skiing. At 18-20 mph this would rip any of my jackets including my LLoyd or Musto. The only thing most alpine climbing jackets lack is a wrist drip cuff and reflective tape. I wear a Mustang inflatable life jacket at night, and in rough weather, and it has reflective tape so no need for it on my jacket too but it could be added very easily.. I also have a strobe on it so I don't really need it on my jacket too. I'll trade those two features any day of the week for far better freedom of movement, substantially higher breathe ability, articulated hood with multiple fit draw cords, articulated arms and superior ventillaltion while remaining totally waterproof at less cost! Here's an idea before you buy a jacket jump in a pool with it on and see how tired you get treading water with the restricted movement of these jackets. Musto, LLoyd and the others need to learn a few things about designing gear and product testing before I'll lay down 600 clams for that over priced under designed "glamoure gear" again... Check out the Patagonia web site and look at the Skanorak and Chute To Thrill jackets. I own them both, because the outlet is 10 minutes away, and they are very comfortable and far more breathable than ANY "sailing" gear I've ever owned. I wear an older version of the Chute to Thrill more often than not but also love my Skanorak. After my Henri Lloyd debacle I decided to try a Musto and it too was a totally uncomfortable poor breathing non articulated fire mans suit. Since my two experiences I truly feel bad for people wearing "marine foulies". The design of the high altitude gear sold at Patagonia, The North Face, EMS, REI, Backcountry.com etc. etc. is meant to withstand winds of 80+mph snow, ice and freezing rain while remaining easy to move in and waterproof + breathable. Buy yourself a nice 3 layer Gore-tex shell from North Face, Patagonia, EMS, Mountain Hardwear, L.L. Bean, Arc'teryx, Cloudveil Marmot or one of the other quality names and you'll be fine, most likely pay less, and be far more comfortable. A sailboat can't dish out nearly the punishment that I give my jackets when climbing or back country skiing through the pointed Spruce trees.. My wife wears an Arc'teryx shell and absolutely loves it! Plus it's cut for a woman. Backcountry.com is a great place to buy from if you have not! Remember to size a shell so you can layer under it if necessary.
Don't buy the hype I'm a sailor, winter alpine climber, tele skier, ice climber etc.. After spending nearly $600.00 on a Henri LLoyd jacket for an offshore trip I was sure glad I had my mountain climbing shell with me! I had a Patagonia three layer Gore-tex mountaineering jacket with me that I paid $229.00 for that blew away my $600.00 Henri Lloyd. Climbing jackets are designed to move freely. Your arms can move freely and the hood is articulated as well as the arms. They also have better venting and are lighter in weight. Wearing my Henri Lloyd was like wearing a fire mans suit. Totally uncomfortable! It also did not breath worth a darn, and the fleece lined collar just collected salt spray and irritated my neck. The collar was so stiff it chaffed my ears till they bled. This was the point where I dug our my Patagonia. Granted it was a windy and wet trip but this is what the Lloyd stuff is supposed to be designed for and the hood was designed like it was an afterthought. "Oh crap we forgot to put a hood on this jacket quick send a drawing to the guys in China before they go into production...????!!!" The problem with my Henri LLoyd gear was freedom of movement, the non articulated hood, and the fact that it fit like a trash can and breathed like a trash bag. A hood that can be stored in a collar like on most LLoyd and Musto etc. gear, by nature of the design, with heavy fabric, is not articulated. What is the point of a fleece lined collar when you can't build a hood that keeps water off the fleece? What does fleece do? Fleece dries quickly and leaves the salt behind to irritate your neck! What does salt do to your skin? It sucks the moisture out then your skin chaps and becomes raw. If LLoyd actually built a collar correctly, that had enough room for your chin to tuck into without strangling you, they would not need a fleece lining. If they built a hood that fit correctly and only your eyes and nose poked out when cinched down for extreme weather you could wear goggles over the hood and be totally dry like I have been in 85-100 mph winds in a freezing rain, ice & snow storms on NH's Mount Washington. When you turn your head from side to side to check wind conditions or whatever else in a LLoyd the hood mostly stays put and does not turn with your head so you look at the inside of the hood with at least one eye! The LLoyd hood did not even work well with ski goggles! Yes, I said ski goggles.. If you've not been in rough enough weather to need them than forget I mentioned them but they do work incredibly well in nasty conditions and keep the salt spray out of your eyes. I always have a few pair on board, when going off shore, because you never know when they might come in handy. Poor design, fit and function would NEVER be accepted in the alpine world nor would non articulated sleeves, lack of pit zip venting and over blown ballistic cloth material that prevents freedom of movement and breathe ability. The weight of the "offshore" ballistic type cloth is 98% unnecessary IMHO. I have yet to rip/abrade any jacket in 35 years of sailing and I've been in numerous offshore races and in some very, very nasty weather. I would have to say that back coutry tele-skiing through the trees of the White and Green mountains challenges my gear substantially more than sailing and none of my alpine jackets are made of anywhere near the weight cloth as my LLoyd or Musto. The difference is the alpine gear manufacturers actually field test, and research, what the high wear points are and reinforce those points only to keep weight down and keep freedom of movement up. Yes I won't deny I have ripped a few alpine jackets but hitting a low hanging, dead branch of a spruce tree while back county tree skiing. At 18-20 mph this would rip any of my jackets including my LLoyd or Musto. The only thing most alpine climbing jackets lack is a wrist drip cuff and reflective tape. I wear a Mustang inflatable life jacket at night, and in rough weather, and it has reflective tape so no need for it on my jacket too but it could be added very easily.. I also have a strobe on it so I don't really need it on my jacket too. I'll trade those two features any day of the week for far better freedom of movement, substantially higher breathe ability, articulated hood with multiple fit draw cords, articulated arms and superior ventillaltion while remaining totally waterproof at less cost! Here's an idea before you buy a jacket jump in a pool with it on and see how tired you get treading water with the restricted movement of these jackets. Musto, LLoyd and the others need to learn a few things about designing gear and product testing before I'll lay down 600 clams for that over priced under designed "glamoure gear" again... Check out the Patagonia web site and look at the Skanorak and Chute To Thrill jackets. I own them both, because the outlet is 10 minutes away, and they are very comfortable and far more breathable than ANY "sailing" gear I've ever owned. I wear an older version of the Chute to Thrill more often than not but also love my Skanorak. After my Henri Lloyd debacle I decided to try a Musto and it too was a totally uncomfortable poor breathing non articulated fire mans suit. Since my two experiences I truly feel bad for people wearing "marine foulies". The design of the high altitude gear sold at Patagonia, The North Face, EMS, REI, Backcountry.com etc. etc. is meant to withstand winds of 80+mph snow, ice and freezing rain while remaining easy to move in and waterproof + breathable. Buy yourself a nice 3 layer Gore-tex shell from North Face, Patagonia, EMS, Mountain Hardwear, L.L. Bean, Arc'teryx, Cloudveil Marmot or one of the other quality names and you'll be fine, most likely pay less, and be far more comfortable. A sailboat can't dish out nearly the punishment that I give my jackets when climbing or back country skiing through the pointed Spruce trees.. My wife wears an Arc'teryx shell and absolutely loves it! Plus it's cut for a woman. Backcountry.com is a great place to buy from if you have not! Remember to size a shell so you can layer under it if necessary.
Shrimper boots
"The only department we couldn't solve was shoes. I haven't come up with anything waterproof that wouldn't also leave black scuff marks; but if someone has an answer for northern sailors, I'd love to hear." You might want to look into shrimper boots. At least, that's what they're known as down here. White rubber boots. I think commercial fisherman use them, too. Might not provide the warmth you're looking for, but some socks should help out there. Oh yeah, they're usually cheap (about $20)
"The only department we couldn't solve was shoes. I haven't come up with anything waterproof that wouldn't also leave black scuff marks; but if someone has an answer for northern sailors, I'd love to hear." You might want to look into shrimper boots. At least, that's what they're known as down here. White rubber boots. I think commercial fisherman use them, too. Might not provide the warmth you're looking for, but some socks should help out there. Oh yeah, they're usually cheap (about $20)
Boots!
I have a set of WM Boots that I bought on clearance (due to size - size 13) that were available. They're also great for washing the boat down. They are 10", rubber, but have a felt lining. I've only used then in the rain once and they worked perfectly to keep me dry along with the HLloyd foulies. I keep a pair of white, cotton sox in a zip lock bag and store them in the boots for when I wear them. I basically sail in the early to late summer and they fit the bill, perfectly. The cost is about $35.00 retail, but watch for them on sale.
I have a set of WM Boots that I bought on clearance (due to size - size 13) that were available. They're also great for washing the boat down. They are 10", rubber, but have a felt lining. I've only used then in the rain once and they worked perfectly to keep me dry along with the HLloyd foulies. I keep a pair of white, cotton sox in a zip lock bag and store them in the boots for when I wear them. I basically sail in the early to late summer and they fit the bill, perfectly. The cost is about $35.00 retail, but watch for them on sale.
Stuff gets Old
I wouldn't advise buying a lot of gear to stuff in a closet for when you go sailing some day. Stuff gets old!!!! I'd suggest that you start a dedicated savings account and then use that money to buy gear when you are ready to cruise. This is assuming that you are talking years instead of months. As others have mentioned some good outdoor gear works as well on a mountain as at sea. My wife bought me a new jacket for work and hiking that is at least as comfortable as a raincoat that I bought at Boatersworld. specifically for the sailboat. On a cold wet day it is easy to get chilled. I've found that the raingear isn't as important as what you wear underneath the gear. Good thermal underwear is and important first layer. Cotton is to be avoided. For summer thunderstorms you can get as wet from sweat as from rain. Breathable with a lot of vents is important. Again what is underneath the raingear can be more important than the raingear. I have gotten chilled during summer rains. Usually the temperature drops during and after a storm and combine that with wind and it's easy to get cold. Vents or breathable??? It seems that the breathable stuff often leaks when there is a lot of wind. Breathable is good when you are getting a lot of exercise but underarm and back vents seem to work better for me standing at the helm is a driving rain.
I wouldn't advise buying a lot of gear to stuff in a closet for when you go sailing some day. Stuff gets old!!!! I'd suggest that you start a dedicated savings account and then use that money to buy gear when you are ready to cruise. This is assuming that you are talking years instead of months. As others have mentioned some good outdoor gear works as well on a mountain as at sea. My wife bought me a new jacket for work and hiking that is at least as comfortable as a raincoat that I bought at Boatersworld. specifically for the sailboat. On a cold wet day it is easy to get chilled. I've found that the raingear isn't as important as what you wear underneath the gear. Good thermal underwear is and important first layer. Cotton is to be avoided. For summer thunderstorms you can get as wet from sweat as from rain. Breathable with a lot of vents is important. Again what is underneath the raingear can be more important than the raingear. I have gotten chilled during summer rains. Usually the temperature drops during and after a storm and combine that with wind and it's easy to get cold. Vents or breathable??? It seems that the breathable stuff often leaks when there is a lot of wind. Breathable is good when you are getting a lot of exercise but underarm and back vents seem to work better for me standing at the helm is a driving rain.
Boots from Ace Hardware
the black ones with the lighter tan soles are a very inexpensive way to get your feet to stay dry.
the black ones with the lighter tan soles are a very inexpensive way to get your feet to stay dry.
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