In reading the recent posts concerning vessel sinkings as result of an offshore collision with a floating object, it occurred to me that none of the persons involved in sinkings had tried the time-tested technique of fothering a big hole in the hull of a vessel. What is that?...It is simply plugging a big hole in the hull by passing a sail, trap, plastic sheet or what-have-you-got-handy under the hull and stretching it over the hole, by using ropes run under from each side and then led forward or aft to pull the membrane over the hole, then tying it off at the four corners. The whole idea is that the inrushing water pressure causes the fothering membrane to cover and effectively close the hole, and then the water pressure holds it in place while the ropes used to pull it into place hold the mebrane from being swept off the hole by the speed of passage. It is not a water-tight solution, but it will allow the pump to keep pace and thus save the vessel, cargo and crew from sinking. A case of this technique being used occurred when the ice-strengthened motor vessel "Arctic", cruising in northern waters circa about 1980, struck an iceberg and ripped a forty-foot gash in her 800-foot long steel hull, below the waterline. She was many hours steaming from any port. The crew fothered her with a big tarp and then they set a thin layer of hydraulic cement over the hole, from inside the hull. In this way, they were able to make port at Resolute Bay, on Cornwallis Island, NWT, and there they beached her. She was eventually refloated and taken to Halifax for a proper repair. I have heard that this vessel continues in use to this day as an arctic community resupply ship. Good idea to remeber, if the worst should happen to anyone at sea.
FOTHERING...an old but valid idea
- Thread starter Skippercanuck
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As small and light as plastic tarps are these days
it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have one tucked away just for something like this. That and a can of Fiberglass (like ya use in auto body repair)and some matting, you could then affect a temporary patch to sail it home, provided you could get to that part of the hull.
it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have one tucked away just for something like this. That and a can of Fiberglass (like ya use in auto body repair)and some matting, you could then affect a temporary patch to sail it home, provided you could get to that part of the hull.
Charlie you can't use polyester resin where there
is any water present. Some of the epoxies will stick underwater but not polyester. The old method after fothering was to cover the damage with anything that would conform to the hull and would fill gaps, place a hatch over that and brace it in place. One of the most effective pads for this is a modern disposable diaper. They have a water absorbing polymer in them that swells up like crazy.
is any water present. Some of the epoxies will stick underwater but not polyester. The old method after fothering was to cover the damage with anything that would conform to the hull and would fill gaps, place a hatch over that and brace it in place. One of the most effective pads for this is a modern disposable diaper. They have a water absorbing polymer in them that swells up like crazy.
It seems to me that placing trash bags filled with
air in the birth and in the the aft end would keep it afloat. The Mac 25 is filled with styrofoam blocks. You really don't have to dispace that much water to keep a boat afloat. At the suggestion of the Coast Guard I now carry bees wax (toilet sealing ring) and rags for such emergenices. Frank
air in the birth and in the the aft end would keep it afloat. The Mac 25 is filled with styrofoam blocks. You really don't have to dispace that much water to keep a boat afloat. At the suggestion of the Coast Guard I now carry bees wax (toilet sealing ring) and rags for such emergenices. Frank
Sounds good on paper.
It depends on the size of the hole or crack. If your boat weighs 10,000 lbs, then the water is pushing in with a fairly good force and depending on the size of the hole, it would probably shred your tarp and crush your trash bags of air. If the water is coming in quickly enough you probably would have your boat sink while you are trying to get your tarp in place. And also this may only work in calm water. I like the idea of diapers. I'm 60 years old, I guess i could stock up in advance. Depends. No pun intended, yea right. This brings another question to mind. If the hole were under the V-berth and water was gushing in, would I have the guts to put myself into a tight corner with no real escape possible if my plan failed or would I take my chances in the water with very large predators swimming near by. If you can answer that question, you are full of s**t. You never know how you will react until the time comes. You only think you know. Anyway, all of these are good possible solutions and at least now we are armed with something in mind as opposed to being clueless and in a panic. Then there is always the unthinkable....use your Easter Bunny to plug the hole. Is that considered sacraligous, Ross? Tony B
It depends on the size of the hole or crack. If your boat weighs 10,000 lbs, then the water is pushing in with a fairly good force and depending on the size of the hole, it would probably shred your tarp and crush your trash bags of air. If the water is coming in quickly enough you probably would have your boat sink while you are trying to get your tarp in place. And also this may only work in calm water. I like the idea of diapers. I'm 60 years old, I guess i could stock up in advance. Depends. No pun intended, yea right. This brings another question to mind. If the hole were under the V-berth and water was gushing in, would I have the guts to put myself into a tight corner with no real escape possible if my plan failed or would I take my chances in the water with very large predators swimming near by. If you can answer that question, you are full of s**t. You never know how you will react until the time comes. You only think you know. Anyway, all of these are good possible solutions and at least now we are armed with something in mind as opposed to being clueless and in a panic. Then there is always the unthinkable....use your Easter Bunny to plug the hole. Is that considered sacraligous, Ross? Tony B
Ross, I wasn't talking about resin based glass.
I was talking about the crap we use in body shops. It's almost like bondo and yes, you'd have to stop the flow and dry it off but it sets in about 5 minutes. With all of the spaceage stuff available, there has to be something better for situations like this. Something off the wall that's being used for a different purpose.
I was talking about the crap we use in body shops. It's almost like bondo and yes, you'd have to stop the flow and dry it off but it sets in about 5 minutes. With all of the spaceage stuff available, there has to be something better for situations like this. Something off the wall that's being used for a different purpose.
Even the cooks shirt if that's what it takes.
There are epoxy patch kits that will stick and cure under water. If you can save the boat you are a thousand times better off than in a life raft. Damage control is something that we should all consider. Better to ground your boat than to let it sink.
There are epoxy patch kits that will stick and cure under water. If you can save the boat you are a thousand times better off than in a life raft. Damage control is something that we should all consider. Better to ground your boat than to let it sink.
Depending on how big a hole -
I agree Tony, any hole larger than a few inches would take a boat down in a few minutes; unless you have a really big boat. For nothing too massive, I still like the Nerf football idea someone came up with a while back. Two or three could plug a pretty big hole real fast. R.A.B.
I agree Tony, any hole larger than a few inches would take a boat down in a few minutes; unless you have a really big boat. For nothing too massive, I still like the Nerf football idea someone came up with a while back. Two or three could plug a pretty big hole real fast. R.A.B.
Okay, let's try for some real life
situation. First we don't have nrf balls or baby diapers on board. So what do we have that can be used to control a major breach of the hull? Bedding. Hatch covers. Boat hooks can be used as braces. Dinnette tables can be torn from place and broken up if it comes to thateverything that is not required to steer the boat or keep it afloat is subject to use as damage control material for saving the boat. More Ideas. Please.
situation. First we don't have nrf balls or baby diapers on board. So what do we have that can be used to control a major breach of the hull? Bedding. Hatch covers. Boat hooks can be used as braces. Dinnette tables can be torn from place and broken up if it comes to thateverything that is not required to steer the boat or keep it afloat is subject to use as damage control material for saving the boat. More Ideas. Please.
Two Ross's?.
You guys are onto something serious here. The boat cushions are usually several different sizes and shapes on a boat. They are flexible and waterproof to a certain degree. Something stiff behind them like a table top and the expandable boat hooks for braces and voila! The Bunny Rabbit gets to live. All jokes aside, stuffed toys would also posibly help. I drive thru Baytown a couple of times a month. Where do you keep your boat? Tony B
You guys are onto something serious here. The boat cushions are usually several different sizes and shapes on a boat. They are flexible and waterproof to a certain degree. Something stiff behind them like a table top and the expandable boat hooks for braces and voila! The Bunny Rabbit gets to live. All jokes aside, stuffed toys would also posibly help. I drive thru Baytown a couple of times a month. Where do you keep your boat? Tony B
Drape a sail.
We were always taught that if the hole/leak is forward of the beam, you drape a sail around the bow and back to cover the hole, so the water pressure caused by the forward movement of the boat will hold the sail tightly against the hull.
We were always taught that if the hole/leak is forward of the beam, you drape a sail around the bow and back to cover the hole, so the water pressure caused by the forward movement of the boat will hold the sail tightly against the hull.
Ross B
I like the idea of the Nerf football as the initial response to a hole. It can go a long way to buying time for a better temp repair job. I agree that anything like a 4" or bigger hole is going to seem like someone has turned on a fire hose inside the boat. It wouldn't take very long to sink her and the Nerf ball could gain valuable time with a very easy insert. It's light easy to store and will conform to almost any shape. I'm gonna add one to my "e" kit.
I like the idea of the Nerf football as the initial response to a hole. It can go a long way to buying time for a better temp repair job. I agree that anything like a 4" or bigger hole is going to seem like someone has turned on a fire hose inside the boat. It wouldn't take very long to sink her and the Nerf ball could gain valuable time with a very easy insert. It's light easy to store and will conform to almost any shape. I'm gonna add one to my "e" kit.
Both boats at Bayland Tony -
30' Hunter and 28' Horstman trimaran. Can you say boat poor. Only saving grace is monthly slip for both is $245.
30' Hunter and 28' Horstman trimaran. Can you say boat poor. Only saving grace is monthly slip for both is $245.
I got to the lift after a sinking with a cockpit
cushion inside (the hole was under the port seat in the cabin) and a heavy tool box on top of the cushion. Holed the boat entering an unfamiliar marina near Anacortes, Washington about 2 AM in a southerly. 20 years old and no sense. Sailed across the Strait of Juan De Fuca in the dark in about 40 knots of breeze. There was an old rotted off piling close to shore in the marina entrance, which put a hole in the boat in less time that it takes to tell it. The piling was marked on the chart when I looked at it the next day, but I wasn't looking close enough when I came flying in downwind in the dark. Got her tied up to a bigger boat so she didn't sink. 18 foot plywood hard chine sloop which was my home at the time (1970). Slept in the laundry room on top of two washers and glad to be there, warm and alive. They didn't lock 'em at night in those days. We got a gas powered pump on her the next morning and with the cushion and tool box, it kept her afloat long enough to get into the slings. The hole was almost square. About a foot square. Plywood is a pleasure to patch. I was soggy but underweigh three days later. I don't sail much in the dark any more. Certainly not across the strait with a gale warning.
cushion inside (the hole was under the port seat in the cabin) and a heavy tool box on top of the cushion. Holed the boat entering an unfamiliar marina near Anacortes, Washington about 2 AM in a southerly. 20 years old and no sense. Sailed across the Strait of Juan De Fuca in the dark in about 40 knots of breeze. There was an old rotted off piling close to shore in the marina entrance, which put a hole in the boat in less time that it takes to tell it. The piling was marked on the chart when I looked at it the next day, but I wasn't looking close enough when I came flying in downwind in the dark. Got her tied up to a bigger boat so she didn't sink. 18 foot plywood hard chine sloop which was my home at the time (1970). Slept in the laundry room on top of two washers and glad to be there, warm and alive. They didn't lock 'em at night in those days. We got a gas powered pump on her the next morning and with the cushion and tool box, it kept her afloat long enough to get into the slings. The hole was almost square. About a foot square. Plywood is a pleasure to patch. I was soggy but underweigh three days later. I don't sail much in the dark any more. Certainly not across the strait with a gale warning.
Murphy's law holds under water
I think Tonyb's thinking is the right avenue on this, even a small hole is going to fill your usual size keelboat up pretty fast and how many of us would be brave enough to be rummaging around down there when we might not even be able to see how big a hole we're dealing with and the water's coming in fast? Do you want to be down in your salon or quarterberth or v-berth if she takes a list and suddenly starts filling from the hatches and ports that you didn't have time to close? Realistically speaking, the skipper's first responsibility when you're holed is to make sure you've radioed for help and gotten all your guests jacketed and ready to take to the water in whatever flotation you have handy. How many of you are going to deal with all that and then take time to disappear down below before it's too late? And Murphy's law will clearly require that the "hole" will turn out to be some kind of long gash without any easy or obvious place to tuck your nerf football or bedding or whatever--and you'll have spent all your precious time verifying that fact. Still, in the spirit of the exercise I'll suggest that keeping a few self-inflating racing buoys down below and using all inflatables like kayaks, dinghys, and even pillows, will give you a bunch of buoyant stuff that might keep the coach roof afloat while you wait for help...
I think Tonyb's thinking is the right avenue on this, even a small hole is going to fill your usual size keelboat up pretty fast and how many of us would be brave enough to be rummaging around down there when we might not even be able to see how big a hole we're dealing with and the water's coming in fast? Do you want to be down in your salon or quarterberth or v-berth if she takes a list and suddenly starts filling from the hatches and ports that you didn't have time to close? Realistically speaking, the skipper's first responsibility when you're holed is to make sure you've radioed for help and gotten all your guests jacketed and ready to take to the water in whatever flotation you have handy. How many of you are going to deal with all that and then take time to disappear down below before it's too late? And Murphy's law will clearly require that the "hole" will turn out to be some kind of long gash without any easy or obvious place to tuck your nerf football or bedding or whatever--and you'll have spent all your precious time verifying that fact. Still, in the spirit of the exercise I'll suggest that keeping a few self-inflating racing buoys down below and using all inflatables like kayaks, dinghys, and even pillows, will give you a bunch of buoyant stuff that might keep the coach roof afloat while you wait for help...
Much depends on the strength of the hull
If you can tear a long gash in the hull then very likely your boat has a paper thin hull. Bietzpadlin is more than 1 inch thick from the turn of the bilge to the cabin top. If I ever strike something I will search for damage and determine the proper effort for control of the posible flooding.
If you can tear a long gash in the hull then very likely your boat has a paper thin hull. Bietzpadlin is more than 1 inch thick from the turn of the bilge to the cabin top. If I ever strike something I will search for damage and determine the proper effort for control of the posible flooding.
Fothering is not a one man job.
In todays modern fiberglas deck, cabin, hull joined boats the easiest way to find a hole in the hull may be to dive under. If alone, at night or in foul weather that would not be advisable. If the water intrusion is through the keel joint I don't think fothering would work. If you are in the middle of the Pacific try anything but if you are 10 miles from shore call the Coast Guard.
In todays modern fiberglas deck, cabin, hull joined boats the easiest way to find a hole in the hull may be to dive under. If alone, at night or in foul weather that would not be advisable. If the water intrusion is through the keel joint I don't think fothering would work. If you are in the middle of the Pacific try anything but if you are 10 miles from shore call the Coast Guard.
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