I've been working on my new (used) Catalina 22 that I bought in February. I've been chasing down 3 cabin leaks and killed off 2 of the three at the source (outside the deck under fittings). The last one I have is the biggest one unfortunately. I've been trying to find it after it rains and still chasing it. It leaves a puddle on the aft port set just left of the cabin entry door. The water is kind of "tea" colored. I resealed the stanchions, and the forward bow railing on that side (sorry, I don't have the official name, but you know what I mean!) I still have to seal the other three posts on that still. Anyway, looking at the forward hatch above the v-berth, I found it was wet along the port side edge (one of he previous owners had done some repairs there, which was kind of falling apart). I took the hatch off and scraped off some of the old sealant and was able to peek in the gap between the ceiling and the edge of the hatch. Prying it open with a screwdriver and peeking in, I saw - yes - the DREADED soggy plywood! UGH! tapping around the deck with a hammer, I seem to have tracked it to the edge of the deck mostly on the port side, but there is a spot on the starboard side near the hatch also. I did a temporary seal around the hatch with some tub caulk just to seal it from more water, but I still have to deal with this now. I think this is where the water leak came from, then drained along the ceiling panel to the rear of the boat where it could then spill out onto the seat. I'm sure this is common, but I'm kind of worried. Any ideas what I should do now? Forget it and seal it? Tear the boat apart to replace the plywood? Dry it out somehow? Patch it? <*sigh*> Tom Catalina 22 #880 1971
Forward deck hatch -- the dreaded soggy wood
- Thread starter tegwilym
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So what!
rebed the hatch and all other hardware and go sailing. Do you want to live for ever? If you lovew the boat, have the time and don't mine the way it is going to look when your done. Cut the fiberglass and peel it off, replace the wood, place to old fiber back on and seal it up with epoxy.
rebed the hatch and all other hardware and go sailing. Do you want to live for ever? If you lovew the boat, have the time and don't mine the way it is going to look when your done. Cut the fiberglass and peel it off, replace the wood, place to old fiber back on and seal it up with epoxy.
Fiberglass
Yeah! Now that's the right attitude, cover it up, seal it, and go sailing!
I've been reading other forums on this common problem, and read about a guy that stepped on his deck and it sank about 3 inches - yikes! Mine isn't noticeable unless you tap it with hammer and hear the thud, or peek in the gap under the hatch frame and see dark plywood. I'm sure that is where the leak in the back is coming from, and that would explain why the puddle of water is brown... Any other comments from anyone with similar stories? Tom
Yeah! Now that's the right attitude, cover it up, seal it, and go sailing!
I've been reading other forums on this common problem, and read about a guy that stepped on his deck and it sank about 3 inches - yikes! Mine isn't noticeable unless you tap it with hammer and hear the thud, or peek in the gap under the hatch frame and see dark plywood. I'm sure that is where the leak in the back is coming from, and that would explain why the puddle of water is brown... Any other comments from anyone with similar stories? Tom
Same thing
I had a very similar experience. I cannot just ignore something like that. I drilled a series of holes from underneath in the cabin into the soggy void. Then I got a oil gun and filled it with penetrating expoxy. Then I closed each hole with tape. I went from hole-to-hole, starting at the lowest hole, filling the soggy void with epoxy. Took a fair amount. Keep pumping it in there. When the epoxy hardened the deck was stiff again. Then I filled the holes with Marine-tex and was done. The best part is that working from the bottom means you avoid the basically impossible job of matching the non-skid. To aid the pumping I took a rubber cork the size of the holes and drilled a hole through it that the tip of the oil gun went trough. I also filed the oil gun tip so the expoxy came out the side of the tip. Coverr the V-berth with tarps. This job is messy.
I had a very similar experience. I cannot just ignore something like that. I drilled a series of holes from underneath in the cabin into the soggy void. Then I got a oil gun and filled it with penetrating expoxy. Then I closed each hole with tape. I went from hole-to-hole, starting at the lowest hole, filling the soggy void with epoxy. Took a fair amount. Keep pumping it in there. When the epoxy hardened the deck was stiff again. Then I filled the holes with Marine-tex and was done. The best part is that working from the bottom means you avoid the basically impossible job of matching the non-skid. To aid the pumping I took a rubber cork the size of the holes and drilled a hole through it that the tip of the oil gun went trough. I also filed the oil gun tip so the expoxy came out the side of the tip. Coverr the V-berth with tarps. This job is messy.
oil gun method
That sounds like a good idea. How big were your holes if you were using a rubber stopper to do this? Did you have a pretty mushy deck that you pretty much pumped in epoxy to fill in where the rotten wood was and call it good? My deck doesn't seem bouncy or soft there, but rather just has the familiar "thud" sound when I tap it with a hammer. Maybe it isn't a huge deal yet, but it annoys and worries me that the boat is falling apart. I also think of future re-sale value when it's time to upgrade to a bigger ship! (I'll try to take some photos tonight and share them) Tom
That sounds like a good idea. How big were your holes if you were using a rubber stopper to do this? Did you have a pretty mushy deck that you pretty much pumped in epoxy to fill in where the rotten wood was and call it good? My deck doesn't seem bouncy or soft there, but rather just has the familiar "thud" sound when I tap it with a hammer. Maybe it isn't a huge deal yet, but it annoys and worries me that the boat is falling apart. I also think of future re-sale value when it's time to upgrade to a bigger ship!
(I'll try to take some photos tonight and share them) TomMarine plywood
The plywood in the deck of my C25 is marine plywood. I found that it was wet, but not rotted. More than likely it's not rotted, just wet Let it air dry by opening it up like you did with your screwdriver. Put the blue tarps on the boat with a de-humidifier inside and let the sun dry out the wood. This will probably take all summer. After it is dry, fill the void with epoxy and clamp it together. It's a huge job. I used empty caulk tubes and made giant syringes for this. If you take your time and do this correctly, It'll last forever. You will need to over-drill and epoxy fill all the holes in the deck also. All 100 something of them. IMO Cutting the skin open and replacing the wood core is not worth the cost to revive a Catalina. I replaced the wood core in the coach sides and it was a huge job. You can see the process here. If you decide to make the giant syringes, drop me an email and I'll give you some tips. Dan
The plywood in the deck of my C25 is marine plywood. I found that it was wet, but not rotted. More than likely it's not rotted, just wet Let it air dry by opening it up like you did with your screwdriver. Put the blue tarps on the boat with a de-humidifier inside and let the sun dry out the wood. This will probably take all summer. After it is dry, fill the void with epoxy and clamp it together. It's a huge job. I used empty caulk tubes and made giant syringes for this. If you take your time and do this correctly, It'll last forever. You will need to over-drill and epoxy fill all the holes in the deck also. All 100 something of them. IMO Cutting the skin open and replacing the wood core is not worth the cost to revive a Catalina. I replaced the wood core in the coach sides and it was a huge job. You can see the process here. If you decide to make the giant syringes, drop me an email and I'll give you some tips. Dan
Holes
I drilled about six or seven 1/2" holes around the perimeter of the void area. In my case the upper (deck) level of glass had come loose from the core. I was able to inject the expoxy into that upper void. You may need more holes if this is not your situation. By drilling holes you can tell how large the wet area is, it may not be large. If it is just around the hatch I would skip the holes. Based on what I have read and seen of your situation I would pry the area open like you have but leave it pried open (maybe use little cedar wedges?), have fun sailing this summer, cover the boat in the winter, and deal with it next spring. By then a lot of drying will have happened. Your core looks wet but not all soft and pulpy to me. The issue may just be right along the hatch edges. If the wet area is large then add some holes now and do as suggested above. Also, please remove the tub caulk and use real marine caulk. In fact you should edit your original post so no one else learns that you did this. ;D
I drilled about six or seven 1/2" holes around the perimeter of the void area. In my case the upper (deck) level of glass had come loose from the core. I was able to inject the expoxy into that upper void. You may need more holes if this is not your situation. By drilling holes you can tell how large the wet area is, it may not be large. If it is just around the hatch I would skip the holes. Based on what I have read and seen of your situation I would pry the area open like you have but leave it pried open (maybe use little cedar wedges?), have fun sailing this summer, cover the boat in the winter, and deal with it next spring. By then a lot of drying will have happened. Your core looks wet but not all soft and pulpy to me. The issue may just be right along the hatch edges. If the wet area is large then add some holes now and do as suggested above. Also, please remove the tub caulk and use real marine caulk. In fact you should edit your original post so no one else learns that you did this. ;D
Caulk
Thanks for the tips. Yeah, I'll re-caulk that. The tub stuff was just temporary until I got the real stuff. I'm in Seattle and summer weather doesn't start until after July 5! Just keeping the rain out. Tom
Thanks for the tips. Yeah, I'll re-caulk that. The tub stuff was just temporary until I got the real stuff. I'm in Seattle and summer weather doesn't start until after July 5! Just keeping the rain out. Tom
Giant syringes
Dan, I couldn't find a link to your email. Could you send me some tips on the syringes you made? I'm not sure if my wood is rotten or not, but you know that I'm hoping it isn't. Maybe I'll try prying that open a bit and see if I can dry it out. Putting the tub caulk (ok, no comments please - it's what I had for quick use!) seemed to fix the leak. We had a lot of rain today and I didn't see the familiar brown puddle in back. I'll check again tomorrow and hope it's gone. Fingers crossed! Tom
Dan, I couldn't find a link to your email. Could you send me some tips on the syringes you made? I'm not sure if my wood is rotten or not, but you know that I'm hoping it isn't. Maybe I'll try prying that open a bit and see if I can dry it out. Putting the tub caulk (ok, no comments please - it's what I had for quick use!) seemed to fix the leak. We had a lot of rain today and I didn't see the familiar brown puddle in back. I'll check again tomorrow and hope it's gone. Fingers crossed! Tom
Dry
Tom, I would think that if you decide to epoxy any rotten areas as ND describes, I'd try to make sure that the wood core is as dry as possible first. I would tarp the boat. Probably drill out the holes as he suggested and maybe add a small heater for a while to get that area warmer/dryer. That way any penetrating of the epoxy is going to work better towards a stronger deck. Another trick might be to add some filler to the epoxy if you have a large void. Just a thought. As for the caulk. You can't imagine what kind of discussions I've already had about using silicone to seal things. In spite of it all, I think that silicone works good on my chainplates because it compresses to a tight seal and remains flexible for years.
Tom, I would think that if you decide to epoxy any rotten areas as ND describes, I'd try to make sure that the wood core is as dry as possible first. I would tarp the boat. Probably drill out the holes as he suggested and maybe add a small heater for a while to get that area warmer/dryer. That way any penetrating of the epoxy is going to work better towards a stronger deck. Another trick might be to add some filler to the epoxy if you have a large void. Just a thought. As for the caulk. You can't imagine what kind of discussions I've already had about using silicone to seal things. In spite of it all, I think that silicone works good on my chainplates because it compresses to a tight seal and remains flexible for years.
Tom, your second photo
shows what appears to be a crack in the edge molding of the hatch, on the forward port side corner. That may be one place that water is entering. You can also use a hair dryer to heat the area and reduce the time needed to dry, which in your neighborhood may never do it on its own. Catalina or Catalina Direct may sell replacement parts for that edge molding.
shows what appears to be a crack in the edge molding of the hatch, on the forward port side corner. That may be one place that water is entering. You can also use a hair dryer to heat the area and reduce the time needed to dry, which in your neighborhood may never do it on its own.
Catalina or Catalina Direct may sell replacement parts for that edge molding.Crack
The molding around the hatch is in fairly good shape. There is some small parts of "alligatoring" cracks on the top part of it though. I did seal the small gap between the deck and the molding with the tub caulk (yeah, point and laugh!). We had a very miserable and wet sunday, and my familiar puddle didn't show up for the first time, so I'm pretty sure I found the source. I've been thinking of maybe at least starting with using some small shims to hold that gap open, use a small electric heater and maybe a dryer duct up there to direct warm air into the gap to start drying that out. I also bought some 5200 equivalent stuff (from the boat shop) to use to re-seal my deck hardware. That's a bit of a job, but I've got a few things done. Just have to get through all that stuff. I also plan on replacing the wooden cabin hatch tracks with some of those plastic ones that are at Catalinadirect. That's my next part that I'm ordering. Other than that, I've love sailing this boat! I had it out twice this weekend. Totally wonderful and a very comfortable boat. If I don't get out every weekend now, I think I go into withdrawls. Tom
The molding around the hatch is in fairly good shape. There is some small parts of "alligatoring" cracks on the top part of it though. I did seal the small gap between the deck and the molding with the tub caulk (yeah, point and laugh!). We had a very miserable and wet sunday, and my familiar puddle didn't show up for the first time, so I'm pretty sure I found the source. I've been thinking of maybe at least starting with using some small shims to hold that gap open, use a small electric heater and maybe a dryer duct up there to direct warm air into the gap to start drying that out. I also bought some 5200 equivalent stuff (from the boat shop) to use to re-seal my deck hardware. That's a bit of a job, but I've got a few things done. Just have to get through all that stuff. I also plan on replacing the wooden cabin hatch tracks with some of those plastic ones that are at Catalinadirect. That's my next part that I'm ordering. Other than that, I've love sailing this boat! I had it out twice this weekend. Totally wonderful and a very comfortable boat. If I don't get out every weekend now, I think I go into withdrawls.
Tom
Tom, recommend you DON'T use the 5200-like
stuff to bed anything. Really. It's essentially a super glue that I personally believe should only be used in ONE place on a boat: the hull to deck joint. Anything that needs to be bedded is going to eventually have to be re-bedded, and 5200 is very difficult (comparatively) to get off. Just use silicone or Boat Life Caulk or Sika Flex. You need a SEAL, not a GLUE. Do an archive search on 5200 and you'll get lots of opinions, some of 'em mine. Please, before you use that stuff, do some homework and make an informed decision of your own.
stuff to bed anything. Really. It's essentially a super glue that I personally believe should only be used in ONE place on a boat: the hull to deck joint. Anything that needs to be bedded is going to eventually have to be re-bedded, and 5200 is very difficult (comparatively) to get off. Just use silicone or Boat Life Caulk or Sika Flex. You need a SEAL, not a GLUE. Do an archive search on 5200 and you'll get lots of opinions, some of 'em mine. Please, before you use that stuff, do some homework and make an informed decision of your own.
5200
I probably got that name wrong, I got something else that said it was kind of a flexible caulk kind of stuff that can be used in water...etc. I've been using kind of a white rubbery stuff, maybe it is similar to 4200? Here it is - http://www.boatersworld.com/product/377540018msk.htm
I probably got that name wrong, I got something else that said it was kind of a flexible caulk kind of stuff that can be used in water...etc. I've been using kind of a white rubbery stuff, maybe it is similar to 4200? Here it is - http://www.boatersworld.com/product/377540018msk.htm
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