60% of responding Hunter owners have had some form of formal sailing training, according to last week's Quick Quiz. Where did you find the most benefit? Power Squadron, ASA certification, or a good local sailing school? Was classroom training beneficial, or was an on-the-water curriculum better for you? Write your thesis here.
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Ken Palmer
A great way to learn
When my wife Ruth and I bought our first sailboat, a 28 foot Irwin, we decided that we had better take some lessons on how to sail that sucker. We convinced our friends Sue and Al to go along with us on a one week session in St. Petersburg with one of the larger sailing schools. The first weekend was learning the basics. The next five days was cruising from port to port. We all had to do all of the jobs. We had great weather, from calm days to very windy days. Best of all, we had a skipper that was a great teacher. He was patient with us, and we all laughed at some of our stupid mistakes. I believe this had to be one of the best learning experiences for the four of us, as well as a terrific "vacation". I would recommend it to anybody wanting to learn from scratch, or just improve their skills. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty (1981 H33, Rochester, NY)
When my wife Ruth and I bought our first sailboat, a 28 foot Irwin, we decided that we had better take some lessons on how to sail that sucker. We convinced our friends Sue and Al to go along with us on a one week session in St. Petersburg with one of the larger sailing schools. The first weekend was learning the basics. The next five days was cruising from port to port. We all had to do all of the jobs. We had great weather, from calm days to very windy days. Best of all, we had a skipper that was a great teacher. He was patient with us, and we all laughed at some of our stupid mistakes. I believe this had to be one of the best learning experiences for the four of us, as well as a terrific "vacation". I would recommend it to anybody wanting to learn from scratch, or just improve their skills. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty (1981 H33, Rochester, NY)
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Mark
What I did on my summer vacation
I took sailing lessons when I was 11 years old. Actually my mom, in a flash of brilliance, figured it was a good way to get my brother and me out of the house for a while during the summer of '67. My parents then bought a Cal 20 and started racing. Having 2 almost teenage sons meant my brother and I were instant crew, and so we were shanghi'd into the Sunday races. Being sailors, we took pride in the fact we could (and did almost everytime) approach a mooring ball or our slip under sail. Having to use the little Seagull outboard motor was a sign of weakness (and a pain in the rear to "rig"). More racing, skippering and crew, we finally bought our own boat 4 years ago. My wife learned to sail crewing on Dragons. In preparation for buying our first boat she took a sailing course from Womenship. Unfortunately there wasn't much wind so they had to motor. She gained a lot of experience using the motor: learning to crab and fill, making all types of approaches, learning hand signals from the bow so no one has to yell. My wife and I are a team on the boat. She can handle herself in every situation about as well as I can, and in some instances even better. I wouldn't have it any other way!! If I had to learn how to sail in my adult years I would indeed use one of the schools where you could spend a week aquiring new skills. But then I would also practice in a dingy. In a dingy, laser or sunfish you can experiment with different sailing angles, working without a center board or rudder, etc. If you mess up and capsize.. so what, you are learning. That's why so many of the top racers return to their dingy roots at times, to hone the skills they learned so long ago. (And try to recapture some of the pure fun of their youth) Isn't that one of the reasons we sail in the first place?? Mark Whitson s/v Tequila
I took sailing lessons when I was 11 years old. Actually my mom, in a flash of brilliance, figured it was a good way to get my brother and me out of the house for a while during the summer of '67. My parents then bought a Cal 20 and started racing. Having 2 almost teenage sons meant my brother and I were instant crew, and so we were shanghi'd into the Sunday races. Being sailors, we took pride in the fact we could (and did almost everytime) approach a mooring ball or our slip under sail. Having to use the little Seagull outboard motor was a sign of weakness (and a pain in the rear to "rig"). More racing, skippering and crew, we finally bought our own boat 4 years ago. My wife learned to sail crewing on Dragons. In preparation for buying our first boat she took a sailing course from Womenship. Unfortunately there wasn't much wind so they had to motor. She gained a lot of experience using the motor: learning to crab and fill, making all types of approaches, learning hand signals from the bow so no one has to yell. My wife and I are a team on the boat. She can handle herself in every situation about as well as I can, and in some instances even better. I wouldn't have it any other way!! If I had to learn how to sail in my adult years I would indeed use one of the schools where you could spend a week aquiring new skills. But then I would also practice in a dingy. In a dingy, laser or sunfish you can experiment with different sailing angles, working without a center board or rudder, etc. If you mess up and capsize.. so what, you are learning. That's why so many of the top racers return to their dingy roots at times, to hone the skills they learned so long ago. (And try to recapture some of the pure fun of their youth) Isn't that one of the reasons we sail in the first place?? Mark Whitson s/v Tequila
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George Lamb
After The Fact
Several years ago while I was working in Australia, my wife and I owned a 26 foot single hull that we sailed and raced all over Sydney Harbor. As I had never had any formal training, I learned to sail by trial and error. Recently, we took a week long class to get our ASA sertification. The class started with home study (Florida Yacht Charters sent us all the documentation in advance), and then we went to Miami to actually take the class. Since we had sailing experience we decided to "challenge" the basic keel boat class, which means we took the writen test without going all the way through the initial class. We then went on to take the coastal cruising and bareboat charter classes. What weI learned was that there are a lot of tried and true methods for sailing that were much easier than the ways that we had developed by trial and error. Some of the task that seemed extremely difficult the "old way" were actually quite simple when we learned how to do them correctly. Miami is a great place to learn chartwork, there are many shallow areas, wrecks and reefs. If you do not get your chartwork correct, you WILL run aground. I am currently studying to take the ASA coastal navigation test. All in all, I am a very big convert to ASA style sailing classes. If only I had taken them years ago, I would have had a much easier sailing life! My wife and I are now looking into purchasing a new Hunter. I will look forward to making more posts after I am actually a HOW!
Several years ago while I was working in Australia, my wife and I owned a 26 foot single hull that we sailed and raced all over Sydney Harbor. As I had never had any formal training, I learned to sail by trial and error. Recently, we took a week long class to get our ASA sertification. The class started with home study (Florida Yacht Charters sent us all the documentation in advance), and then we went to Miami to actually take the class. Since we had sailing experience we decided to "challenge" the basic keel boat class, which means we took the writen test without going all the way through the initial class. We then went on to take the coastal cruising and bareboat charter classes. What weI learned was that there are a lot of tried and true methods for sailing that were much easier than the ways that we had developed by trial and error. Some of the task that seemed extremely difficult the "old way" were actually quite simple when we learned how to do them correctly. Miami is a great place to learn chartwork, there are many shallow areas, wrecks and reefs. If you do not get your chartwork correct, you WILL run aground. I am currently studying to take the ASA coastal navigation test. All in all, I am a very big convert to ASA style sailing classes. If only I had taken them years ago, I would have had a much easier sailing life! My wife and I are now looking into purchasing a new Hunter. I will look forward to making more posts after I am actually a HOW!
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Scott Johnston
Worked well on our boat
I had some sailing experience but it was going to be a new experience for my wife, when we brought our first boat. We contacted a local captain who gave sailing lessons. He and a friend came down to our boat for a 3 day weekend. There were 5 of us on board and we did everything from basic boat handling thru anchoring. We went offshore twice. Gave us a wealth of experience and confidence in handling our own boat - not someone else's. Scott. 83-H34 Island Hops
I had some sailing experience but it was going to be a new experience for my wife, when we brought our first boat. We contacted a local captain who gave sailing lessons. He and a friend came down to our boat for a 3 day weekend. There were 5 of us on board and we did everything from basic boat handling thru anchoring. We went offshore twice. Gave us a wealth of experience and confidence in handling our own boat - not someone else's. Scott. 83-H34 Island Hops
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Jay Eaton
Me too, after the fact
Since I am one who suggested this quiz, I should respond. We, my mate and I, have been boating since 1970. Our next boat will be our 9th, fourth sailboat. I started sailing with my brother-in-law on the great lakes - if you are looking for some heavy weather experience, I can suggest Lake Huron and upper Lake Michigan in the late summer or fall. After getting the sail bug (we had been power boaters), I bought my first sailboat, a Catalina 22, and learned by doing on a little lake full of alligators in Louisiana. However, having grown up in the Air Force, I was raised in training. And even though I took a basic boating course from the USCGA way back in 1970, maybe, I thought, it would be a good time for some refresher and some formal sail training. So, I signed up with BaySail at Havre de Grace, MD, for the ASA basic course. It was a terrific three days. The entire program, except for the written test, was conducted on the water. Hands-on training is the best for learning. Furthermore, with two boats, and two classes, on the water at the same time, re-learning the rules of the road was very easy. It was easy to see who was the "stand on" and who was the "give way" boat. Additionally, we tried out a couple of MOB recovery techniques and observed how the boat behaves when it is hove to. If you haven't tried the ASA course or if it has been a few years, I highly recommend it. Besides, it was fun to sail on small boats again. Qualified again!
Since I am one who suggested this quiz, I should respond. We, my mate and I, have been boating since 1970. Our next boat will be our 9th, fourth sailboat. I started sailing with my brother-in-law on the great lakes - if you are looking for some heavy weather experience, I can suggest Lake Huron and upper Lake Michigan in the late summer or fall. After getting the sail bug (we had been power boaters), I bought my first sailboat, a Catalina 22, and learned by doing on a little lake full of alligators in Louisiana. However, having grown up in the Air Force, I was raised in training. And even though I took a basic boating course from the USCGA way back in 1970, maybe, I thought, it would be a good time for some refresher and some formal sail training. So, I signed up with BaySail at Havre de Grace, MD, for the ASA basic course. It was a terrific three days. The entire program, except for the written test, was conducted on the water. Hands-on training is the best for learning. Furthermore, with two boats, and two classes, on the water at the same time, re-learning the rules of the road was very easy. It was easy to see who was the "stand on" and who was the "give way" boat. Additionally, we tried out a couple of MOB recovery techniques and observed how the boat behaves when it is hove to. If you haven't tried the ASA course or if it has been a few years, I highly recommend it. Besides, it was fun to sail on small boats again. Qualified again!
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Bob E.
Canadian Pleasure Craft Operator's Card
The Canadian Coast Guard has instituted a program that will require all operators of power-driven boats (including auxiliary sailboats and personal watercraft) to have proof of formal training, or "grandfathered" experience for older boaters. This will be phased in over 10 years. For more information on accredited courses and legal details, see http://www.sailon.org/sstart.htm I agree with previous posts that formal training can greatly enhance boating pleasure and safety. How many of us could have "invented" efficiant MOB procedures without instruction? I wish the Canadian requirements were much stricter and to be phased in more quickly. Over the years,I've taken the Canadian Yachting Association's White Sail (dinghy), Basic, Intermediate, and Advanced Coastal Cruising, and Coastal Navigation courses, as well as a couple of First Aid courses, and I've enjoyed and benefited from them all. I wish there were fewer "checkbook" sailors out there and more people who knew the rules of the road and how to handle their boats. I'm not saying that there are not some very good self-taught sailors, I'm sure there are many, but I worry about the others.
The Canadian Coast Guard has instituted a program that will require all operators of power-driven boats (including auxiliary sailboats and personal watercraft) to have proof of formal training, or "grandfathered" experience for older boaters. This will be phased in over 10 years. For more information on accredited courses and legal details, see http://www.sailon.org/sstart.htm I agree with previous posts that formal training can greatly enhance boating pleasure and safety. How many of us could have "invented" efficiant MOB procedures without instruction? I wish the Canadian requirements were much stricter and to be phased in more quickly. Over the years,I've taken the Canadian Yachting Association's White Sail (dinghy), Basic, Intermediate, and Advanced Coastal Cruising, and Coastal Navigation courses, as well as a couple of First Aid courses, and I've enjoyed and benefited from them all. I wish there were fewer "checkbook" sailors out there and more people who knew the rules of the road and how to handle their boats. I'm not saying that there are not some very good self-taught sailors, I'm sure there are many, but I worry about the others.
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Dave Derr
Very Valuable
The "Admiral" and I took a couple of courses at Annapolis Sail School prior to buying our first boat. In fact, a couple of years prior. It was a great experience and really helped introduce my wife and I to the rules of the road and the mechanics of sailing. I'm planning on taking a coastal navigation course in the relatively near future as well.
The "Admiral" and I took a couple of courses at Annapolis Sail School prior to buying our first boat. In fact, a couple of years prior. It was a great experience and really helped introduce my wife and I to the rules of the road and the mechanics of sailing. I'm planning on taking a coastal navigation course in the relatively near future as well.
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Richard Mewhinney
Wouldn't do without
Being relatively new to sailing and boating in general I/we wouldn't do without the training. And I do agree with Bob E. that the new regulations in Canada although long overdue are insufficient and really need to be beefed up. When we were considering getting into boating/sailing we took a week vacation to take the CYA basic cruising course. For new sailers, this was particularilly useful due to its practical nature. We were on a boat for the 5 days, performing each and every task under the supervision of an instructor. I have since followed up with the Intermediate cruising course and coastal navigation course. However, we have also become involved in the Canadian Power and Sail Squadran where the courses are more theoretical than practical. I believe that both have an important role to play. Clearly theory without practice is insufficient but, I think we get to a stage where we need to understand the teory to advance to the next stage. In my experience, CYA has deemphasised the theory too much in the same fashion as CPSS has no practical requirement. The two together however make a very valuable combination insuring that we are able to effectively handle the boat, while understanding the principles behind it. I strongly recommend that people consider both methods of training in order to gain the greatest amount of enjoyment out of their sailing experiences whether on their own or someone elses boat.
Being relatively new to sailing and boating in general I/we wouldn't do without the training. And I do agree with Bob E. that the new regulations in Canada although long overdue are insufficient and really need to be beefed up. When we were considering getting into boating/sailing we took a week vacation to take the CYA basic cruising course. For new sailers, this was particularilly useful due to its practical nature. We were on a boat for the 5 days, performing each and every task under the supervision of an instructor. I have since followed up with the Intermediate cruising course and coastal navigation course. However, we have also become involved in the Canadian Power and Sail Squadran where the courses are more theoretical than practical. I believe that both have an important role to play. Clearly theory without practice is insufficient but, I think we get to a stage where we need to understand the teory to advance to the next stage. In my experience, CYA has deemphasised the theory too much in the same fashion as CPSS has no practical requirement. The two together however make a very valuable combination insuring that we are able to effectively handle the boat, while understanding the principles behind it. I strongly recommend that people consider both methods of training in order to gain the greatest amount of enjoyment out of their sailing experiences whether on their own or someone elses boat.
J
Jim MacMIcking
ASA Training in Corpus Christi, TX
I took a 5 day liveaboard course at Corpus Christi Sailing Academy, located in Corpus Christi, TX. I selected this school not only for the ASA affiliation but that it also offered ocean, bay, and ICW cruising during the 5 day course. Add to that the opportunity of docking in various ports plus an evening of "gunk hole" and I had a training course that presented most common experiences to the casual cruisier. Learned a lot both in the classroom and during the hands on sailing of a 48' boat. Great experience and I highly recommend the school to everyone.
I took a 5 day liveaboard course at Corpus Christi Sailing Academy, located in Corpus Christi, TX. I selected this school not only for the ASA affiliation but that it also offered ocean, bay, and ICW cruising during the 5 day course. Add to that the opportunity of docking in various ports plus an evening of "gunk hole" and I had a training course that presented most common experiences to the casual cruisier. Learned a lot both in the classroom and during the hands on sailing of a 48' boat. Great experience and I highly recommend the school to everyone.
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G.Baggett
Also after the fact
I spent several years crewing on primarily racing boats years ago and only recently decided to purchase a boat and get the family involved. After several months owning a Santana 22, my wife decided a bigger boat was in order. This led to the decision to order a new Hunter 290 through Crusing Specialists/Club Nautique on San Francisco Bay. As a part of this deal, we received free ASA lessons through Bareboat. Although I already sailed, the classes have proven to be a great experience especially with respect to crew overboard and handling the larger boat. Highly recommend this course. Wife begins her instruction next week.
I spent several years crewing on primarily racing boats years ago and only recently decided to purchase a boat and get the family involved. After several months owning a Santana 22, my wife decided a bigger boat was in order. This led to the decision to order a new Hunter 290 through Crusing Specialists/Club Nautique on San Francisco Bay. As a part of this deal, we received free ASA lessons through Bareboat. Although I already sailed, the classes have proven to be a great experience especially with respect to crew overboard and handling the larger boat. Highly recommend this course. Wife begins her instruction next week.
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Michele and Tony Hamer
School Name
We just purchased a Hunter 310 and would love to take a sailing course prior to our boat being commissioned in May. Would like to know the name of the school you spoke so highly of. I can be emailed at shelzii2@aol.com or by phone, 978-356-8799. Thank you, Michele and Tony.
We just purchased a Hunter 310 and would love to take a sailing course prior to our boat being commissioned in May. Would like to know the name of the school you spoke so highly of. I can be emailed at shelzii2@aol.com or by phone, 978-356-8799. Thank you, Michele and Tony.
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Jay Hill
Sail Training Response
I too have been sailing for about 20 years, but started in the "learn by falling off the boat" type of environment. Later I was fortunate enough to crew on racing rigs but due to my size, was always appointed as a grinder on the jib sheets. This left me with little need for knowledge about the other 9/10ths of sailing. Some years ago however, I decided I wanted to get into chartering in various parts of the world and started making some phone calls. The key requirement for the best boats at the best companies was some documented experience and preferrably some type of formal training. I was referred to the ASA and the rest has become my life. I registered to take the basic keelboat and basic coastal cruising courses and was totally shocked by all of the information I never knew existed. I continued the education with bareboat charter, coastal navigation, advanced coastal cruising and celestial navigation (I'll be doing offshore passagemaking next year.) Things were going so well, and I was so pleased with the ASA program I decided to buy the very school where I was taught and became an ASA Instructor through coastal nav. Although I wouldn't want to use the HOW forums as an advertising media, I would like to share some thoughts from our students. Our school selected the ASA certification program due to its comprehensive training nature and its focus on cruising training. The majority of my customers are those who may want to charter large vessels in various island spots around the world. To do this, they also find they need some type of documented experience and/or formal training. Many of the students we get are experienced sailors but are pleasantly surprised at the amount of information they learn, and skills they enhance in the ASA courses. Some have said "I can't believe I've been doing that wrong all these years." Others have commented " I didn't know there were navigation rules on the water." Some have finally learned the names of all the parts on their boats. Some have never been faced with a COB situation but now feel like it is their most important skill - going slow in control. Some had wondered how all boats didn't have a big dent in the port side from docking in a slip; now they are able to expertly dock any boat in a variety of conditions. More advanced sailors really appreciate the "do-it-the-old-fashioned-way" of the coastal navigation course. Roughly 50% of the experienced people that take the course say they are doing so because of a GPS or other electronics failure experienced during cruising or chartering. Still a good portion of our students are newbies that have either never been on a boat or never been on a sailboat. These students are equally impressed with the curriculum and ASA. For newbies and owners alike, the extensive training on safety requirements, equipment, sail trim, motoring, reefing, heave-to, points of sail, anchoring, and especially COB recovery methods has proved an enlightening and confidence-building experience. And as we say at our school: "The best way to have fun is feel confident, the best way to feel confident is feel safe, and THAT'S why Safety is First!" Our school definitely believes in continued training; we offer First Aid, Adult CPR, and Boater Education from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. All of our Instructors are also dedicated and are either USCG Captains with Master's Licenses or Texas Parks and Wildlife Boater Education Instructors or both. We even have the only ASA Instructor Evaluator in the state of Texas on staff at our school. I strongly recommend a formal training, especially a certification, program for all sailors. Either ASA or US Sailing provide excellent programs and can both be found on the web. For those that have always been coastal or bay sailors, a certification program might be the training you need to feel confident in making longer, farther trips to exotic destinations. Besides, it's great fun. Just an added note for Hunter, our school currently uses four boats for training, three of which are Hunters: 25, 31, and 33. The fourth is a Catalina 25, but don't tell anybody, OK? Regards, Jay Hill Owner, Texas Sailing Schools An ASA Certification Facility 214.215.SAIL
I too have been sailing for about 20 years, but started in the "learn by falling off the boat" type of environment. Later I was fortunate enough to crew on racing rigs but due to my size, was always appointed as a grinder on the jib sheets. This left me with little need for knowledge about the other 9/10ths of sailing. Some years ago however, I decided I wanted to get into chartering in various parts of the world and started making some phone calls. The key requirement for the best boats at the best companies was some documented experience and preferrably some type of formal training. I was referred to the ASA and the rest has become my life. I registered to take the basic keelboat and basic coastal cruising courses and was totally shocked by all of the information I never knew existed. I continued the education with bareboat charter, coastal navigation, advanced coastal cruising and celestial navigation (I'll be doing offshore passagemaking next year.) Things were going so well, and I was so pleased with the ASA program I decided to buy the very school where I was taught and became an ASA Instructor through coastal nav. Although I wouldn't want to use the HOW forums as an advertising media, I would like to share some thoughts from our students. Our school selected the ASA certification program due to its comprehensive training nature and its focus on cruising training. The majority of my customers are those who may want to charter large vessels in various island spots around the world. To do this, they also find they need some type of documented experience and/or formal training. Many of the students we get are experienced sailors but are pleasantly surprised at the amount of information they learn, and skills they enhance in the ASA courses. Some have said "I can't believe I've been doing that wrong all these years." Others have commented " I didn't know there were navigation rules on the water." Some have finally learned the names of all the parts on their boats. Some have never been faced with a COB situation but now feel like it is their most important skill - going slow in control. Some had wondered how all boats didn't have a big dent in the port side from docking in a slip; now they are able to expertly dock any boat in a variety of conditions. More advanced sailors really appreciate the "do-it-the-old-fashioned-way" of the coastal navigation course. Roughly 50% of the experienced people that take the course say they are doing so because of a GPS or other electronics failure experienced during cruising or chartering. Still a good portion of our students are newbies that have either never been on a boat or never been on a sailboat. These students are equally impressed with the curriculum and ASA. For newbies and owners alike, the extensive training on safety requirements, equipment, sail trim, motoring, reefing, heave-to, points of sail, anchoring, and especially COB recovery methods has proved an enlightening and confidence-building experience. And as we say at our school: "The best way to have fun is feel confident, the best way to feel confident is feel safe, and THAT'S why Safety is First!" Our school definitely believes in continued training; we offer First Aid, Adult CPR, and Boater Education from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department. All of our Instructors are also dedicated and are either USCG Captains with Master's Licenses or Texas Parks and Wildlife Boater Education Instructors or both. We even have the only ASA Instructor Evaluator in the state of Texas on staff at our school. I strongly recommend a formal training, especially a certification, program for all sailors. Either ASA or US Sailing provide excellent programs and can both be found on the web. For those that have always been coastal or bay sailors, a certification program might be the training you need to feel confident in making longer, farther trips to exotic destinations. Besides, it's great fun. Just an added note for Hunter, our school currently uses four boats for training, three of which are Hunters: 25, 31, and 33. The fourth is a Catalina 25, but don't tell anybody, OK? Regards, Jay Hill Owner, Texas Sailing Schools An ASA Certification Facility 214.215.SAIL
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