Foam Luff

Jackdaw · Feb 19, 2014

Danny,

Will the ice ever melt???

We have a foam luff on our cruising 140% genoa on Kestrel. Its a Neil Pryde performance dacron sail. The foam does a good job of flattening the belly of the remaining sail when it rolled to about 105%. That helps in the higher wind speeds you see when you put the sail in that configuration.

Like you I'm not a big fan of using a partially rolled sail. 95% of the time when cruising we have our 105% blade jib up anyway; the boat is fast enough with that sail in any conditions where we would not be motoring anyway.

So to me it would depend on if you would use the sail rolled. If you would, its a good idea. If you never do that, its just extra cost, and it does affect the shape of the sail's entry into the wind.

Sandy Stone · Feb 19, 2014

I had a 155 built with a foam luff and I never thought it helped very much. Maybe with a smaller or flatter cut sail, I don't know.

CCHer · Feb 19, 2014

I had it on my two previous boats, 30 and 31 feet respectively. It worked well taking up about 25% of the headsail and not so much after that. Not on my current boat but am thinking about adding it-not a high priority.

py26129 · Feb 19, 2014

I had one on a previous boat, on our 150 and it did a great job. We actually had two 150s on that boat, one with a foam luff the other without.

The 150 without the foam luff was terrible when partially furled (big belly of loose cloth in the middle and very tight on the leech and foot.) The 150 with the foam loff furled nicely and kept its shape quite well no matter how much was furled. One we replace the Genoa on our current boat, I will make sure it has a foam luff.

Given the variety of responses you have received, I would venture to say that the evffectiveness may depend on how good a job the sailmaker does in making sure the shape and thickness of the foam luff is correct for the sail.

Cheers

Matt

Gunni · Feb 19, 2014

I have the NP OEM 150% Genoa w/foam luff. Very effective, definitely worth it. A 110 would be nice, but in reality, taking down and storing a genoa is a pain, so the foam luff is a good compromise.

Brian S · Feb 19, 2014

In my opinion, there are 3 things needed for roller furling and reefing headsails 1) UV protection, either colored Sunbrella on the leech and foot, or a sock 2) Reef point reinforcement patches on the leech and foot corresponding with common reef points. For a 135% genoa, I'd probably go about 110% and 90%. 3) Foam in the luff, to take up some bagginess when reefed.

If you don't include reef point reinforcements, you can be sure you will prematurely stretch out your headsail if you reef it.

Notice I said for a furling and reefing headsail… Some folks have roller furling, and prefer to swap out headsails, rather than reef on the furler. If you chose that route, and just used your furler for furling, then you could dispense with the foam luff and reef points. In this scenario, it would probably be best to have a colored Sunbrella or Weathermax sock for the headsail, rather than having UV protectant strips on all of your headsails.

I have seen photos of headsails "protected" with white Sunbrella strips. The stitching and sailcloth underneath the protectant strips have failed more quickly than the rest of the sail, indicating that white Sunbrella does not protect from UV as well as colored Sunbrella.

Jackdaw · Feb 19, 2014

Brian S said:
I have seen photos of headsails "protected" with white Sunbrella strips. The stitching and sailcloth underneath the protectant strips have failed more quickly than the rest of the sail, indicating that white Sunbrella does not protect from UV as well as colored Sunbrella.

This was more likely UV-resistant dacron, which is available only in white. It is not nearly as sun resistant as Sunbrella, but it weights about 1/4 of what sunbrella weights, and is nowhere near as stiff.

A much better choice for high performance sails. In northern climes it can last the life of the sail, but down south you have to watch it carefully as it does degrade.

CalebD · Feb 19, 2014

Have foam luff on genny and love it.

I'll suggest that just having the foam sewn into the luff may not be all that is necessary for it to furl/reef properly. The furler mechanism has something to do with how the sail shapes.
With our Furlex 101 unit it starts wrapping up the sail in the middle, or belly and then wraps then ends (after one revolution). This seems to really help the shape of the reefed sail.

Brian S · Feb 19, 2014

Jackdaw, you are wise in the ways of sailing (and racing that pretty Blue J), and I respect so much of what you say. For example, I never knew about Dacron UV panels on sails. I'm surely not saying that you are incorrect on the Dacron panels. Here on Pineapple Sails' site, where they show the extra wear, they do say that it's white Sunbrella http://www.pineapplesails.com/articles/border/whiteborder.htm

I only stress this, because some folks may not be aware when they choose the white Sunbrella, and I seek to edumacate 'em

Then again, I see folks at my lake that don't even have any Sunbrella on their furling headsail

I think I'd be more inclined to use a sock, only because we get a lot of light winds, and I wouldn't want to weigh down my jib unnecessarily with the UV strip. As it is now, I don't have roller furling; I only have a hank on jib which I put in a deck bag. It's kind of a bummer, as I realize I'm crinkling up my jib a bit, but I also don't sweat it, because it's not a racing sail or a racing boat

The deck bag is easier for me than hanking and unhanking that jib.

I started out trailering the smaller boat to the lake, and having to step the mast and rig. Then, I started keeping it at the lake with the mast up, but still having to rig and bend on sails. Then I got the bigger boat, and it was so quick and easy to head out for a sail, but for hanking on the jib. Now, I've got the deck bag, and I guess the next step will be a Schaefer Snap-Furl, and a 135% genoa, if I choose to get spendy

Jackdaw said:
This was more likely UV-resistant dacron, which is available only in white. It is not nearly as sun resistant as Sunbrella, but it weights about 1/4 of what sunbrella weights, and is nowhere near as stiff.

A much better choice for high performance sails. In northern climes it can last the life of the sail, but down south you have to watch it carefully as it does degrade.

Warren Milberg · Feb 19, 2014

I've ordered a foam luff when I bought my 155 % furling/reefing genoa from Air Force. I think it was a waster of money. As others have noted, the type of furler you have may be more important. I have a Furlex 200 and it will wrap my other headsail ,that does not have a foam luff, quite tightly without any bellowing anywhere. I have also been able to wrap the sail without the foam luff to just about any size I need and the boat still points well. I would not buy a foam luff again.

Jackdaw · Feb 19, 2014

Brian S said:
Jackdaw, you are wise in the ways of sailing (and racing that pretty Blue J), and I respect so much of what you say. For example, I never knew about Dacron UV panels on sails. I'm surely not saying that you are incorrect on the Dacron panels. Here on Pineapple Sails' site, where they show the extra wear, they do say that it's white Sunbrella http://www.pineapplesails.com/articles/border/whiteborder.htm

I only stress this, because some folks may not be aware when they choose the white Sunbrella, and I seek to edumacate 'em Then again, I see folks at my lake that don't even have any Sunbrella on their furling headsail

I think I'd be more inclined to use a sock, only because we get a lot of light winds, and I wouldn't want to weigh down my jib unnecessarily with the UV strip. As it is now, I don't have roller furling; I only have a hank on jib which I put in a deck bag. It's kind of a bummer, as I realize I'm crinkling up my jib a bit, but I also don't sweat it, because it's not a racing sail or a racing boat The deck bag is easier for me than hanking and unhanking that jib.

I started out trailering the smaller boat to the lake, and having to step the mast and rig. Then, I started keeping it at the lake with the mast up, but still having to rig and bend on sails. Then I got the bigger boat, and it was so quick and easy to head out for a sail, but for hanking on the jib. Now, I've got the deck bag, and I guess the next step will be a Schaefer Snap-Furl, and a 135% genoa, if I choose to get spendy

Brian,

That's all good stuff!

You are totally correct; White Sunbrella is inferior to darkly colored Sunbrella UV wise. Most don't know that. Both are better than UV-dacron, but MUCH heavier. On BlueJ our laminated headsail is on a furler, so that goes in a sock. We thought about UV-dacon, but the slight extra hassle was worth it.

A furler is total plus with the laminated sail; nothing is worse for it (other than flogging) than scrunching it up on the foredeck 4 times each race. We leave it rolled up on the furler all the time, even in the off season!

Jackdaw · Feb 19, 2014

DannyS said:
Hmmmm, so, no consensus here huh?I think for the extra $150 (a bargain by B.O.A.T. standards) I may give it a go since I have heard very little negatives as far as sail performance goes. I'd like to think that when things start going to hell, I could roll the sail up a bit and keep on sailing. The only reason I've never done that is because when we bought the boat 7 or 8 years ago, we needed a new headsail, and I'm just now getting around to replacing it. The sail never reefed well so I've just gotten used to all up or all down. I actually bought an ATN Gale Sail to use when the wind pipes up. I use that sail at least a few times a year and I love what kind of wind that sail allows us to sail in.

Dan,

Part of this is probably because the old sail was blown out, and always had too much draft in it. A new sail should partially roll to a reefed position with the remaining sail out almost perfectly flat. Good aerodynamics for sporty days.

Dave Groshong · Feb 19, 2014

It really does help the sail shape when reefing, we offer a rope luff in place of the foam, it's stiffer and lasts longer, some foam has a tendency to rot:

http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detail-sails.htm

BobM · Feb 19, 2014

I had a CDI furler in my last boat and no foam luff. Sail shape upon furling was not pretty. I was amazed at the difference the foam luff and having a top swivel made on furled shape. UV white Dacron will not last the life of a sail even here in the NE. I would especially avoid it on larger genoas where the leach can rub a spreader unintentionally. Mine wore right through. Fortunately I used some of that adhesive backed material from sailrite to repair it. Needless to say some sort of chafe guard would be worth considering too. Think about the cut also. I like to be able to see under the genoa and the loss of a foot or so of material at the base is a performance trade off I will take for the ability to keep a better lookout under sail.

Kings Gambit · Feb 19, 2014

The Big Question Mark?

Why do we purchase roller furling for the jib to begin with? Just to get away from hanked on sails; or to just get away from having to reserve room below deck for sail storage?

Roller furling w/o functional roller reefing is what the waste of money is in my view. The whole point of roller furling/reefing is that you do not have to carry a full inventory of sails to go cruising; or even racing. One head sail can be used through a range of wind strengths IF the thing can be reefed down and still perform adequately. Without a foam luff built in, it simply cannot do that. If you want a heavy, expensive, high windage foil on which to hoist a head sail with its foot two feet above the deck (loss of sail area), and all you can do with it is roll it out all the way, or roll it in all the way, then I'm stumped. Why would anybody do that? What's the deal?

StinkBug · Feb 20, 2014

Well for those of us who just casually sail around, or sail single handed the convenience of being able to quickly and easily deploy or stow a headsail is a pretty huge benefit. I dont have a roller, and I sail alone most of the time. Being able to pull that sail in from the cockpit in seconds with no struggle would be a huge advantage for me. Right now I have a downhaul line setup and I just have to juggle the sheets, and halyard and try to get all of the sail to land on deck.

That's not really the subject of this discussion though. Carry on.

Foam Luff

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