Flushing Problem - Backflow? Not pumping water to the tank.

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Raftco

.
Sep 23, 2009
59
Catalina 30 MKII, Fin Keel Harwich Port, MA
Hi Peggie,

New to the 'Head' business and a new to me boat. Just commishioned this weekend, was working great for 2 days with us only using it for urine.

About 1/2 way through our sail yesterday, only having used the head about 4 times total, we noticed that the head stopped being able to pump the water from the bowl into the holding tank. We were well enough off shore, so we ran the macerator and opened the above deck holding tank pumpout plug to try and help vent it better. We did notice some funky smells being vented, which made us a bit concerned - you could smell in the cockpit fairly strongly. We could hear the tank run dry, but still couldn't get the toilet to pump into the holding tank.

There appears to be a backflow issue and the toilet handle has pressure against it. I assume this may be an easy fix by just loosening the hoses on the toilet to relieve the pressure? Maybe we got air stuck into the line from improper syphoning? I haven't done that yet for obvious reasons of head fluid traveling back into the boat!

I didn't want to do this without checking from the greater forum first - forgive me if this is a rookie mistake and has been covered, I couldn't find it in my searches of the forum!

Thanks for any help!
 
Last edited:
Dec 2, 1997
8,946
- - LIttle Rock
I have questions before I can answer

Meanwhile, don't even THINK of loosening any hoses!! If the tank vent is blocked or there's a clog, you'll have waste all over you and the boat!

It's helpful to know the make/size/age of your boat to know how it may have been plumbed.

Is the toilet manual or electric? Make/model/approx age of the toilet?

If a manual, is there backpressure in both dry and wet mode or only in one mode...which one?

I'm travelling, so it'll be late today or this evening before I can get back to you. Meanwhile, don't use the toilet again...'cuz if the system is pressurized, it'll only get worse and can damage the tank or the toilet. Don't try to dump or pump out the tank again either...if the vent is blocked it may not be empty after all, and opening the pumpout cap really doesn't do much to help a blocked vent 'cuz the pumpout line is coming from the bottom of the tank...air is needed above the surface. Find the vent thru-hull and scrape it out to remove any dirt dauber nest or other blockage.
 

Raftco

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Sep 23, 2009
59
Catalina 30 MKII, Fin Keel Harwich Port, MA
Re: I have questions before I can answer

The boat is a 1990 Catalina 30. Fairly certain the plumbing and toilet isn't original, it all looks to be in very good condition upon visual inspection.

Unfortunately, I do not know the model of the toilet - I never checked before I left the boat. It is a manual toilet and fairly basic with the bowl fill, bowl empty switch and a pump handle. Fairly new looking toilet, probably under 5 years old.

I did not loosen any lines and have not used it. I have not pumped out the tank or run the macerator again since yesterday either. It can pump some water into the bowl, not great and possible back pressure there too, but does pump some water and when you switch over to the flush it can barely push the water out and there is pressure pushing back on the pump handle.

I think the vent works, when we were using the head on our trip yesterday we could smell it in the cockpit while we were headed into the wind, oh boy could we smell it! I assume the smells were coming out the vent? We have no waste seeping into the boat, we inspected to make sure and the boat was in fine order this morning when I stopped by the marina.

Again thanks for your help!
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Re: Flushing Problem - Backflow? Not pumping water to the t

It sounds like something I have to advise crew about: If you can't operate the pump handle, the wet bowl/dry bowl lever is not operated fully to one function (usually dry bowl). Either you're not operating the WB/DB all the way, or something inside the pump is blocking it.
 

Raftco

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Sep 23, 2009
59
Catalina 30 MKII, Fin Keel Harwich Port, MA
Re: Flushing Problem - Backflow? Not pumping water to the t

Toilet is a jabsco manual full size toilet, twist and lock, very basic model.

I checked the above deck vent, which was free of clogs, growth, corrosion, etc. and was venting. I even went as far as to disconnect the vent from the above deck fitting and test the system with full venting - still couldn't get the water to pump into the tank but could push on the tank and feel/hear the air coming out the vent with no interference. The holding tank was not under any added pressure, so that is all set.

I then switched the toilet to the direct overboard thru hull to test and make sure the toilet pump was working correctly. With only water - no waste whatsoever, had no issue pumping water into the bowl and out of the boat. The holding tank was empty and it has only been water into the toilet since the weekend, no waste yet so I cannot understand where a clog could have formed if there is one?

I believe I narrowed the issue down to the ball valve in between the waste tank and sewage line. This valve is like a hose spicket with a turning device to shut off or open the line from the toilet to the holding tank. It doesn't seem to matter whether the valve is open or closed, no change in the pumping ability. So perhaps the ball valve has failed or is clogged?

The ball valve looks to be epoxied or caulked directly into the waste tank and although it has threads it doesn't look like it is meant to come out very easily without cracking the tank or making a stinking mess. So I'm not sure what my next step should be? Hoping I don't have to replace the entire holding tank because of a failed ball valve and hoping I do not have to disconnect the sewage line to check for a potential clog?

Suggestions, if any....?
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,946
- - LIttle Rock
I think we need to talk...

...I believe I narrowed the issue down to the ball valve in between the waste tank and sewage line. This valve is like a hose spicket with a turning device to shut off or open the line from the toilet to the holding tank. It doesn't seem to matter whether the valve is open or closed, no change in the pumping ability. So perhaps the ball valve has failed or is clogged???

I can't even envision what ball valve you could possibly be asking about...so I think we need to move to voice communication...'cuz I'm so covered up with "it's spring and the boat toilets are in bloom" emails and forum posts that I'm moving everyone onto the phone that I can 'cuz 20 minutes on the phone can accomplish more than reading and typing 10 emails or forum posts. So send me an EMAIL (not a PM) and I'll reply with contact info.
 

Raftco

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Sep 23, 2009
59
Catalina 30 MKII, Fin Keel Harwich Port, MA
Re: Flushing Problem - Backflow? Not pumping water to the t

The problem was a major clog. I found it, have unclogged and replaced the hose. Thank you for the advice.

I had a difficult time getting the sanitation hose onto the fitting, even with using lubricant (grease). Any hints? That santitation hose is rock hard stuff!
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,946
- - LIttle Rock
I had a difficult time getting the sanitation hose onto the fitting, even with using lubricant (grease). Any hints? That santitation hose is rock hard stuff!
Warming a hose makes it a lot easier to get onto a fitting. Just be careful not to OVERheat it.

I'm curious to know what clogged your hose...'cuz unless somebody flushed something they shouldn't have, most clogs dissolve on their own in an hour or two.
 

Raftco

.
Sep 23, 2009
59
Catalina 30 MKII, Fin Keel Harwich Port, MA
Warming a hose makes it a lot easier to get onto a fitting. Just be careful not to OVERheat it.

I'm curious to know what clogged your hose...'cuz unless somebody flushed something they shouldn't have, most clogs dissolve on their own in an hour or two.

It was not a fun sight. The inner lining of the sanitation hose had acutally come apart and created a flap that moved with the flow of the water in the hose lines. So, when I was pumping it was shutting the 'flap' inside the sanitation hose creating a clog of sorts and sending pressure in the line back to the toilet. A certain member on the boat used the facilities without telling me and then created a worse clog because the waste could not get past the 'flap'.

So, I just ended up taking the hose off and replacing it. Everything is working great again. I guess the only good part about this learning experience was that it was early in the season and the head had only been used once. If it had been later on during the year, that would have been ugly....
 
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