Peggy, when conducting the walk-through of my 350 at the end of March, the dealer indicated that we should flush our toilet with fresh water, using the shower hose, in lieu of opening the salt water seacock, to significantly reduce the odor in the tank caused by the micro-organisms in seawater. We have been doing this faithfully and have no odor to speak of. A recent discussion among 350 owners reveals that others are doing the same thing. One owner, however, indicated that this might have adverse consequences for the pump in the toilet. Can you provide your perspective on this issue? Thanks.
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Dealer proves that a little knowledge is worse
than none sometimes. Whether the toilet is flushed with sea water or fresh water makes NO difference whatever in the holding tank. However, flushing with fresh water can prevent odors in the head caused by sea water left to sit and stagnate in the head INTAKE hose and the channel in the rim of the bowl. Keeping the seacock closed and using the shower head to supply flush water won't hurt a manual toilet, but this should NOT be done if the toilet is an electric macerating toilet because running dry will damage both the intake impeller and the intake pump housing...and will make it impossible to switch to sea water if you ever need to. IMO, using the shower head to flush is an unnecessary PITA...and if your dealer were smart, he'd have used this as a selling tool to convince you to upgrade your toilet to an electric designed to use pressurized water. So not only was your dealer wrong about sea water impact on the holding tank, he also missed a sales opportunity. However, there's a very simple way to flush with sea water and still prevent sea water intake odor problems. Odors only occur when sea water is left to sit and stagnate in the head intake...as long as people are aboard and using the the head, there's little or no sea water odor. The solution: modify the plumbing slightly to flush the sea water out before you close up the boat. That only requires re-routing the head sink drain to tee it into the head intake hose. After you've closed all the seacocks (which you should ALWAYS do before leaving the boat), fill the sink with clean fresh water and flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing out the whole system--intake hose, channel in the bowl, and the head discharge hose. Follow the water with a cupful of white vinegar to prevent seawater mineral buildup in the hoses. It is necessary to keep the sink plugged--or install a shutoff valve in the sink drain line that remains closed--except when the sink is use. Otherwise, the toilet will pull air from the sink, which will prevent the pump from priming.
than none sometimes. Whether the toilet is flushed with sea water or fresh water makes NO difference whatever in the holding tank. However, flushing with fresh water can prevent odors in the head caused by sea water left to sit and stagnate in the head INTAKE hose and the channel in the rim of the bowl. Keeping the seacock closed and using the shower head to supply flush water won't hurt a manual toilet, but this should NOT be done if the toilet is an electric macerating toilet because running dry will damage both the intake impeller and the intake pump housing...and will make it impossible to switch to sea water if you ever need to. IMO, using the shower head to flush is an unnecessary PITA...and if your dealer were smart, he'd have used this as a selling tool to convince you to upgrade your toilet to an electric designed to use pressurized water. So not only was your dealer wrong about sea water impact on the holding tank, he also missed a sales opportunity. However, there's a very simple way to flush with sea water and still prevent sea water intake odor problems. Odors only occur when sea water is left to sit and stagnate in the head intake...as long as people are aboard and using the the head, there's little or no sea water odor. The solution: modify the plumbing slightly to flush the sea water out before you close up the boat. That only requires re-routing the head sink drain to tee it into the head intake hose. After you've closed all the seacocks (which you should ALWAYS do before leaving the boat), fill the sink with clean fresh water and flush the toilet. Because the seacock is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing out the whole system--intake hose, channel in the bowl, and the head discharge hose. Follow the water with a cupful of white vinegar to prevent seawater mineral buildup in the hoses. It is necessary to keep the sink plugged--or install a shutoff valve in the sink drain line that remains closed--except when the sink is use. Otherwise, the toilet will pull air from the sink, which will prevent the pump from priming.
Hi John, Peggie is right on with good advice...
we always use sea water to flush our electric heads then close the sea cocks until the next use. When we return from our cruise, and after pumping out the tank and heads, I always pour a gallon of fresh water with Odorlos down each head then flush it into the tank. This has cured our odor problems. Terry
we always use sea water to flush our electric heads then close the sea cocks until the next use. When we return from our cruise, and after pumping out the tank and heads, I always pour a gallon of fresh water with Odorlos down each head then flush it into the tank. This has cured our odor problems. Terry
C350 Head & Freshwater Rinse
John, You wrote: "A recent discussion among 350 owners reveals that others are doing the same thing. One owner, however, indicated that this might have adverse consequences for the pump in the toilet." Yours is a new boat, don't know how many owners have had earlier boats. There's a wealth of knowledge already published, both by Peggie and other Catalina Associations and others, about this specific issue. Heads are in most boats. The beauty of the web is a double edged coin: ask the question, hope to get an answer, but it may be a frequently asked question (which is why there are SOOOO many FAQs around) or do some research on this and other 'sites and narrow the issue after doing a lot of interesting reading The search engines are fantastic, and are really useful. Eventually, regarding your own situation, you will find what works for you. Many options are available. Sometimes it's not the type, size or manufacturer of the boat, but the SYSTEM that is the issue you want to deal with. Good luck, Stu
John, You wrote: "A recent discussion among 350 owners reveals that others are doing the same thing. One owner, however, indicated that this might have adverse consequences for the pump in the toilet." Yours is a new boat, don't know how many owners have had earlier boats. There's a wealth of knowledge already published, both by Peggie and other Catalina Associations and others, about this specific issue. Heads are in most boats. The beauty of the web is a double edged coin: ask the question, hope to get an answer, but it may be a frequently asked question (which is why there are SOOOO many FAQs around) or do some research on this and other 'sites and narrow the issue after doing a lot of interesting reading The search engines are fantastic, and are really useful. Eventually, regarding your own situation, you will find what works for you. Many options are available. Sometimes it's not the type, size or manufacturer of the boat, but the SYSTEM that is the issue you want to deal with. Good luck, Stu
Thanks, Peggy--Another Question
I've used the boat about 20 times since our shakedown cruise on March 28, and have been employing the freshwater flushing routine each time aboard. I've kept the seacock closed the entire time. Based on what you said about the impeller and the intake pump housing, is it too late for me to start opening the seacock and using it to flush? Need to know ASAP as I am off this evening for a three-day weekend cruise. Thanks.
I've used the boat about 20 times since our shakedown cruise on March 28, and have been employing the freshwater flushing routine each time aboard. I've kept the seacock closed the entire time. Based on what you said about the impeller and the intake pump housing, is it too late for me to start opening the seacock and using it to flush? Need to know ASAP as I am off this evening for a three-day weekend cruise. Thanks.
You definitely need a new impeller
Running dry for even a minute fried it. Depending on how many times the toilet's been flushed, there may not even be much left of it. You won't know till you see the inside of the pump housing whether it's been damaged by dry friction heat. The intake pump and impeller not only bring in flush water, but also keeps water from flooding the bowl if there's no vented loop in the intake--which, based on how your dealer told you to use the toilet, I'd bet real money there isn't...and btw, with electric toilets, it has to be an electrically operated loop...so don't open the seacock till the intake pump and impeller are working again...test it by putting the intake hose in a bucket of water. Unless you can find the parts this afternoon, you're prob'ly gonna be stuck with flushing from buckets of sea water if you have to conserve your fresh water supply on your cruise...worry about repairing the toilet, or better yet, replacing it with one designed to use pressurized water when you get back. You should also strongly consider adding a Lectra/San (CG Certified Type I MSD that treats waste and discharges it overboard) too...except for only two very small areas--Herring Bay and The Northern Bays up near Delaware--the Bay is not "no discharge"...treatment devices are legal and a MUCH sounder ecological choice than holding tanks. We'll talk about that when you get back.
Running dry for even a minute fried it. Depending on how many times the toilet's been flushed, there may not even be much left of it. You won't know till you see the inside of the pump housing whether it's been damaged by dry friction heat. The intake pump and impeller not only bring in flush water, but also keeps water from flooding the bowl if there's no vented loop in the intake--which, based on how your dealer told you to use the toilet, I'd bet real money there isn't...and btw, with electric toilets, it has to be an electrically operated loop...so don't open the seacock till the intake pump and impeller are working again...test it by putting the intake hose in a bucket of water. Unless you can find the parts this afternoon, you're prob'ly gonna be stuck with flushing from buckets of sea water if you have to conserve your fresh water supply on your cruise...worry about repairing the toilet, or better yet, replacing it with one designed to use pressurized water when you get back. You should also strongly consider adding a Lectra/San (CG Certified Type I MSD that treats waste and discharges it overboard) too...except for only two very small areas--Herring Bay and The Northern Bays up near Delaware--the Bay is not "no discharge"...treatment devices are legal and a MUCH sounder ecological choice than holding tanks. We'll talk about that when you get back.
Terry, seawater intake odors are more of an issue
in some waters than in others. John is on the Chesapeake Bay, which is not only exceptionally organic, but very shallow, and is also an enclosed body of water...that combination, plus hot summers, means raw water that's full of micro (and not so micro) animal and vegetable life. Warm southern waters are also more likely to cause intake odor problems than cold deep waters. The waters several miles offshore are deeper and cleaner than near coastal waters...and therefore less likely to produce intake odors. If you're doing nothing more than pouring water and Odorlos down the toilet into the tank, you don't have a problem with INTAKE odors...'cuz nothing poured down the toilet ever gets into the intake hose or the channel in the bowl...it just goes out the discharge hose...so nothing poured down the toilet can cure intake odor.
in some waters than in others. John is on the Chesapeake Bay, which is not only exceptionally organic, but very shallow, and is also an enclosed body of water...that combination, plus hot summers, means raw water that's full of micro (and not so micro) animal and vegetable life. Warm southern waters are also more likely to cause intake odor problems than cold deep waters. The waters several miles offshore are deeper and cleaner than near coastal waters...and therefore less likely to produce intake odors. If you're doing nothing more than pouring water and Odorlos down the toilet into the tank, you don't have a problem with INTAKE odors...'cuz nothing poured down the toilet ever gets into the intake hose or the channel in the bowl...it just goes out the discharge hose...so nothing poured down the toilet can cure intake odor.
Just contacted my dealer
with the text of my questions and your responses, and the dealer in turn contacted Wilcox-Crittenden, the manufacturer of the electric head in my boat. The manufacturer told the dealer that what I have been doing is OK and should not have damaged the impeller. The head operates by pulling up on the pedal to bring in sea water and by pushing down on it to flush it. I was told that since I have never pulled up on the pedal, the impeller has never been "activated" and thus should be OK. They advised that I could use it either way if I wanted to.
with the text of my questions and your responses, and the dealer in turn contacted Wilcox-Crittenden, the manufacturer of the electric head in my boat. The manufacturer told the dealer that what I have been doing is OK and should not have damaged the impeller. The head operates by pulling up on the pedal to bring in sea water and by pushing down on it to flush it. I was told that since I have never pulled up on the pedal, the impeller has never been "activated" and thus should be OK. They advised that I could use it either way if I wanted to.
I'll be damned...
I'd have bet real money that your toilet was a Jabsco...'cuz that's what's on 99.99% of Hunters. I would never have guessed it would be a W-C Newport with separate pumps. 99% electric macerating toilets have integral intake pumps...iow, they're wired together so that when you push the button, both the intake and discharge pump & macerator run...no way to separate them. Since 99.999% of Hunters have Jabsco toilets and those that have electric toilets have toilets with integral intake pumps, I naturally assumed that's what's on your boat. So I owe your dealer an apology...well, almost. I still think he should have sold you a toilet designed to use pressurized water instead of a raw water toilet with "work around" instructions for using it. You do need to run some water through the intake pump and/or lubricate the impeller to keep the impeller from drying out and becoming brittle. Always remember that lack of use is often more destructive to equipment that heavy use. As part of winterizing, you should give a good slathering with teflon grease...just open the pump housing...squirt, flush just momentarily to spread it. That's it. About twice a year oughta keep it in good enough shape to allow you to rely on it if you need it.
I'd have bet real money that your toilet was a Jabsco...'cuz that's what's on 99.99% of Hunters. I would never have guessed it would be a W-C Newport with separate pumps. 99% electric macerating toilets have integral intake pumps...iow, they're wired together so that when you push the button, both the intake and discharge pump & macerator run...no way to separate them. Since 99.999% of Hunters have Jabsco toilets and those that have electric toilets have toilets with integral intake pumps, I naturally assumed that's what's on your boat. So I owe your dealer an apology...well, almost. I still think he should have sold you a toilet designed to use pressurized water instead of a raw water toilet with "work around" instructions for using it. You do need to run some water through the intake pump and/or lubricate the impeller to keep the impeller from drying out and becoming brittle. Always remember that lack of use is often more destructive to equipment that heavy use. As part of winterizing, you should give a good slathering with teflon grease...just open the pump housing...squirt, flush just momentarily to spread it. That's it. About twice a year oughta keep it in good enough shape to allow you to rely on it if you need it.
Thanks for all your input on this, but...
my boat is a Catalina 350. I did identify that in my first posting.
my boat is a Catalina 350. I did identify that in my first posting.
Jabsco's are the OEM choice on all Catalina's too.
In fact, they're just about every OEM toilet of choice...'cuz they're the least expensive.
In fact, they're just about every OEM toilet of choice...'cuz they're the least expensive.
The've been Upgrading the Catalina's Peggie
You should take a look at the newer models and features on them. Some minor but nice, Things like the fresh water Plumbing on the C350. The water Tanks are supplied throughout the boat through a single manifold. Makes isolating a bad tank or a leaky system easier, not to mention a single point to do winterization.
You should take a look at the newer models and features on them. Some minor but nice, Things like the fresh water Plumbing on the C350. The water Tanks are supplied throughout the boat through a single manifold. Makes isolating a bad tank or a leaky system easier, not to mention a single point to do winterization.
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