I recently replaced the joker valve and flapper valve on my old Masfield toilet. Things are working better, for sure, but now I notice that if the holding tank is at all full then I get a stink everytime I flush. I put an enzyme treatment in the toilet a few weeks ago, so I expected the stink to be less. Any idea why I'm getting that burp of stink when I flush?
Flush burp?
- Thread starter Stephen OBrien
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I'm not sure what you mean by "burp"
Back through the toilet? Or odor out the tank vent when you flush? If it's odor out the vent when you flush...You added the tank product several weeks ago and haven't added any since??? You can't just add a tank product once and expect it to keep working forever. Most products exhaust themselves in a week or even less in hot weather...ALL of them must be added again after every pumpout. For ANY product to be effective you MUST follow the directions for use on the label. And even then, some products may require more oxygen than the tank vent supplies to work. What did you use? If your toilet is "burping" after flushing, a blocked or partially blocked tank vent is likely to be the cause...air displaced by incoming waste can't get out the vent, so it's pressurizing the tank, creating backpressure that's escaping anywhere it can. Check the vent thru-hull and the fitting on the tank. You might want to check out the link below to learn how to maintain your toilet and tank. I'm surprised you were able to find parts that will fit your Mansfield toilet. It's more than 20 years old--SeaLand bought Mansfield and changed the brand name in 1984...discontinued making manual toilets shortly afterward...and discontinue all parts for 'em--even rebuild kits--in the early '90s. Jabsco offered a "universal" kit that fit several obsolete toilets, including a couple of their own and the Mansfield/SeaLand 751/752...but even that was discontinued a couple of years ago. So it's possible that the Jabsco flapper valve and joker valve fit it...but unlikely that anything else will, 'cuz toilet parts are NOT "one size fits all." the seals, o-rings and gaskets in your toilet have to be completely worn out by now...which means it's barely working, and you can expect it to fail completely soon. When that happens, it's time for a new toilet. In fact, it has to be working so marginally now that I wouldn't even have spent the money for a new joker valve and flapper valve for it.
Back through the toilet? Or odor out the tank vent when you flush? If it's odor out the vent when you flush...You added the tank product several weeks ago and haven't added any since??? You can't just add a tank product once and expect it to keep working forever. Most products exhaust themselves in a week or even less in hot weather...ALL of them must be added again after every pumpout. For ANY product to be effective you MUST follow the directions for use on the label. And even then, some products may require more oxygen than the tank vent supplies to work. What did you use? If your toilet is "burping" after flushing, a blocked or partially blocked tank vent is likely to be the cause...air displaced by incoming waste can't get out the vent, so it's pressurizing the tank, creating backpressure that's escaping anywhere it can. Check the vent thru-hull and the fitting on the tank. You might want to check out the link below to learn how to maintain your toilet and tank. I'm surprised you were able to find parts that will fit your Mansfield toilet. It's more than 20 years old--SeaLand bought Mansfield and changed the brand name in 1984...discontinued making manual toilets shortly afterward...and discontinue all parts for 'em--even rebuild kits--in the early '90s. Jabsco offered a "universal" kit that fit several obsolete toilets, including a couple of their own and the Mansfield/SeaLand 751/752...but even that was discontinued a couple of years ago. So it's possible that the Jabsco flapper valve and joker valve fit it...but unlikely that anything else will, 'cuz toilet parts are NOT "one size fits all." the seals, o-rings and gaskets in your toilet have to be completely worn out by now...which means it's barely working, and you can expect it to fail completely soon. When that happens, it's time for a new toilet. In fact, it has to be working so marginally now that I wouldn't even have spent the money for a new joker valve and flapper valve for it.
Oh, right, the instructions
Thanks, Peggy. It seemed like it was coming from the toilet. The treatment I used was Headzyme and I will be more diligent about keeping up with the treatments. I'm not sure how to go about clearing the tank vent. Is there a way I can test if it's blocked? The rebuild kit I got contained a joker valve that was identical to the old one and the flapper valve also fit just fine, but you are no doubt right about the need for a new toilet. For now, it flushes just fine and if I keep up on the holding tank treatment, I'll probably ok, but how to find out if the vent is blocked?
Thanks, Peggy. It seemed like it was coming from the toilet. The treatment I used was Headzyme and I will be more diligent about keeping up with the treatments. I'm not sure how to go about clearing the tank vent. Is there a way I can test if it's blocked? The rebuild kit I got contained a joker valve that was identical to the old one and the flapper valve also fit just fine, but you are no doubt right about the need for a new toilet. For now, it flushes just fine and if I keep up on the holding tank treatment, I'll probably ok, but how to find out if the vent is blocked?
If the boat is in salt water...
Or even in some fresh water, the odor is most likely stagnant water trapped in the head intake. If it's worse with the first flushes after the boat has been sitting, then goes away...that confirms it. If, otoh, the toilet is actually "burping"--air and or waste coming back into bowl, my money is on the tank vent. Checking the tank vent: 1. Find the vent thru-hull on the outside of the boat...inspect it, poke a screwdriver blade into it--whatever it takes to make sure that there isn't dirt dauber nest or a buildup of waste (from overflowing out the vent while heeled) in it. 2. Remove vent line from the tank, check both the end of the hose and the tank fitting for a buildup...scrape it out if you find any.
Or even in some fresh water, the odor is most likely stagnant water trapped in the head intake. If it's worse with the first flushes after the boat has been sitting, then goes away...that confirms it. If, otoh, the toilet is actually "burping"--air and or waste coming back into bowl, my money is on the tank vent. Checking the tank vent: 1. Find the vent thru-hull on the outside of the boat...inspect it, poke a screwdriver blade into it--whatever it takes to make sure that there isn't dirt dauber nest or a buildup of waste (from overflowing out the vent while heeled) in it. 2. Remove vent line from the tank, check both the end of the hose and the tank fitting for a buildup...scrape it out if you find any.
Saltish water
I'm up the Hudson river where the water is only slightly salty. More to the point, I have kept the water intake closed and used fresh water from a container when flushing. So, most likely, it's the vent. And I just ordered your book. It's the least I can do after all the help you've given me. Now, I'll have the straight poop, so to speak.
I'm up the Hudson river where the water is only slightly salty. More to the point, I have kept the water intake closed and used fresh water from a container when flushing. So, most likely, it's the vent. And I just ordered your book. It's the least I can do after all the help you've given me. Now, I'll have the straight poop, so to speak.
Steven, I'd flush out the intake...
Even fresh water can stagnate and stink given enough time. And, as old as your toilet is, it's likely that some "blow by" of waste in the bowl is occurring, allowing it to get into the intake. Disconnect your head intake line from the thru-hull, stick it in a bucket of clean fresh water and a quart of white vinegar...flush the whole bucketful through your toilet. You still haven't said exactly what your toilet is doing--actually "burping," or just kinda smelly when you flush it. I'm glad you decided to buy my book--for two reasons: 1. I think you'll find it useful...and 2. Buying anything from the online store here helps to support this site.
Even fresh water can stagnate and stink given enough time. And, as old as your toilet is, it's likely that some "blow by" of waste in the bowl is occurring, allowing it to get into the intake. Disconnect your head intake line from the thru-hull, stick it in a bucket of clean fresh water and a quart of white vinegar...flush the whole bucketful through your toilet. You still haven't said exactly what your toilet is doing--actually "burping," or just kinda smelly when you flush it. I'm glad you decided to buy my book--for two reasons: 1. I think you'll find it useful...and 2. Buying anything from the online store here helps to support this site.
"blow by"
Peggy, I have a "smelly when you flush it problem". That is, smell from the toilet in the head when flushed, not the vent. We always flush with fresh water from the shower head or a separate jug of water. I Did the vinegar water flush through the intake from the through hull and that seemed to clean up the problem for a couple of days but now the smell is back. I have never seen you mention the "blow by" thing before and don't remember it from your book. What is that? Could it be my problem? I have a rather old Groco toilet. Also, does a macerating pump have a working life after which it should be changed as a matter of maintenance? I have had to turn mine with the screwdriver slot a few times to get it to run. Do you have a preference between the Jabsco and SHURflo macerator pumps. That's about all I see on the market. And..thank you very much for your continued input on this forum!
Peggy, I have a "smelly when you flush it problem". That is, smell from the toilet in the head when flushed, not the vent. We always flush with fresh water from the shower head or a separate jug of water. I Did the vinegar water flush through the intake from the through hull and that seemed to clean up the problem for a couple of days but now the smell is back. I have never seen you mention the "blow by" thing before and don't remember it from your book. What is that? Could it be my problem? I have a rather old Groco toilet. Also, does a macerating pump have a working life after which it should be changed as a matter of maintenance? I have had to turn mine with the screwdriver slot a few times to get it to run. Do you have a preference between the Jabsco and SHURflo macerator pumps. That's about all I see on the market. And..thank you very much for your continued input on this forum!
Yep, Richard...I suspect some waste is
getting into the upper part of the pump. That the odor went away for even a short time after you flushed out the intake pretty much confirms it. Water--even fresh water--sitting in the summer heat in an anaerobic environment is gonna stagnate and stink...and the warmer the weather, the quicker it's gonna happen. I am NOT a fan of just closing the intake thru-hull and adding water directly to the bowl to flush. For one thing, it's a PITA to have to do...for another, it keeps any water that's ever gotten into the intake sealed up to turn into a primoridal soup. And on small boats, it means sacrificing an already limited supply of fresh water unnecessarily. There are several ways to eliminate sea water odor...one--teeing the head intake into the head sink drain line so you can flush the sea water out of the whole system before closing up the boat--is described in my book ("Intake Odor") and also posted here many times, so can also be found by searching the archives. If that won't work on your boat (no head sink or sink and toilet are on opposite sides of the keel)...a 3/4" y-valve, a short piece of hose and gallon milk jug will accomplish the same thing--when closing up the boat, after you've closed the seacock, fill the jug with clean fresh water...stick the hose in the jug, turn the wye valve...flush the toilet. If you're determined to flush only with fresh water, install a separate 5 gal water tank that is not connected in ANY way to your fresh water system to supply it. Even a bladder will work for this, and a bladder has the added advantage of not requiring a vent (unvented bladders can ONLY be used for fuel or water, NEVER waste!). The most difficult challenge when it comes to adding a flush water tank is filling it...you can't fill it from your fresh water system...adding another deck fill is a PITA...bring a hose into the boat to fill it is an even bigger PITA. But--thanks to some discussion on another board about this same issue--I THINK I've come up with a solution that'll work on most boats...it doesn't conserve any fresh water, but it's a lot easier--and keeps the system rinsed out--than adding water to the bowl: Instead of the usual 1.5" fill, a 3/4" fill (use a reducer if necessary)...using a 3/4" y-valve, connect the fill line to any sink drain line that you can access and still put the tank in a location that will also allow you to connect the toilet intake to it. When you need to fill the flush water tank, turn the y-valve, run water through the sink. Keep the y-valve aimed at the thru-hull except when filling the tank. Before someone asks..."recycling" used wash water, shower water, etc for toilet flushing would only create a new version of the problem you're trying to solve, 'cuz "used" water is full of bacteria, soap scum etc that create smelly sumps. So it's gotta be clean water. As for your macerator question, as long as the motor runs and there are no signs of corrosion in it, a new impeller every year or two should keep it working forever. Flushing it out with clean water regularly--another reason to flush out the tank regularly--will eliminate any sludge that can clog it and also prevent the impeller from sticking to the housing (which can crack the impeller). So I suspect you don't need a new one, yours just needs a new impeller and a "bath." Impellers don't last forever. Every time it has to prime, the impeller has to run dry first. Even if only for a few seconds, that dry friction wears the edges of the impeller vanes a little...and a little more. And the more the vanes are worn, the less and less efficient the pump becomes...till finally, the impeller can pull anything through the pump any more. This is wear that cannot be seen just by looking at the impeller because it's too even--no signs of "fried" neoprene...so an impeller may LOOK fine, but the difference between impeller vanes that fit the housing tightly enough to pull ("impel") waste through the pump and vanes that can't pull anything through is only about twice the width of a human hair. So replace it at least every TWO years--every spring is better---as preventive maintenance if you want your macerator pump to keep working to spec. And THOROUGHLY flush out your tank and macerator at least 3-4 x/year.
getting into the upper part of the pump. That the odor went away for even a short time after you flushed out the intake pretty much confirms it. Water--even fresh water--sitting in the summer heat in an anaerobic environment is gonna stagnate and stink...and the warmer the weather, the quicker it's gonna happen. I am NOT a fan of just closing the intake thru-hull and adding water directly to the bowl to flush. For one thing, it's a PITA to have to do...for another, it keeps any water that's ever gotten into the intake sealed up to turn into a primoridal soup. And on small boats, it means sacrificing an already limited supply of fresh water unnecessarily. There are several ways to eliminate sea water odor...one--teeing the head intake into the head sink drain line so you can flush the sea water out of the whole system before closing up the boat--is described in my book ("Intake Odor") and also posted here many times, so can also be found by searching the archives. If that won't work on your boat (no head sink or sink and toilet are on opposite sides of the keel)...a 3/4" y-valve, a short piece of hose and gallon milk jug will accomplish the same thing--when closing up the boat, after you've closed the seacock, fill the jug with clean fresh water...stick the hose in the jug, turn the wye valve...flush the toilet. If you're determined to flush only with fresh water, install a separate 5 gal water tank that is not connected in ANY way to your fresh water system to supply it. Even a bladder will work for this, and a bladder has the added advantage of not requiring a vent (unvented bladders can ONLY be used for fuel or water, NEVER waste!). The most difficult challenge when it comes to adding a flush water tank is filling it...you can't fill it from your fresh water system...adding another deck fill is a PITA...bring a hose into the boat to fill it is an even bigger PITA. But--thanks to some discussion on another board about this same issue--I THINK I've come up with a solution that'll work on most boats...it doesn't conserve any fresh water, but it's a lot easier--and keeps the system rinsed out--than adding water to the bowl: Instead of the usual 1.5" fill, a 3/4" fill (use a reducer if necessary)...using a 3/4" y-valve, connect the fill line to any sink drain line that you can access and still put the tank in a location that will also allow you to connect the toilet intake to it. When you need to fill the flush water tank, turn the y-valve, run water through the sink. Keep the y-valve aimed at the thru-hull except when filling the tank. Before someone asks..."recycling" used wash water, shower water, etc for toilet flushing would only create a new version of the problem you're trying to solve, 'cuz "used" water is full of bacteria, soap scum etc that create smelly sumps. So it's gotta be clean water. As for your macerator question, as long as the motor runs and there are no signs of corrosion in it, a new impeller every year or two should keep it working forever. Flushing it out with clean water regularly--another reason to flush out the tank regularly--will eliminate any sludge that can clog it and also prevent the impeller from sticking to the housing (which can crack the impeller). So I suspect you don't need a new one, yours just needs a new impeller and a "bath." Impellers don't last forever. Every time it has to prime, the impeller has to run dry first. Even if only for a few seconds, that dry friction wears the edges of the impeller vanes a little...and a little more. And the more the vanes are worn, the less and less efficient the pump becomes...till finally, the impeller can pull anything through the pump any more. This is wear that cannot be seen just by looking at the impeller because it's too even--no signs of "fried" neoprene...so an impeller may LOOK fine, but the difference between impeller vanes that fit the housing tightly enough to pull ("impel") waste through the pump and vanes that can't pull anything through is only about twice the width of a human hair. So replace it at least every TWO years--every spring is better---as preventive maintenance if you want your macerator pump to keep working to spec. And THOROUGHLY flush out your tank and macerator at least 3-4 x/year.
follow-up to blow by
Peggy, Thanks for the reply. I have it on the list to re-plumb this thing at some point. In the mean time, is there a way to prevent the waste water from getting into the upper part of the pump? Does this reflect the age of the pump and would be corrected with a rebuild? Or, should I just break down and get that new Raritan PH-II? And again, do you have a preference between the Jabsco and SHURflo macerating pumps? Thanks again for your time!
Peggy, Thanks for the reply. I have it on the list to re-plumb this thing at some point. In the mean time, is there a way to prevent the waste water from getting into the upper part of the pump? Does this reflect the age of the pump and would be corrected with a rebuild? Or, should I just break down and get that new Raritan PH-II? And again, do you have a preference between the Jabsco and SHURflo macerating pumps? Thanks again for your time!
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