What are the pros and cons to removing the floatation foam from the boat? I do not remeber other sail boats with this and I would like to add storage.
- Status
I am an armchair analyst
Don't forget the guy who says your insurance company will not pay off for loss of boat because you remove it. The only "real" flotation test I have seen is on one Mac model while tied to the dock-hardly a conclusive test for you Great Lakes heavy weather sailors or any other thinking persons. I was thinking once of trying to count the blocks of foam in my boat (no really), figure out the positive flotation moment of ther blocks, weigh the boat, and determine if it would really float if flooded. There is one foam block inside the cockpit gunwhale that falls back and forth when the boat rocks and is situated directly over my peacefully sleeping head- that one I'd throw out any day if I could only reach it!
Don't forget the guy who says your insurance company will not pay off for loss of boat because you remove it. The only "real" flotation test I have seen is on one Mac model while tied to the dock-hardly a conclusive test for you Great Lakes heavy weather sailors or any other thinking persons. I was thinking once of trying to count the blocks of foam in my boat (no really), figure out the positive flotation moment of ther blocks, weigh the boat, and determine if it would really float if flooded. There is one foam block inside the cockpit gunwhale that falls back and forth when the boat rocks and is situated directly over my peacefully sleeping head- that one I'd throw out any day if I could only reach it!
I have seen pictures of scuttled M's
I have actually seen pictures of three different M's, all typically outfitted for extended day sailing, that remained floating. Two on their side and one upright. All three were towed ashore, sustaining damage by being towed like this but remaining afloat. Never saw an S or D though... I wonder if the factory has an answer? Many discussions get quite involved and often heated but nobody puts the question to the factory. With the effort they put into engineering a product for their rather specific market there surely must be more design/testing around the floatation aspect. In all fairness, I don't place any expectation of floating on the boat itself. I ensure myself and crew have pfd's but if the boat floats then that's just an added bonus. Didn't think of the insurance aspect though so I grabbed mine and their IS a clause about altering any positive floatation aspects/devices placed there by the manufacturer. Covers buoyant material, sealed containers and sealed section of the hull. Regardless of any discussion around how well it works on a MAC the insurance aspect (at least from my company) would make it crazy to remove. Chris
I have actually seen pictures of three different M's, all typically outfitted for extended day sailing, that remained floating. Two on their side and one upright. All three were towed ashore, sustaining damage by being towed like this but remaining afloat. Never saw an S or D though... I wonder if the factory has an answer? Many discussions get quite involved and often heated but nobody puts the question to the factory. With the effort they put into engineering a product for their rather specific market there surely must be more design/testing around the floatation aspect. In all fairness, I don't place any expectation of floating on the boat itself. I ensure myself and crew have pfd's but if the boat floats then that's just an added bonus. Didn't think of the insurance aspect though so I grabbed mine and their IS a clause about altering any positive floatation aspects/devices placed there by the manufacturer. Covers buoyant material, sealed containers and sealed section of the hull. Regardless of any discussion around how well it works on a MAC the insurance aspect (at least from my company) would make it crazy to remove. Chris
mac video
there is a sales video of a classic, they flood at the dock, just barely floating (at gunnels) very controled conditions.... I figure it would probably roll and float bow up. let me see if I can find the link
there is a sales video of a classic, they flood at the dock, just barely floating (at gunnels) very controled conditions.... I figure it would probably roll and float bow up. let me see if I can find the link
Floating is floating.
With the cabin full of water the Mac does loose it's self righting capabilitys. So if she is totaly awash there is a good chance she could roll. After all the water balast does not make the bottom much heavier when you have the boat mascerading as a bath tub. All the floatation does is keep her from heading straight for the bottom
With the cabin full of water the Mac does loose it's self righting capabilitys. So if she is totaly awash there is a good chance she could roll. After all the water balast does not make the bottom much heavier when you have the boat mascerading as a bath tub. All the floatation does is keep her from heading straight for the bottom
26S Video with floatation
I have the link and will include it. If you notice, in the video, they drill a 1" hole in the boat and allow it to flood. It is tied to the dock and the mast is pulled over to the side and released. The boat rights itself. (Jenni needs to see the video). Two individuals (adults) step onboard and can remain high enough to stay dry. I'm sure it is, as they say on the video, pretty ineffecient, but I'm sure that it is a better choice for extended periods than a PFD. The hypothermia factor would certainly be preferred as well. As to taking out the floatation. Most of it can be relocated without compromising the factory's intention. I've moved some around on mine and made more convenient storage for myself. Do I expect to sink my boat? Not unless I'm hit by some drunk hot-shoe doing 80 knts showing off for his "bimbos" or "homies". However, if some idiot plows a huge hole in my boat, I'd like to have the chance to get not only my boat and passengers back to shore, but also all that extra stuff I bought for the boat as well. The thought of all that stuff sitting on the bottom of the lake for no reason really irks me. (I know! It's my Quirk). Do I think I'll ever need the floatation? Well, I've learned to have great respect and have great confidence in my boat's stability. I recently had mine out in 30+ mph winds with higher gusts (gusts are the real problem inland). The water ballast boat is far more tender initially than a keel boat or iron swing keel boat. After the initial fear of tipping (I'm actually a "vertical" sailor), I began playing bit by bit with the clinometer. Of course, I know that what I did was not sailing effeciently, but I sure learned a lot and gained tremendous confidence. I could keep the clinometer up over 40 degrees for extended runs without feeling out of control. Gusts would hit and bang me a bit further, but I knew it was going to right itself and if the worst happened and I stuck the tall pole in the water, all I would have to do is hang on and release the sails and allow the boat to right, because it was NOT GOING TO SINK. If I were buying another boat, would I insist on installed floatation? Probably not, but if it were there, I'd sure feel better about it. Take a look at the video and see the evidence for yourself. If the included link does not work, I'll be glad to try again. By the way, the link can also show a 26X. As to "rolling", common sense tells you that the water ballast is not going to lift out of the water to roll even if there is only a modicum of trapped air in the boat. The fact that the ballast is so close to the water surface rather than 5-6 feet below the boat, the initial action of the boat is more tender than the standard type of iron ballast boat. However, the 1400 pounds of ballast has a far more significant effect than the 650 lb iron keel as the lean of the boat tries to elevate it out of the water. The video states that it takes 135 lbs of pressure on the end of the mast to hold it perpendicular to the water. When released, it SNAPS up....no water in the cabin or cockpit.
I have the link and will include it. If you notice, in the video, they drill a 1" hole in the boat and allow it to flood. It is tied to the dock and the mast is pulled over to the side and released. The boat rights itself. (Jenni needs to see the video). Two individuals (adults) step onboard and can remain high enough to stay dry. I'm sure it is, as they say on the video, pretty ineffecient, but I'm sure that it is a better choice for extended periods than a PFD. The hypothermia factor would certainly be preferred as well. As to taking out the floatation. Most of it can be relocated without compromising the factory's intention. I've moved some around on mine and made more convenient storage for myself. Do I expect to sink my boat? Not unless I'm hit by some drunk hot-shoe doing 80 knts showing off for his "bimbos" or "homies". However, if some idiot plows a huge hole in my boat, I'd like to have the chance to get not only my boat and passengers back to shore, but also all that extra stuff I bought for the boat as well. The thought of all that stuff sitting on the bottom of the lake for no reason really irks me. (I know! It's my Quirk). Do I think I'll ever need the floatation? Well, I've learned to have great respect and have great confidence in my boat's stability. I recently had mine out in 30+ mph winds with higher gusts (gusts are the real problem inland). The water ballast boat is far more tender initially than a keel boat or iron swing keel boat. After the initial fear of tipping (I'm actually a "vertical" sailor), I began playing bit by bit with the clinometer. Of course, I know that what I did was not sailing effeciently, but I sure learned a lot and gained tremendous confidence. I could keep the clinometer up over 40 degrees for extended runs without feeling out of control. Gusts would hit and bang me a bit further, but I knew it was going to right itself and if the worst happened and I stuck the tall pole in the water, all I would have to do is hang on and release the sails and allow the boat to right, because it was NOT GOING TO SINK. If I were buying another boat, would I insist on installed floatation? Probably not, but if it were there, I'd sure feel better about it. Take a look at the video and see the evidence for yourself. If the included link does not work, I'll be glad to try again. By the way, the link can also show a 26X. As to "rolling", common sense tells you that the water ballast is not going to lift out of the water to roll even if there is only a modicum of trapped air in the boat. The fact that the ballast is so close to the water surface rather than 5-6 feet below the boat, the initial action of the boat is more tender than the standard type of iron ballast boat. However, the 1400 pounds of ballast has a far more significant effect than the 650 lb iron keel as the lean of the boat tries to elevate it out of the water. The video states that it takes 135 lbs of pressure on the end of the mast to hold it perpendicular to the water. When released, it SNAPS up....no water in the cabin or cockpit.
I'd buy it again!
I just watched the whole movie. I wish I could get a brand new one. I am envious of the S model with no daggerboard well. Quite a few safety violations by the assembly guys- how about the guy with no gloves on smoothing the epoxy in the hull? And of course just breathing the fumes... In the rough weather sailing, the sliding hatch was open and slid forward- those guys weren't too concerned. This makes me want to trailer to the coast. Excellant post!
I just watched the whole movie. I wish I could get a brand new one. I am envious of the S model with no daggerboard well. Quite a few safety violations by the assembly guys- how about the guy with no gloves on smoothing the epoxy in the hull? And of course just breathing the fumes... In the rough weather sailing, the sliding hatch was open and slid forward- those guys weren't too concerned. This makes me want to trailer to the coast. Excellant post!
Isn't that movie interesting?
I too prefer the 26S. I like not having the rudder hanging off on pintles and gudgeons, though there are some advantages to that. I also prefer the swing keel that is much more difficult to jam and damage to the trunk is far less likely, nor is the swing keel as heavy and cumbersome to lift. If I were to get another Mac, my choice would be the X. I like the headroom on entry, though it does mean more freeboard exposed to the wind when launching, landing, or "heaving to". I like the placement of the head for convenience to the cockpit and the open access from the dinette to the v-berth. The twin rudder assures contact with the water regardless of angle of inclination. As far as boats in its class go, I like it about as well as anything and never worried about being out on the Gulf with the "little" boat. If I were cruising fulltime, certainly, I'd want something bigger.....mainly for storage and amenities "necessary" for full-time live aboard. My Mac is not as fast as a J boat but faster than my buddy's Catalina 22 (we sail it together at least once per week and I really enjoy it also). In all, the 26S is a great boat with great capabilities without costing a fortune.
I too prefer the 26S. I like not having the rudder hanging off on pintles and gudgeons, though there are some advantages to that. I also prefer the swing keel that is much more difficult to jam and damage to the trunk is far less likely, nor is the swing keel as heavy and cumbersome to lift. If I were to get another Mac, my choice would be the X. I like the headroom on entry, though it does mean more freeboard exposed to the wind when launching, landing, or "heaving to". I like the placement of the head for convenience to the cockpit and the open access from the dinette to the v-berth. The twin rudder assures contact with the water regardless of angle of inclination. As far as boats in its class go, I like it about as well as anything and never worried about being out on the Gulf with the "little" boat. If I were cruising fulltime, certainly, I'd want something bigger.....mainly for storage and amenities "necessary" for full-time live aboard. My Mac is not as fast as a J boat but faster than my buddy's Catalina 22 (we sail it together at least once per week and I really enjoy it also). In all, the 26S is a great boat with great capabilities without costing a fortune.
I can see it either way
On the one hand I like the idea that if it fills up you aren't going to only see the tip of your mast in your slip. On the other, you are correct that it opens up storage space which could be useful. I realize there is a safety aspect that Roger Mac wanted to add to his boats. But let's look at who his target market has been year-after-year. New sailors or people moving up from dinghy's. It creates an image of not only being a great boat for the money, but also "safest boat on the market" because it won't sink and is "self-righting", which might be a fear of a newcomer to pocket crusiers/large day-sailors. It's a stroke of marketing genious if you ask me.
On the one hand I like the idea that if it fills up you aren't going to only see the tip of your mast in your slip. On the other, you are correct that it opens up storage space which could be useful. I realize there is a safety aspect that Roger Mac wanted to add to his boats. But let's look at who his target market has been year-after-year. New sailors or people moving up from dinghy's. It creates an image of not only being a great boat for the money, but also "safest boat on the market" because it won't sink and is "self-righting", which might be a fear of a newcomer to pocket crusiers/large day-sailors. It's a stroke of marketing genious if you ask me.
Mac is like the Boston Whaler
I agree, Boston Whaler's were marketed the same way in the 70's and 80's. Made alot of new boaters have confidence to actually try boating/sailing.
I agree, Boston Whaler's were marketed the same way in the 70's and 80's. Made alot of new boaters have confidence to actually try boating/sailing.
trailer to the coast
Luke, Being in Boise I suppose you would probably trailer to the "other' coast, but if your ever in SW Florida, look me up and we'll go sail a Mac26S in the Gulf or take her down to the Keys! It's lovely this time of year... (actually, the water is getting rather cold... the Gulf water id down around 70... brrr!). Ron
Luke, Being in Boise I suppose you would probably trailer to the "other' coast, but if your ever in SW Florida, look me up and we'll go sail a Mac26S in the Gulf or take her down to the Keys! It's lovely this time of year... (actually, the water is getting rather cold... the Gulf water id down around 70... brrr!). Ron
Hey Ron
If that last post is for me, my name is John Spurlock and I live in Boise. Thank you for the offer, you can imagine the water temp hereabouts, survival is measured in minutes. I really like living here but I do miss the ocean. I am working on a big project with Joel S of Idasailor to get a Lagina 26 ready for a trip to Loreto, Baja California. We're leaving in February and towing down through San Diego, the opposite side of the continent from you. What would get me to go over to your side is the boat I am looking for when I retire in a few years. If I have to go to Florida to bring it back to the West coast, I'll do so.
If that last post is for me, my name is John Spurlock and I live in Boise. Thank you for the offer, you can imagine the water temp hereabouts, survival is measured in minutes. I really like living here but I do miss the ocean. I am working on a big project with Joel S of Idasailor to get a Lagina 26 ready for a trip to Loreto, Baja California. We're leaving in February and towing down through San Diego, the opposite side of the continent from you. What would get me to go over to your side is the boat I am looking for when I retire in a few years. If I have to go to Florida to bring it back to the West coast, I'll do so.
about the video
I looked closely at the video, and it sure looks like the best case in most respects. look at the retrieval of the boat, it sure looks like some of the balast was blown. (notice the waterline). And the flooding at the dock, very controled to not roll, the dropping the mast at the bridge while underway... flat calm. pulling the mast over, cabin must be empty, balast intact... (ok thats pretty accurate) back to the floatation.... I think the best I can expect, if the boat were to get a hole and flood, is that the hull would not sink. I would expect it to roll over (turtle) but the bow would float, so we could hold on to the bow while waiting for rescue. an overturned boat is easier to spot than some people in PFD's, so thats good enough for me, and all I expect. I just hate to think some here may get the impression it would be like the video... so I make a compromise on the floation, removed some, added some back. but enough where I think it would not sink. YMMV.
I looked closely at the video, and it sure looks like the best case in most respects. look at the retrieval of the boat, it sure looks like some of the balast was blown. (notice the waterline). And the flooding at the dock, very controled to not roll, the dropping the mast at the bridge while underway... flat calm. pulling the mast over, cabin must be empty, balast intact... (ok thats pretty accurate) back to the floatation.... I think the best I can expect, if the boat were to get a hole and flood, is that the hull would not sink. I would expect it to roll over (turtle) but the bow would float, so we could hold on to the bow while waiting for rescue. an overturned boat is easier to spot than some people in PFD's, so thats good enough for me, and all I expect. I just hate to think some here may get the impression it would be like the video... so I make a compromise on the floation, removed some, added some back. but enough where I think it would not sink. YMMV.
Just one further consideration about turtles
Mr. Bill, It may be, in fact, true that the boat would turtle, however consider an experiment with me for just a moment. Let's rememeber that there is an incased 1400 lbs of water ballast in the bottom of the boat. Now, I know that that ballast water is no heavier than the water that presumably has flooded the boat, but consider this experiment. Let's forget about the Mac being a boat and let's talk about water bottles. Imagine an Evian bottle that the water has been emptied out and the cap replaced. When that bottle is placed in a tub of water, you can give it a horizontal spin and it will readily do so. Now let's imagine that we fill that same bottle with 1/2 to 3/4 volume with water and replace it in the tub. It now floats lower in the water, but still floats. Give it a horizontal spin and it still does so, albeit somewhat more sluggishly. Now, let's imagine we take that bottle; drain it and somehow attach to the side (on the inside) of the bottle a "balloon that we have filled with 5-8 ounces of water. Now refill 1/2 to 3/4 water and replace in the tub of water. It floats the same as before, but when we try to spin it, it only will turn until the trapped and attached water in the balloon starts to reach the surface level of the water. While below waterline, the "balloon" water would be the same weight as the surrounding h2o, but at waterline, it is heavier than the air it is now trying to rise into. What, pray tell, would encourage it to do so? If we move this thought back to the boat, it might be argued that the mast would draw the top down. ............How much does that mast weigh again? Was it listed as 35 lbs or 3500 lbs? I would certainly not argue for huge stability if a boat were flooded, but to turtle it, there would necessarily have to be an equal or greater weight affixed to the top to raise the weight of ballast (lead or otherwise) above the existant waterline. Another quick experiment would be to take a cylindrical piece of styrofoam. Carve out a small section in one side of it and tape a balloon of water in the carved out depression. Place it in the tub of water with the balloon at the top. Turn it loose. What happens? If our readers will notice, most of the styrofoam floatation is at or above deck level on a Mac. What does our experiment tell us about the propesities of the boat? I'm not trying to be a Mac protagonist in this little look. I think Abby Normal made a very estute observation in his last response about marketing genius. I just am a protagonist for logic and unemotional thought about any subject. I like my Mac, but it is because of what it does for my purposes. Is it perfect? Obviously not! Is it better than a Catalina or Hunter or Beneteau? That's not the point. Each have there advantages and each should be evaluated on their merits, not our prejudices about them. Some people deride "trailer sailors", but such a catagorie fits me just now and provides me with good sailing in a variety of places that many of them cannot enjoy because of limitations they face in getting to them. Sorry, I've digressed. Is'nt it interesting what we get into now that winter has curtailed our actual sailing?
Mr. Bill, It may be, in fact, true that the boat would turtle, however consider an experiment with me for just a moment. Let's rememeber that there is an incased 1400 lbs of water ballast in the bottom of the boat. Now, I know that that ballast water is no heavier than the water that presumably has flooded the boat, but consider this experiment. Let's forget about the Mac being a boat and let's talk about water bottles. Imagine an Evian bottle that the water has been emptied out and the cap replaced. When that bottle is placed in a tub of water, you can give it a horizontal spin and it will readily do so. Now let's imagine that we fill that same bottle with 1/2 to 3/4 volume with water and replace it in the tub. It now floats lower in the water, but still floats. Give it a horizontal spin and it still does so, albeit somewhat more sluggishly. Now, let's imagine we take that bottle; drain it and somehow attach to the side (on the inside) of the bottle a "balloon that we have filled with 5-8 ounces of water. Now refill 1/2 to 3/4 water and replace in the tub of water. It floats the same as before, but when we try to spin it, it only will turn until the trapped and attached water in the balloon starts to reach the surface level of the water. While below waterline, the "balloon" water would be the same weight as the surrounding h2o, but at waterline, it is heavier than the air it is now trying to rise into. What, pray tell, would encourage it to do so? If we move this thought back to the boat, it might be argued that the mast would draw the top down. ............How much does that mast weigh again? Was it listed as 35 lbs or 3500 lbs? I would certainly not argue for huge stability if a boat were flooded, but to turtle it, there would necessarily have to be an equal or greater weight affixed to the top to raise the weight of ballast (lead or otherwise) above the existant waterline. Another quick experiment would be to take a cylindrical piece of styrofoam. Carve out a small section in one side of it and tape a balloon of water in the carved out depression. Place it in the tub of water with the balloon at the top. Turn it loose. What happens? If our readers will notice, most of the styrofoam floatation is at or above deck level on a Mac. What does our experiment tell us about the propesities of the boat? I'm not trying to be a Mac protagonist in this little look. I think Abby Normal made a very estute observation in his last response about marketing genius. I just am a protagonist for logic and unemotional thought about any subject. I like my Mac, but it is because of what it does for my purposes. Is it perfect? Obviously not! Is it better than a Catalina or Hunter or Beneteau? That's not the point. Each have there advantages and each should be evaluated on their merits, not our prejudices about them. Some people deride "trailer sailors", but such a catagorie fits me just now and provides me with good sailing in a variety of places that many of them cannot enjoy because of limitations they face in getting to them. Sorry, I've digressed. Is'nt it interesting what we get into now that winter has curtailed our actual sailing?
Oil jugs
I don't know about the C. I have an X. Under the cabin floor are several areas near the ballast tank that are more or less voids. They are of little use as storage as they are difficult to get to and very small. I filled these voids with as many empty capped quart oil bottles as I could cram in there. Same way with under the rear berth. I figure they would help in the event they got wet. Being low they may increase the tendency to turn turtle, but, like the man said, 'an overturned hull is easier to spot and nice to hold on to.' I don't think they would promote bacteria growth if they got damp. I'm afraid foam might. They could provide enough lift to possibily break the thin liner floor, but that might be the least of the problems if it ever happened.
I don't know about the C. I have an X. Under the cabin floor are several areas near the ballast tank that are more or less voids. They are of little use as storage as they are difficult to get to and very small. I filled these voids with as many empty capped quart oil bottles as I could cram in there. Same way with under the rear berth. I figure they would help in the event they got wet. Being low they may increase the tendency to turn turtle, but, like the man said, 'an overturned hull is easier to spot and nice to hold on to.' I don't think they would promote bacteria growth if they got damp. I'm afraid foam might. They could provide enough lift to possibily break the thin liner floor, but that might be the least of the problems if it ever happened.
Don't remove it
My first sailboat was a Chrysler 16 with no ballast except for crew but it did have positive foam flotation. One hot afternoon of sailing I was hiking out and looking under the hull at the centerboard cutting through the water. The next thing I remember was the boat flipping over and I was in the water trying to keep my head above the water. The admiral was trapped under the sail and had to swim under the boat to come to the surface. The PFD's were in the forward part of the boat with the hatch open which quickly filled with water. As the mast filled with water the boat turned turtle and we were hanging onto the centerboard. As the air escaped from the centerboard well I thought this was not the the best time to test the flotation. Flash back to a early sail with a girl fiend in college whose father who owned a commercial fishing boat who pulled the boat we were sailing up in his nets from the bottom of the Puget Sound. I bet that PO wished he had Positive flotation. We attempted to do a self righting by standing on the hull and pulling on the centerboard but when the boat was upright the wind in the sail just rolled us over again. A passing power boat stopped to help and threw us a line which promptly got wrapped around it's propeller. I had to dive under the boat in two foot waves and cut the rope off the prop expecting the boat to knock me on the head or someone to engage the motor and cut my hand off. We managed to get what was left of the line tied to the boat and get towed back to the marina up-side down. Before getting into shallow water I jumped back in and released the fore-stay clevis pin which let the mast fold back and the boat now up right. My next boat was a Mac 25 for the reason of the positive flotation. With the weighted keel most of the flotation is stored low in the boat. My current boat is a Mac 26 M and like the other 26 C,D and X's water ballasted boats, the flotation is placed higher up, over the fore berth, above the center board trunk and above the rear berth. This seems to be the best place to keep the boat up right if the hull were to fill with water. If anything, I would add more flotation as I added more weight, extra batteries, bigger motor, etc. I am currently thinking of putting my wine cork collection in the bilge for extra insurance. Or maybe making some wine cork PFD's. I now either wear a PFD or sit on one within arms reach, they are not stored in the forward compartment.
My first sailboat was a Chrysler 16 with no ballast except for crew but it did have positive foam flotation. One hot afternoon of sailing I was hiking out and looking under the hull at the centerboard cutting through the water. The next thing I remember was the boat flipping over and I was in the water trying to keep my head above the water. The admiral was trapped under the sail and had to swim under the boat to come to the surface. The PFD's were in the forward part of the boat with the hatch open which quickly filled with water. As the mast filled with water the boat turned turtle and we were hanging onto the centerboard. As the air escaped from the centerboard well I thought this was not the the best time to test the flotation. Flash back to a early sail with a girl fiend in college whose father who owned a commercial fishing boat who pulled the boat we were sailing up in his nets from the bottom of the Puget Sound. I bet that PO wished he had Positive flotation. We attempted to do a self righting by standing on the hull and pulling on the centerboard but when the boat was upright the wind in the sail just rolled us over again. A passing power boat stopped to help and threw us a line which promptly got wrapped around it's propeller. I had to dive under the boat in two foot waves and cut the rope off the prop expecting the boat to knock me on the head or someone to engage the motor and cut my hand off. We managed to get what was left of the line tied to the boat and get towed back to the marina up-side down. Before getting into shallow water I jumped back in and released the fore-stay clevis pin which let the mast fold back and the boat now up right. My next boat was a Mac 25 for the reason of the positive flotation. With the weighted keel most of the flotation is stored low in the boat. My current boat is a Mac 26 M and like the other 26 C,D and X's water ballasted boats, the flotation is placed higher up, over the fore berth, above the center board trunk and above the rear berth. This seems to be the best place to keep the boat up right if the hull were to fill with water. If anything, I would add more flotation as I added more weight, extra batteries, bigger motor, etc. I am currently thinking of putting my wine cork collection in the bilge for extra insurance. Or maybe making some wine cork PFD's. I now either wear a PFD or sit on one within arms reach, they are not stored in the forward compartment.
Larry, good point!
so it may float upright after all... (or not at all) In my mind, I only want the boat to float, and don't really care how she sits as long as she floats... I added (hopefully) enought back after installing a V berth cooler... and wow, steve... harry story!
so it may float upright after all... (or not at all) In my mind, I only want the boat to float, and don't really care how she sits as long as she floats... I added (hopefully) enought back after installing a V berth cooler... and wow, steve... harry story!
Stability and Floatation
Adding floatation high in the boat reduces it's capsized stability, this means she will stay turtle for less time or will be more self righting. As to trying to right a boat that is turtle (especially a sail boat) put the bow into the wind first. The more balast and the lower the balast (when right side up) the less stable the boat will be when turtle. Floatation placed (and secured) low in the boat will allow her to ride higher in the water when swamped. You do want to get the gunwhales above the water line, when swamped if you want any hope of pumping her out. So you need a combination of both low flotation and high flotation. The floatation mounted high in the boat will help her right it's self and the floatation mounted low in the boat will displace hopefully enough water to get her gunwhales above water line to allow pumping her out. Ther are many other design factors that add to or reduce a boats inverted stability. Like beam, displacement, CG, CB, high cabin, low balast. Even if she has foam in the mast or not. The ideal boat would have a very high initial stability, a very high diverted stability, still be light weight, and have a very low inverted stability. Capsize ratio tries to give you an easy to calculte figure to compare boats, but does not take all the variables into account. If it did it wouldn't be an easy ratio to calculate.
Adding floatation high in the boat reduces it's capsized stability, this means she will stay turtle for less time or will be more self righting. As to trying to right a boat that is turtle (especially a sail boat) put the bow into the wind first. The more balast and the lower the balast (when right side up) the less stable the boat will be when turtle. Floatation placed (and secured) low in the boat will allow her to ride higher in the water when swamped. You do want to get the gunwhales above the water line, when swamped if you want any hope of pumping her out. So you need a combination of both low flotation and high flotation. The floatation mounted high in the boat will help her right it's self and the floatation mounted low in the boat will displace hopefully enough water to get her gunwhales above water line to allow pumping her out. Ther are many other design factors that add to or reduce a boats inverted stability. Like beam, displacement, CG, CB, high cabin, low balast. Even if she has foam in the mast or not. The ideal boat would have a very high initial stability, a very high diverted stability, still be light weight, and have a very low inverted stability. Capsize ratio tries to give you an easy to calculte figure to compare boats, but does not take all the variables into account. If it did it wouldn't be an easy ratio to calculate.
Boat saving inflatable device.
I forgot who makes it, but I remember a company making an inflatable device for sinking ships (bet its expen$ive). A good cheap alternative would be inflating an airbed in the main birth and maybe a small one in the the V birth. It may sound unorthodox right now, but I bet it would help in a capsize. Would only takes a few minutes to inflate.
I forgot who makes it, but I remember a company making an inflatable device for sinking ships (bet its expen$ive). A good cheap alternative would be inflating an airbed in the main birth and maybe a small one in the the V birth. It may sound unorthodox right now, but I bet it would help in a capsize. Would only takes a few minutes to inflate.
Noodle
I found, in our swimming junk, a swim noodle that would just fit inside our X mast. I removed the screws at the top and slipped it in to the forestay bolt. It weights nothing and I hope it will help in a turtle case, ;-(
I found, in our swimming junk, a swim noodle that would just fit inside our X mast. I removed the screws at the top and slipped it in to the forestay bolt. It weights nothing and I hope it will help in a turtle case, ;-(
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