My new-to-me boat comes with 150 and 110 MYLAR genoas, which I've never used. I was reading that they should be flaked rather than stuffed 'cause the creases damage the fabric. I'm trying to think of how I'm going to do that with a 36 x 17 ft sail out on the end of a concrete dock, or on the bow of my boat when I'm out cruising. (Yeah I know, get a furler. Not in this year's budget, at least not without a divorce.) How do you all deal with this? Tom Monroe s/v Different Drummer Carlyle Lake
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What I do...
I have good old fashioned hanked on head sails as well. Our boat is only 25 ft LOA so my sails are not too huge. When we douse the sails I arrange the luff so that it makes a nice "S" pattern on the forestay. I then pull out the clew and lay it on the side deck/cabin top. I flake it in big layers just like I do the main. After it is relatively arranged I un-hank the sail and roll it from the luff towards the leech/clew end. Ens up being a big roll but it works for us. David S/V Cindino
I have good old fashioned hanked on head sails as well. Our boat is only 25 ft LOA so my sails are not too huge. When we douse the sails I arrange the luff so that it makes a nice "S" pattern on the forestay. I then pull out the clew and lay it on the side deck/cabin top. I flake it in big layers just like I do the main. After it is relatively arranged I un-hank the sail and roll it from the luff towards the leech/clew end. Ens up being a big roll but it works for us. David S/V Cindino
Tom, go with the divorce.
we're talking SAILING here, man! Get a hold of yourself! Have you gone daft?
we're talking SAILING here, man! Get a hold of yourself! Have you gone daft?
Fortunately I have a full crew...
... so I never have to touch the sails, but David is right. Ease the halyard and flake the luff of the headsail just like you do the main. Then working from the clew, pull the folds in by pulling back on the leach. Roll the sail from clew to tack and then unhank. A single sail tie and into the bag! You can also just drop the sail and tie it to the toerail until you make dock. At the dock, pull the entire length of the foot onto the dock with the bulk of the jib on the boat. Flake the sail on the dock while your wife feeds you the sail from the foredeck. Take good care of your sails. I cringe when I watch how some poeple treat them. They're not cheap and proper care will help them to last longer.
... so I never have to touch the sails, but David is right. Ease the halyard and flake the luff of the headsail just like you do the main. Then working from the clew, pull the folds in by pulling back on the leach. Roll the sail from clew to tack and then unhank. A single sail tie and into the bag! You can also just drop the sail and tie it to the toerail until you make dock. At the dock, pull the entire length of the foot onto the dock with the bulk of the jib on the boat. Flake the sail on the dock while your wife feeds you the sail from the foredeck. Take good care of your sails. I cringe when I watch how some poeple treat them. They're not cheap and proper care will help them to last longer.
Genoa Flaking
I sail often single handed or double handed with my 16 yrold son and so being able to lower the sails easily is important. For both Main and Genoa using the halyard to lower the sail in a controlled way and flaking the main and genoa as you lower ensures a neater stow and is actually much less effort than other methods. To do this the boat should be pointing (almost) into the wind so the sail will fall naturally on the boom or deck. begin by stretching the sail taut along the foot by pulling on the clew. Lower one fold, neaten the fold and lower another fold neaten the fold and continue until the sal is flaked. This easier with two but doable with one. For the main ensure each fold hangs a foot to 18 inches on each side of the boom. Otherwise the sail will tend to slide off the boom when half way done. Cleat halyard and tied off at 1/3 and 2/3 lowered to prevent sial from failing off the boom. With genoa, as long as sail is flat don't be shy to put a foot on the sail to hold it stable while lowering. If you have to walk along the sail to induce a fold take the halyard with you so you can lower as needed. If you lower in a hurry (typically on windier days) then as soon as you arrive in a quiet anchorage or area rehoist and lower as described above. At first this will be difficult but with practice you'll gain proficiency and in self satisfaction as learning a short handed skill. With a 150% genoa the angle on the luff will make the last few folds messy and require removing from the luff groove and halyard to neaten the last folds. After flaking then bring tack to clew and if another fold is needed middle to tack and clew and put in sail bag so tack and clew are near the bag's opening. If you're flaking the genoa temporary use a line to parcel genoa to a life line so it stays securely on deck. Never step on a fold so as to put a crease in the mylar. Avoid pulling on the sail near any chafe points as this can easily tear mylar. If you choose to flake on the dock over the lifelines on the bow lift do not pull the sail over the stanchions since the mylar may catch and any weak point can then tear. Be very careful not to drag the sail on concrete since this can chafe damage the sail very quickly. I've sailed with 10 year old kevlar mylar sails with both good success and amazingly disasterous results. Do not back wind mylar sails unless they have substantial spreader chafe patches. Mylar had excellent tensile strength and low stretch but poor shear strength so any point loads will easily tear the material. With practice you'll learn how care for your mylar sails and they will last a reasonable length or time. Careless practices will be rewarded with nearly immediate feedback causing immediate pain to the wallet area. Just remember, "Sailmakers gotta eat."
I sail often single handed or double handed with my 16 yrold son and so being able to lower the sails easily is important. For both Main and Genoa using the halyard to lower the sail in a controlled way and flaking the main and genoa as you lower ensures a neater stow and is actually much less effort than other methods. To do this the boat should be pointing (almost) into the wind so the sail will fall naturally on the boom or deck. begin by stretching the sail taut along the foot by pulling on the clew. Lower one fold, neaten the fold and lower another fold neaten the fold and continue until the sal is flaked. This easier with two but doable with one. For the main ensure each fold hangs a foot to 18 inches on each side of the boom. Otherwise the sail will tend to slide off the boom when half way done. Cleat halyard and tied off at 1/3 and 2/3 lowered to prevent sial from failing off the boom. With genoa, as long as sail is flat don't be shy to put a foot on the sail to hold it stable while lowering. If you have to walk along the sail to induce a fold take the halyard with you so you can lower as needed. If you lower in a hurry (typically on windier days) then as soon as you arrive in a quiet anchorage or area rehoist and lower as described above. At first this will be difficult but with practice you'll gain proficiency and in self satisfaction as learning a short handed skill. With a 150% genoa the angle on the luff will make the last few folds messy and require removing from the luff groove and halyard to neaten the last folds. After flaking then bring tack to clew and if another fold is needed middle to tack and clew and put in sail bag so tack and clew are near the bag's opening. If you're flaking the genoa temporary use a line to parcel genoa to a life line so it stays securely on deck. Never step on a fold so as to put a crease in the mylar. Avoid pulling on the sail near any chafe points as this can easily tear mylar. If you choose to flake on the dock over the lifelines on the bow lift do not pull the sail over the stanchions since the mylar may catch and any weak point can then tear. Be very careful not to drag the sail on concrete since this can chafe damage the sail very quickly. I've sailed with 10 year old kevlar mylar sails with both good success and amazingly disasterous results. Do not back wind mylar sails unless they have substantial spreader chafe patches. Mylar had excellent tensile strength and low stretch but poor shear strength so any point loads will easily tear the material. With practice you'll learn how care for your mylar sails and they will last a reasonable length or time. Careless practices will be rewarded with nearly immediate feedback causing immediate pain to the wallet area. Just remember, "Sailmakers gotta eat."
Genoa Flaking
I sail often single handed or double handed, with my 16 yr old son, so being able to lower the sails easily is important. For both Main and Genoa using the halyard to lower the sail in a controlled way and flaking the main and genoa as you lower ensures a neater stow and is actually much less effort than other methods. To do this the boat should be pointing (almost) into the wind so the sail will fall naturally on the boom or deck. Begin by stretching the sail taut along the foot by pulling on the clew. Lower one fold, neaten the fold and lower another fold neaten the fold and continue until the sal is flaked. This easier with two but doable with one. For the main ensure each fold hangs a foot to 18 inches on each side of the boom. Otherwise the sail will tend to slide off the boom when half way done. Cleat halyard and tie off at 1/3 and 2/3 lowered, with sail tie, to prevent sail from failing off the boom. With genoa, as long as sail is flat don't be shy to put a foot on the sail to hold it stable while lowering. If you have to walk beside the sail to induce a fold keep the halyard in one hand so you can lower as needed. If you lower in a hurry (typically on windier days) then as soon as you arrive in a quiet anchorage or area rehoist and lower as described above. At first this will be difficult but with practice you'll gain in proficiency and in satisfaction at learning a short handed skill. The angle on the luff will make the last few folds messy and require removing from the luff groove and halyard to neaten the last folds. After flaking, bring tack to clew and if another fold is needed bring the middle to the tack and clew and put in sail bag so tack and clew are near the bag's opening. If you're flaking the genoa temporarily use a spare line to parcel genoa to a life line so it stays securely on deck. Never step on a fold so as to put a crease in the mylar. Avoid pulling on the sail near any chafe points as this can easily tear mylar. If you choose to flake on the dock over the lifelines on the bow lift do not pull the sail over the stanchions since the mylar may catch and any weak point can then tear. Be very careful not to drag the sail on concrete since this can chafe damage the sail very quickly. I've sailed with 10 year old kevlar mylar sails with both good success and amazingly disasterous results. Do not back wind mylar sails unless they have substantial spreader chafe patches. Mylar had excellent tensile strength and low stretch but poor shear strength so any point loads will easily tear the material. With practice you'll learn how care for your mylar sails and they will last a reasonable length or time. Careless practices will be rewarded with nearly immediate feedback causing immediate pain to the wallet area. Just remember, "Sailmakers gotta eat."
I sail often single handed or double handed, with my 16 yr old son, so being able to lower the sails easily is important. For both Main and Genoa using the halyard to lower the sail in a controlled way and flaking the main and genoa as you lower ensures a neater stow and is actually much less effort than other methods. To do this the boat should be pointing (almost) into the wind so the sail will fall naturally on the boom or deck. Begin by stretching the sail taut along the foot by pulling on the clew. Lower one fold, neaten the fold and lower another fold neaten the fold and continue until the sal is flaked. This easier with two but doable with one. For the main ensure each fold hangs a foot to 18 inches on each side of the boom. Otherwise the sail will tend to slide off the boom when half way done. Cleat halyard and tie off at 1/3 and 2/3 lowered, with sail tie, to prevent sail from failing off the boom. With genoa, as long as sail is flat don't be shy to put a foot on the sail to hold it stable while lowering. If you have to walk beside the sail to induce a fold keep the halyard in one hand so you can lower as needed. If you lower in a hurry (typically on windier days) then as soon as you arrive in a quiet anchorage or area rehoist and lower as described above. At first this will be difficult but with practice you'll gain in proficiency and in satisfaction at learning a short handed skill. The angle on the luff will make the last few folds messy and require removing from the luff groove and halyard to neaten the last folds. After flaking, bring tack to clew and if another fold is needed bring the middle to the tack and clew and put in sail bag so tack and clew are near the bag's opening. If you're flaking the genoa temporarily use a spare line to parcel genoa to a life line so it stays securely on deck. Never step on a fold so as to put a crease in the mylar. Avoid pulling on the sail near any chafe points as this can easily tear mylar. If you choose to flake on the dock over the lifelines on the bow lift do not pull the sail over the stanchions since the mylar may catch and any weak point can then tear. Be very careful not to drag the sail on concrete since this can chafe damage the sail very quickly. I've sailed with 10 year old kevlar mylar sails with both good success and amazingly disasterous results. Do not back wind mylar sails unless they have substantial spreader chafe patches. Mylar had excellent tensile strength and low stretch but poor shear strength so any point loads will easily tear the material. With practice you'll learn how care for your mylar sails and they will last a reasonable length or time. Careless practices will be rewarded with nearly immediate feedback causing immediate pain to the wallet area. Just remember, "Sailmakers gotta eat."
Mylar Sail Care
A typical Mylar racing sail will last years if well cared for. When I bought my first 3.2 oz mylar 155% Genoa in 1986 , the sailmaker guessed at a 5 year useful life. That sail was flaked and folder in thirds into a'turtle bag' every time and lasted 15 years. Yes, at the end the mylar was literally delaminating but the shape was still reasonable and she was somehow still adequate foe winning light air races. What some are suggesting as to folding these sails on deck may not work as easily if they have luff tapes and not hanks. With luff tapes you will unfortunately need someone on the bow to roughly hand over hand flake the luff into 24-30" flakes, then if you like, roll it up against the rail in a tighter bundle. I have 1/8" line tied in multiple triangle patterns laced between the toe rail & 1st and 2nd lifelines to keep the sails from sliding overboard. I use shock cord webbing with plastic hooks to wrap around the sail when it's flaked on deck. At the end of a weekend I take the sail out on a lawn and do a good job of flaking and folding (in thirds) to put it back in it'd turtle bag and stow it in the sail locker. Avoid flaking the sails in exactly the same place each time . Vary the fold widths just a couple inches will avoid creating noticeable folds. If in doubt about your flaking, folding technique, just ask any good sailmaker or racer for advice.
A typical Mylar racing sail will last years if well cared for. When I bought my first 3.2 oz mylar 155% Genoa in 1986 , the sailmaker guessed at a 5 year useful life. That sail was flaked and folder in thirds into a'turtle bag' every time and lasted 15 years. Yes, at the end the mylar was literally delaminating but the shape was still reasonable and she was somehow still adequate foe winning light air races. What some are suggesting as to folding these sails on deck may not work as easily if they have luff tapes and not hanks. With luff tapes you will unfortunately need someone on the bow to roughly hand over hand flake the luff into 24-30" flakes, then if you like, roll it up against the rail in a tighter bundle. I have 1/8" line tied in multiple triangle patterns laced between the toe rail & 1st and 2nd lifelines to keep the sails from sliding overboard. I use shock cord webbing with plastic hooks to wrap around the sail when it's flaked on deck. At the end of a weekend I take the sail out on a lawn and do a good job of flaking and folding (in thirds) to put it back in it'd turtle bag and stow it in the sail locker. Avoid flaking the sails in exactly the same place each time . Vary the fold widths just a couple inches will avoid creating noticeable folds. If in doubt about your flaking, folding technique, just ask any good sailmaker or racer for advice.
Thanks. This will be ...
... difficult to do single handed, I think. I'm going to try the various methods that leave the sail hanked on. Can't use anything that has to do with the dock. It's very roughened concrete and would be WAY too abrasive. (Jayne lost 1/4" of her big toe on it last year! I keep telling people, STEP, not jump, onto the dock!) For a weekend out, or daysailing for a weekend out of the marina, can I leave it hanked on with sheets attached, and kind of flak it down along the toe rail, throw a couple of loose sail ties around it, and leave it ready to go? I'm concerned because this is a really nice sail, and it will be the only big headsail I have in this year's budget, and I'd like it to last a long time. Thanks, Tom
... difficult to do single handed, I think. I'm going to try the various methods that leave the sail hanked on. Can't use anything that has to do with the dock. It's very roughened concrete and would be WAY too abrasive. (Jayne lost 1/4" of her big toe on it last year! I keep telling people, STEP, not jump, onto the dock!) For a weekend out, or daysailing for a weekend out of the marina, can I leave it hanked on with sheets attached, and kind of flak it down along the toe rail, throw a couple of loose sail ties around it, and leave it ready to go? I'm concerned because this is a really nice sail, and it will be the only big headsail I have in this year's budget, and I'd like it to last a long time. Thanks, Tom
Why flake?
I know nothing about Mylar; perhaps someone has done some studies on it to give us the "truth." However, NO ONE knows how best to flake a sail. There is all this talk about the need to flake to avoid the wrinkles that will damage the sail. If a sail is stowed, it has to be "wrinkled" no matter how one stows it. If the sail is flaked the wrinkle always go in the same place. If a sail is stuffed the wrinkles go in at random. At random means a different place each time. If you want a set of lines in your sail subjected to repeated stress everytime you stow the sail flake it. If you want if you want small wrinkles that may repeat every 10th time you stow the sail and have no straight line of weakness stuff it. Whatever you do, remember all the sail makers and all the expert sailors that give "absolute" knowledge have obtained their knowledge word of mouth. There are no studies that show one way better than the other. The bottom line is; use common sense. It's what sailors do best. Geoff
I know nothing about Mylar; perhaps someone has done some studies on it to give us the "truth." However, NO ONE knows how best to flake a sail. There is all this talk about the need to flake to avoid the wrinkles that will damage the sail. If a sail is stowed, it has to be "wrinkled" no matter how one stows it. If the sail is flaked the wrinkle always go in the same place. If a sail is stuffed the wrinkles go in at random. At random means a different place each time. If you want a set of lines in your sail subjected to repeated stress everytime you stow the sail flake it. If you want if you want small wrinkles that may repeat every 10th time you stow the sail and have no straight line of weakness stuff it. Whatever you do, remember all the sail makers and all the expert sailors that give "absolute" knowledge have obtained their knowledge word of mouth. There are no studies that show one way better than the other. The bottom line is; use common sense. It's what sailors do best. Geoff
Correct, You Know Nothing About Mylar!
It is well known that there are better ways to treat and stow your sails than "Stuffing" them. Even Dacron Sails should not be Stuffed! Ideally sails should be rolled when not in use, to avoid ANY folds. However this is not very practical on most cruising boats. Most racing boats WILL roll their mainsail when done, but will flake their headsails into long turtles so they are easier to access and ready to go should a sail change be necessary. Basically, the less folds or wrinkles the better. When it comes to Mylar, or any plastic including Dacron, repeated folds in the exact same place, time after time, will weaken the material. But, trying to fold a sail identically each time after use is virtually impossible. Care should be taken with any sail to avoid undo abuse, such as stuffing, walking upon, or flogging. These things are much more abusive than flaking. When You flake, use as large a flake as possible and practical for your boat, roll after flaking and stow in a sail bag.
It is well known that there are better ways to treat and stow your sails than "Stuffing" them. Even Dacron Sails should not be Stuffed! Ideally sails should be rolled when not in use, to avoid ANY folds. However this is not very practical on most cruising boats. Most racing boats WILL roll their mainsail when done, but will flake their headsails into long turtles so they are easier to access and ready to go should a sail change be necessary. Basically, the less folds or wrinkles the better. When it comes to Mylar, or any plastic including Dacron, repeated folds in the exact same place, time after time, will weaken the material. But, trying to fold a sail identically each time after use is virtually impossible. Care should be taken with any sail to avoid undo abuse, such as stuffing, walking upon, or flogging. These things are much more abusive than flaking. When You flake, use as large a flake as possible and practical for your boat, roll after flaking and stow in a sail bag.
long turtles
Flake over the boom into long turtles. What damages a laminated sail is rolling/folding it after it's been flaked. You can roll or you can flake, but avoid rolling/folding after you flake.
Flake over the boom into long turtles. What damages a laminated sail is rolling/folding it after it's been flaked. You can roll or you can flake, but avoid rolling/folding after you flake.
Turtles
I Concur with John, Turtles are the way to go if you have room to store a rolled or flaked sail that is LP Length. Unfortunately, Cruising boats don't always have the luxury of space.
I Concur with John, Turtles are the way to go if you have room to store a rolled or flaked sail that is LP Length. Unfortunately, Cruising boats don't always have the luxury of space.
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