I've done a fair amount of research on the proper way to fly the national ensign. What I can not find is documentation on flying the flag from the backstay. I have found that 2/3 of the way up the mainsail leach on a marconi rig is OK. This requires the flag to be sewn to the leach. Not what I'm looking for. Any documentation would be appreciated.
Flag etiquette
- Thread starter hicotton
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Do not think that it is proper!
I checked in Chapmans and it makes no mention of flying it from the backstay! I would assume that this is NOT proper. Anything wrong with a staff?
I checked in Chapmans and it makes no mention of flying it from the backstay! I would assume that this is NOT proper. Anything wrong with a staff?
Re-read your Chapman's
Chapman's, pg. 852: "Flying Various Flags" "On Marconi-rigged sailboats under sail alone, the practice for many years has been to fly the ensign from the leech of the aftermost sail, approximately two-thirds the length of the leech above the clew." I have a yawl, and I fly the flag from the boom topping lift on the mizzen. I don't think actually sewing the flag onto the sail is a great idea, perhaps you can run it up the spare halyard, or rig up a light signal halyard off of a block at the masthead. Also mentioned: the "fly" (length) of the flag should be one inch for every foot of the boat.
Chapman's, pg. 852: "Flying Various Flags" "On Marconi-rigged sailboats under sail alone, the practice for many years has been to fly the ensign from the leech of the aftermost sail, approximately two-thirds the length of the leech above the clew." I have a yawl, and I fly the flag from the boom topping lift on the mizzen. I don't think actually sewing the flag onto the sail is a great idea, perhaps you can run it up the spare halyard, or rig up a light signal halyard off of a block at the masthead. Also mentioned: the "fly" (length) of the flag should be one inch for every foot of the boat.
Backstay flag halyard
A US flag (or Ensign) staff should be mounted as close to center on the transom as possible, or, just starboard of center. On some boats a flag staff is sometimes in the way and can interrupt the safe operation so many sailors choose to fly the flag on a backstay. Although this is not absolutely correct this location is usually acceptable - I've seen it on numerous vessels and flown flags on boats this way before. A halyard kit is available (made by Johnson) for just such a purpose. I'd be surprised if you got flak from anyone for flying the US flag in such a manner. Best, Trevor
A US flag (or Ensign) staff should be mounted as close to center on the transom as possible, or, just starboard of center. On some boats a flag staff is sometimes in the way and can interrupt the safe operation so many sailors choose to fly the flag on a backstay. Although this is not absolutely correct this location is usually acceptable - I've seen it on numerous vessels and flown flags on boats this way before. A halyard kit is available (made by Johnson) for just such a purpose. I'd be surprised if you got flak from anyone for flying the US flag in such a manner. Best, Trevor
Re-read your Chapman's
Chapman's, pg. 852: "Flying Various Flags" "On Marconi-rigged sailboats under sail alone, the practice for many years has been to fly the ensign from the leech of the aftermost sail, approximately two-thirds the length of the leech above the clew." I have a yawl, and I fly the flag from the boom topping lift on the mizzen. I took the attached photo in Annapolis, with my friend Andreas on deck. I don't think actually sewing the flag onto the sail is a great idea, perhaps you can run it up the spare halyard, or rig up a light signal halyard off of a block at the masthead. Also mentioned: the "fly" (length) of the flag should be one inch for every foot of the boat.
Chapman's, pg. 852: "Flying Various Flags" "On Marconi-rigged sailboats under sail alone, the practice for many years has been to fly the ensign from the leech of the aftermost sail, approximately two-thirds the length of the leech above the clew." I have a yawl, and I fly the flag from the boom topping lift on the mizzen. I took the attached photo in Annapolis, with my friend Andreas on deck. I don't think actually sewing the flag onto the sail is a great idea, perhaps you can run it up the spare halyard, or rig up a light signal halyard off of a block at the masthead. Also mentioned: the "fly" (length) of the flag should be one inch for every foot of the boat.
History
When everyone had a gaff rig, the proper place to fly the ensign used to be at the peak of the gaff. When the marconi rig supplanted the gaff rig, the "right place" -about where the peak of a gaff would be - was about 2/3 of the way up the leech of the sail. To have the flag there, it had to be sewn on, since rigging a halyard would have led to massive sail chafe and problems with the boom, to say nothing of trying to figure out how tight to rig it, and having to change the halyard tension every time you changed heading. Very simply, people responded to this by not flying the flag while under sail. It messed up the sail (especially with the synthetics, poking holes in the leech) and messed up what people considered proper flag-handling at colors. Under power, using a staff at the transom was deemed proper, but I remember always striking the flagstaff once sails were hoisted. I believe the Coast Guard solved the issue about 15 or 20 years ago by saying it was permitted practice while sailing to display the flag on its staff . Newer editions of Chapman's - such as the 1991 edition I have - include this information. This said, I do remember observing an American Destroyer positioning itself in the Hudson River off New York City for OpSail 2000. They steamed slowly (3 knots) upriver, and I noticed a small ensign flying from a small gaff on their main signal/radar mast, aft of the bridge. Bosun's whistles piped over the intercom, the anchor was dropped, and the flag at the gaff dissapeared while at the same moment a large ensign was hoisted on a transom staff. A minute later it appeared the skipper wasn't happy with the set. More intercom noises, anchor chain clanking, grunting and smoke from the engines, the large ensign dissapeared and the small one at the gaff was flying again. Twenty seconds later, anchor down again, back the other way with the flags. I guess the Navy likes it's traditions. It would seem that the current rule is: If you've got one, use a gaff. If you don't, use a staff!
When everyone had a gaff rig, the proper place to fly the ensign used to be at the peak of the gaff. When the marconi rig supplanted the gaff rig, the "right place" -about where the peak of a gaff would be - was about 2/3 of the way up the leech of the sail. To have the flag there, it had to be sewn on, since rigging a halyard would have led to massive sail chafe and problems with the boom, to say nothing of trying to figure out how tight to rig it, and having to change the halyard tension every time you changed heading. Very simply, people responded to this by not flying the flag while under sail. It messed up the sail (especially with the synthetics, poking holes in the leech) and messed up what people considered proper flag-handling at colors. Under power, using a staff at the transom was deemed proper, but I remember always striking the flagstaff once sails were hoisted. I believe the Coast Guard solved the issue about 15 or 20 years ago by saying it was permitted practice while sailing to display the flag on its staff . Newer editions of Chapman's - such as the 1991 edition I have - include this information. This said, I do remember observing an American Destroyer positioning itself in the Hudson River off New York City for OpSail 2000. They steamed slowly (3 knots) upriver, and I noticed a small ensign flying from a small gaff on their main signal/radar mast, aft of the bridge. Bosun's whistles piped over the intercom, the anchor was dropped, and the flag at the gaff dissapeared while at the same moment a large ensign was hoisted on a transom staff. A minute later it appeared the skipper wasn't happy with the set. More intercom noises, anchor chain clanking, grunting and smoke from the engines, the large ensign dissapeared and the small one at the gaff was flying again. Twenty seconds later, anchor down again, back the other way with the flags. I guess the Navy likes it's traditions. It would seem that the current rule is: If you've got one, use a gaff. If you don't, use a staff!
Flag guessing
My impression is that flying the ensign 2/3 up the leach on a Marconi or near the gaff is the correct position and its not as important what it is mounted on; my other impression is that it is not proper when the sails are down. Then, a flagstaff on the transom is the only place for it. (I seem to remember seeing it flying from a flag halyard to the gaff on old paintings of frigates, instead of being sewn on. The practice of flying false colors would have been pretty hard if sewn on.) Actually what Paulk says sounds like the current accepted practice.
My impression is that flying the ensign 2/3 up the leach on a Marconi or near the gaff is the correct position and its not as important what it is mounted on; my other impression is that it is not proper when the sails are down. Then, a flagstaff on the transom is the only place for it. (I seem to remember seeing it flying from a flag halyard to the gaff on old paintings of frigates, instead of being sewn on. The practice of flying false colors would have been pretty hard if sewn on.) Actually what Paulk says sounds like the current accepted practice.
Underway Colors
Back in my Navy days I was a member of the Navigation dept on Submarines. There were basicly three different types of "Colors". Underway, Inport, Holiday. Since I was onboard a Submarine were we flew these colors was how we were rigged. Underway, Inport or rigged for sea. Underway we flew a 3x5 ensign from a gaff attached to the top of the boats sail, The boat was 360'ft long. Inport on Non holidays we flew a 4x6 ensign from the Furthest staff rigged aft. (This could be a small gaff rigged on the back of the sub's sail). On Holidays including Sunday's we flew a 6X10 ensign. Basicly the rule of thumb was to fly the underway ensign from the Highest gaff while underway 24hrs a day, Inport from the furthest staff aft from 8am to Sunset. We only flew the ensign when we were on the Surface and rigged for surface operations.
Back in my Navy days I was a member of the Navigation dept on Submarines. There were basicly three different types of "Colors". Underway, Inport, Holiday. Since I was onboard a Submarine were we flew these colors was how we were rigged. Underway, Inport or rigged for sea. Underway we flew a 3x5 ensign from a gaff attached to the top of the boats sail, The boat was 360'ft long. Inport on Non holidays we flew a 4x6 ensign from the Furthest staff rigged aft. (This could be a small gaff rigged on the back of the sub's sail). On Holidays including Sunday's we flew a 6X10 ensign. Basicly the rule of thumb was to fly the underway ensign from the Highest gaff while underway 24hrs a day, Inport from the furthest staff aft from 8am to Sunset. We only flew the ensign when we were on the Surface and rigged for surface operations.
not quite etiquette but....
the johnsons halyard kit is quite heavy for a twenty two foot boat. i do fly my ensign from the topping lift. not quite proper but better than the spreader halyard. and if it comes to the spreader halyard i would rather see i flown there than not at all. next thread... how about the yacht club burgee??? top of the mast or bow staff???
the johnsons halyard kit is quite heavy for a twenty two foot boat. i do fly my ensign from the topping lift. not quite proper but better than the spreader halyard. and if it comes to the spreader halyard i would rather see i flown there than not at all. next thread... how about the yacht club burgee??? top of the mast or bow staff???
The ensign is only a signal....
About ten years ago, I did some extensive research as to how to fly the American Flag (ensign) and other types of flags (burgees, etc.,). I e-mailed the Library of Congress, called the office of one of my senator's staff, went to the local library and checked through numerous books and I included the 1917 edition of Chapmans. First and foremost, there are no laws as to how to fly the ensign on your boat or the American flag at your home. Congress recended all laws pertaining to displaying the American Flag. However, there are traditions that people like to follow--just remember they are traditions not rules or laws. A quick history of flag flying. During the golden age of sail flags were signals as to which country the ship came from, outward or homeward bound, who was on board, etc. Most countries flew it from the aft of the ship because it flew out in the breeze and could be seen from a distance. Place it anywheres else on a square rigger and it gets in way of the sail gear. However, Egytian boats flew their flags from the bow because their lanteen rigs swept the stern. When many boats went to fore and aft rigs (late 1800s) such as schooners and gaft rig sloops, the flag was placed at the aft end of the gaft on a pully so it could be raised and lowered. Burgees were raised to the top of the tallest mast on a "pig-stick" to show company, owner, home port, etc. At about the mid 1800s an interesting problem arises. Ports started taxing those work boats (some were still sail) to use the facilities but pleasure vessels were exempt. How to distinguse between the two? The nautical ensign (anchor in a circle of stars) was authorised by congress for pleasure craft only so that the tax collectors could tell working boats from pleasure craft. [I think I''ll change to the nautical ensign and see if it still works, right] Still, there were no rules for flying a flag. One flew it to let other boats know who you were or where you were from... During the early 1900s power boating started to become popular with the general public. Money was available to many families and they went out to buy these new fangled power boats. They literally flew the flag from anywheres on the boat for no sensible reasons. It was just fun. A new magazine at that time (Motor Boating) tried to make some sense of it all and Chapman who was the first editor of the magazine had a series of articles on how to make your "new" power boat look good including a section on flag flying. His suggestions came from the U.S. Navy regulations. He followed many of their regs and made them suggestions for the pleasure craft. In 1914, the then young assistant secretary of the Navy, FDR, asked Chapman if he would put together a publication to organize the pleasure craft fleet in case we went to war (WW I), Chapman did and came out with a little booklet called, "Practical Motor Boat Handling, Seamanship and Piloting." In my second edition is makes very little mention of sailboats other than to say, "stay out of their way." On the front page is also says, "...Adapted for the yachtsman interested in fitting himself to be of service to his Government in time of war." Damn, our first home security rulings... Chapter XIII was about Flags and Colors and tells about different flags. It offers some suggestions such as the Union Jack should never be flow while underway. It turns out that the Union Jack was the crews (read, paid crew) colors. There were also Guest Flags, Owner's Flag and Owner's Dinning Flag. Interesting to me was something called the "night pennant." No mention of when to fly it or where. As more and more electronics began to go to the top of the mast, burgees and owner flags migrated to the starboard side of the boat. Why starboard? Because most of the pleasure (both sail and power) docked with their port side to land or the dock. The Port of New York (I do not have good evidence on this point) wanted to see the signals and requested (required?) the flags on the starboard side. It does make some sense that when entering a harbor with boats along side a quey to be able to look at the signals and see who is on board and things like that. Over the years, Chapman's has become the "defacto" standard for flying flags and signals. But it is only suggestive, not a rule or law. You can fly your flag anywheres you want. But let's remember, it is a signal or a code to let others know some information about you. So where would you fly you ensign to be seen? Probably near or on the stern. One side or the other doesn't seem to be necessary and since many boats have a sugar scoop stern, flying the ensign in the center of the boat is out of the question. Flying it three quarters up the back stay is fine except at anchor when there is no wind and it droops around the back stay. That is why flag poles are angled out so that the flag can be seen when there is no wind. So it is your call. In some cases certain flags or signals have been out dated. You do not use the "Q" or quarantine pennant in some foreign countries anymore since they request you call them on VHF or the ship-to-shore phone. By the way, there are rules and regs for the US military however, they are only for the military. Pleasure craft need not follow them, indeed, the US Navy forbids you to lower your ensign in salute of their vessels. I still do it from time to time just to keep them on their toes. The Canadian Navy always responds--nice folk. I hope this helps with your decision making on the use of flags on your boat. You do not need any flags and you can use any size you want. The US Power Squadron which was the result of FDR's request to Chapman in 1917 has good advice. My best to you all.
About ten years ago, I did some extensive research as to how to fly the American Flag (ensign) and other types of flags (burgees, etc.,). I e-mailed the Library of Congress, called the office of one of my senator's staff, went to the local library and checked through numerous books and I included the 1917 edition of Chapmans. First and foremost, there are no laws as to how to fly the ensign on your boat or the American flag at your home. Congress recended all laws pertaining to displaying the American Flag. However, there are traditions that people like to follow--just remember they are traditions not rules or laws. A quick history of flag flying. During the golden age of sail flags were signals as to which country the ship came from, outward or homeward bound, who was on board, etc. Most countries flew it from the aft of the ship because it flew out in the breeze and could be seen from a distance. Place it anywheres else on a square rigger and it gets in way of the sail gear. However, Egytian boats flew their flags from the bow because their lanteen rigs swept the stern. When many boats went to fore and aft rigs (late 1800s) such as schooners and gaft rig sloops, the flag was placed at the aft end of the gaft on a pully so it could be raised and lowered. Burgees were raised to the top of the tallest mast on a "pig-stick" to show company, owner, home port, etc. At about the mid 1800s an interesting problem arises. Ports started taxing those work boats (some were still sail) to use the facilities but pleasure vessels were exempt. How to distinguse between the two? The nautical ensign (anchor in a circle of stars) was authorised by congress for pleasure craft only so that the tax collectors could tell working boats from pleasure craft. [I think I''ll change to the nautical ensign and see if it still works, right] Still, there were no rules for flying a flag. One flew it to let other boats know who you were or where you were from... During the early 1900s power boating started to become popular with the general public. Money was available to many families and they went out to buy these new fangled power boats. They literally flew the flag from anywheres on the boat for no sensible reasons. It was just fun. A new magazine at that time (Motor Boating) tried to make some sense of it all and Chapman who was the first editor of the magazine had a series of articles on how to make your "new" power boat look good including a section on flag flying. His suggestions came from the U.S. Navy regulations. He followed many of their regs and made them suggestions for the pleasure craft. In 1914, the then young assistant secretary of the Navy, FDR, asked Chapman if he would put together a publication to organize the pleasure craft fleet in case we went to war (WW I), Chapman did and came out with a little booklet called, "Practical Motor Boat Handling, Seamanship and Piloting." In my second edition is makes very little mention of sailboats other than to say, "stay out of their way." On the front page is also says, "...Adapted for the yachtsman interested in fitting himself to be of service to his Government in time of war." Damn, our first home security rulings... Chapter XIII was about Flags and Colors and tells about different flags. It offers some suggestions such as the Union Jack should never be flow while underway. It turns out that the Union Jack was the crews (read, paid crew) colors. There were also Guest Flags, Owner's Flag and Owner's Dinning Flag. Interesting to me was something called the "night pennant." No mention of when to fly it or where. As more and more electronics began to go to the top of the mast, burgees and owner flags migrated to the starboard side of the boat. Why starboard? Because most of the pleasure (both sail and power) docked with their port side to land or the dock. The Port of New York (I do not have good evidence on this point) wanted to see the signals and requested (required?) the flags on the starboard side. It does make some sense that when entering a harbor with boats along side a quey to be able to look at the signals and see who is on board and things like that. Over the years, Chapman's has become the "defacto" standard for flying flags and signals. But it is only suggestive, not a rule or law. You can fly your flag anywheres you want. But let's remember, it is a signal or a code to let others know some information about you. So where would you fly you ensign to be seen? Probably near or on the stern. One side or the other doesn't seem to be necessary and since many boats have a sugar scoop stern, flying the ensign in the center of the boat is out of the question. Flying it three quarters up the back stay is fine except at anchor when there is no wind and it droops around the back stay. That is why flag poles are angled out so that the flag can be seen when there is no wind. So it is your call. In some cases certain flags or signals have been out dated. You do not use the "Q" or quarantine pennant in some foreign countries anymore since they request you call them on VHF or the ship-to-shore phone. By the way, there are rules and regs for the US military however, they are only for the military. Pleasure craft need not follow them, indeed, the US Navy forbids you to lower your ensign in salute of their vessels. I still do it from time to time just to keep them on their toes. The Canadian Navy always responds--nice folk. I hope this helps with your decision making on the use of flags on your boat. You do not need any flags and you can use any size you want. The US Power Squadron which was the result of FDR's request to Chapman in 1917 has good advice. My best to you all.
Not quite right about no rules for flying the flag
I appreciate Les's wealth of research but want to expand on one little point about there being "no laws about how to fly the flag at your home". It may be literally true that they are not legally binding, but the US Marine Corps' manual for flag etiquette, which I've seen in several editions from the 60's through the 80's, is supposed to be the last word on how to handle the American flag. The Marine Corps was given by Congress the honor of being the keeper of these traditions and has published this little booklet for the benefit of civilian organizations such as the Boy Scouts, VFW, etc. over the years. The various rules of display, such as putting the national flag above state flags on a single pole, are expected to be followed by homeowners as well as any civilian facility. Can you be arrested for doing it wrong? Not yet...
I appreciate Les's wealth of research but want to expand on one little point about there being "no laws about how to fly the flag at your home". It may be literally true that they are not legally binding, but the US Marine Corps' manual for flag etiquette, which I've seen in several editions from the 60's through the 80's, is supposed to be the last word on how to handle the American flag. The Marine Corps was given by Congress the honor of being the keeper of these traditions and has published this little booklet for the benefit of civilian organizations such as the Boy Scouts, VFW, etc. over the years. The various rules of display, such as putting the national flag above state flags on a single pole, are expected to be followed by homeowners as well as any civilian facility. Can you be arrested for doing it wrong? Not yet...
Rich, Rick, et.al.
Rick, that is an interesting set of rules for flying the flag. I will have to look into this further. However, I believe what you have found are the military's rules and according to the Library of Congress (I"m sorry, I don't have those sources at hand) the military (probably the Marine Corp as Rich has advised) can only suggest to us civilians. The Veterans of Foreign Wars and the American Legion also have a set of rules or guidelines for flag etiquette. Personally, I follow the guidelines in the lastest Chapmans. I have great respect for Cornell University (they have a great music school as well as a law university) but I believe the Congress recended all laws pertainlng to the American Flag in the late 1980s. You can fly the flag anyway you wish. But having some respect for it seems to me to be the proper thing.
Rick, that is an interesting set of rules for flying the flag. I will have to look into this further. However, I believe what you have found are the military's rules and according to the Library of Congress (I"m sorry, I don't have those sources at hand) the military (probably the Marine Corp as Rich has advised) can only suggest to us civilians. The Veterans of Foreign Wars and the American Legion also have a set of rules or guidelines for flag etiquette. Personally, I follow the guidelines in the lastest Chapmans. I have great respect for Cornell University (they have a great music school as well as a law university) but I believe the Congress recended all laws pertainlng to the American Flag in the late 1980s. You can fly the flag anyway you wish. But having some respect for it seems to me to be the proper thing.
US Code
Seems to me the US Code is the law. Now I doubt there will be Federal Agents knocking on your door because you leave you flag up after dark and do not illuminate it properly. I see all sorts of violations of the code. I once dragged a stack of beach towels off the shelf and to the manager of a store because the design printed on the towel was the US flag. I don't mind much if the flag is flown from the wrong spot on a boat but throwing it on the beach and lying on top of it is very very wrong.
Seems to me the US Code is the law. Now I doubt there will be Federal Agents knocking on your door because you leave you flag up after dark and do not illuminate it properly. I see all sorts of violations of the code. I once dragged a stack of beach towels off the shelf and to the manager of a store because the design printed on the towel was the US flag. I don't mind much if the flag is flown from the wrong spot on a boat but throwing it on the beach and lying on top of it is very very wrong.
I agree
Many people have died to protect that flag. We should not let it be disgraced. Sure, it's a free country and all, but I think we owe it to those who fought and died for that freedom to not disrespect the flag they carried and protected in battle. Pick something else to lay on and burn. How about the dollor bill?
Many people have died to protect that flag. We should not let it be disgraced. Sure, it's a free country and all, but I think we owe it to those who fought and died for that freedom to not disrespect the flag they carried and protected in battle. Pick something else to lay on and burn. How about the dollor bill?
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