Fitting the double bow roller.....

n6ric · Mar 4, 2012

Johnny,
You can take a look at my pics of installinng the bow roller. I was able to get backing plates on, and did the work by myself, but you're right about it being a pain. I removed the forward water tank and turned that area into my chain locker. It does require a PVC tube coming down from the windless in the middle of the v-berth, but really the only way to get a decent size chain locker.

I haven't mounted the windless yet. I been busy in the main cabin. But should get to it in the next couple of months. I had to buy it and create the mount and drill the holes so that I could finish the v-berth. Hope this helps.
Fair winds,

Ric
s/v Blue Max
#2692
www.ric-maxfield.Net

johnadenney · Mar 4, 2012

Hi Ric, many thanks - just been reading your website and noticed that
you are a commodore!!!! Fabulous stuff! Well done for getting a
backing plate in - I struggled to get the big washers in - hope it
will be strong enough? There are a total of 8 bolts so I guess it is
a lot stronger than the original.
Your web site is great - what an fantastic job you are doing - puts me
to shame! It looks truly amazing. I wish I knew a bit more about
boat fixing!

I don't suppose you have had the need to check the alignment of the
combi/propshaft thing on yours? I have re-furbished mine and was
wondering if I can just put it all back together or if there is a
special way to set it up? Just really want to be sure that the engine
and the propshaft are not fighting each other!

Again, thanks for the link - really cool stuff.

Regards

n6ric · Mar 6, 2012

Johnny,
It's funny that you should ask about the combi. I'll probably be thought a bit of a traitor here, but I decided to pull the diesel and combi and go with an outboard. Suzuki makes a 15hp four stroke long shaft outboard that only weighs 107 pounds. Everything is self contained, so no alignment issues. I found a stern mount with a long travel on it so I can get the prop down low in the water when I'm using it and completely out of the water when I'm not. There's a company, Power Tiller I believe, that puts the power controls on your tiller and provides the linkage so that you can tie the swing of the outboard to your rudder angle, providing much better control backing and at slow speeds.

I'll put a tank in the port cockpit locker that will be close enough to the outboard that I won't need an additional fuel pump. I'll have 420 amp hours of battery power (4 6v golf cart batteries) that fit perfectly where the diesel used to be. The outboard is electric start and has an alternator that will charge the batteries. I'll also have solar and wind charging on board.

The big advantage is that if you have to have the motor worked on, no one has to mess up your cabin to do the work. They can even take it into the shop easily at that weight. Not to mention the outboard is a third of the cost of a new diesel.

My big decision left to make is how to best seal the prop shaft hole. I'm thinking of making a plate that I can bolt over the opening and make sure it's well sealed. I don't want to permanently seal the hole in case I or some new owner someday wants to put a diesel back in. I'm open to suggestions

Ric
s/v Blue Max
#2692
www.ric-maxfield.net

johnadenney · Mar 7, 2012

Ric
Well.... that has made me think! I used to have an Achilles 24 and
that had an outboard (in a well) which worked really well and was much
easier to deal with than an inboard engine. The more I think about it
the more attractive your solution is! Just think about all the space
it will liberate! Have you tried it out yet? I would love to see
some pics if you have them and details of were you bought the
controls... I will have to stick with what I have for now (money!) -
MD6A and combi - but if it packs up on me I think an outboard may be
the answer! Just to confirm I understand right - you have some
control system that allows you to alter throttle and gears from the
cockpit?
I have a horrible feeling that my engine/ propshaft are not aligned-
evidenced by the wear on one side of the control shaft.. I shall see
if I can make it up as I go along as no one seems to have done an
alignment on the combi system..

Thanks for the response...
John

j.hunter9999 · Mar 7, 2012

Ric - I doubt anyone is going to think you a traitor for replacing the power plant with an outboard. Although the diesel is a tried and true, long lasting, virtually maintenance free motor, the cons of the combi have been discussed here many times. I, like John, will replace the Volvo with a long shaft outboard of some kind, should she ever decide that retirement is a better option than pushing our Vega around for a few hours a year.

Did you beef up the transom at all?

Jack
Bella - V2620

stevebirch2002 · Mar 7, 2012

Hi Ric

You've spent so much time, effort and money on Blue Max that i think you really should reconsider ref. the engine. Get a new diesel (Beta fits well), I promise you it will make all the difference. With your skills it will be a beautiful installtion and alignment on Series II Vegas is an absolute doddle!

All in my humble opinion!

Cheers

Steve B

SVFlyAway · Mar 7, 2012

Ric,

I have to second Steve's recommendation. I installed a Beta with a coupler
and it went in easily. I bought the Centaflex coupler, the volvo seal, a
new shaft, and a new prop. I didn't go with a Max prop as I normally did on
other boats as that seemed extravagant on the Vega. But they are easy to
add later, unlike refitting a diesel.

Considering what you've said about running computers, SSB, a refer, and, I
assume, other electronics, your daily power consumption will probably run
over 100 amps hours. Also, from what you have said, you plan on some
extensive cruising and not going from Marina to Marina. If the latter is
the case, then seriously consider the diesel.

When I was cruising on my bigger boat I also had Radar on all the time as
well as that list. I normally ran over 170 amp hours/day. Granted it was a
40 foot HR and not a Vega, but power consumption is power consumption. An
outboard can't possibly keep up. Over the years I have had many boats.
Those I had with OBs always had the cavitation problem since the stern is
often lifted on a swell. That was most annoying

I used a trolling generator very successfully when I cruised and this did
generate most of my power. I made 7 amps at 7 kts and it seemed somewhat
proportional as the speed varied. But even still I have to run the diesel
to top up the batteries. I had a wind generator too and that wasn't worth
the trouble. The solar panels didn't seem to do much either.

Anyway when I repowered Flyaway I serious thought about an outboard, but
went back to the Beta.

Chris

n6ric · Mar 7, 2012

Jack,
I haven't got to the point of buying and mounting the outboard yet. I'm just planning on putting a good sized stainless steel backing plate on the inside and will probably epoxy in place to help distribute the load. It shouldn't take much more than that.

Johnny,
The website for the Power Tiller I was talking about is http://powertiller.net/ I talked to the owner and he can pretty much tailor it to any recently produced outboard.

I understand Steve and Chris' arguments for going with a diesel and I've gone back and forth in trying to decide the best approach. That's why I want to seal the prop shaft hole in such a manner that I can unseal it without damaging it. If at some point I don't feel the outboard is the right match for what I want to accomplish, I can sell the outboard and buy a diesel. I really see the use of the engine for getting in and out of harbors and anchorages and not the primary means of propulsion. Lin and Larry Pardey have sailed all over the world that way for 20+ years, as well as a host of others.

I also realize that I have to be aware of my power requirements, which is why all my lighting is LED and I will have several recharging sources.

I still have a lot of work to do to get her back in the water and I'm sure I'll love sailing her (can I call Blue Max a her?) either way. I appreciate all the input and insight and we'll see how it goes.

Ric
s/v Blue Max
#2692
www.ric-maxfield.net

trageharrie · Mar 8, 2012

Hi,
This is Bob Horjus from Vega 1677 Mooi Weer,
Has anyone of you considered electric propulsion like is demonstrated on

and other video's on the same subject.
We are still having a MD6a running but eventually it will need to be replaced and I am looking forward to do so with an electric device. No smell and dirt, more economic and environmental friendly and less weight. Because motors are allready better than combustion engines and batteries are getting better and cheaper over time. Besides that, other means of gaining and storing electric energy will surely gain terrain.
So I think this is the future of propulsion for sailboats and I hope to see the first Vega owner having an electric system installed.

Regards from a convinced Bob Horjus

j.hunter9999 · Mar 8, 2012

Hi Bob. I have considered the electric motor as a replacement. I am not at the point where I need to replace the Volvo. I don't think the electric motor and battery configuration is quite there yet in terms of technology or cost. However, when I get to the point of replacement, I can see updating my research to include the electric alternative again. Thanks for your comments about the electric option! Very good points.

Jack
Bella - V2620

dougpol1 · Mar 8, 2012

On 03/08/2012 08:56 AM, j.hunter9999 wrote:

jbergman888 · Mar 8, 2012

Ric,Power tiller looks like a great invention. I look forward to hearing more when you start to use it. What long travel bracket have you decided on for you outboard?thanks,Bruce S/v Cygnet

Joseph "Bruce" Bergman

To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
From: horjus2003@...
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 08:38:04 +0000
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Fitting the double bow roller.....

Hi,

This is Bob Horjus from Vega 1677 Mooi Weer,

Has anyone of you considered electric propulsion like is demonstrated on

and other video's on the same subject.

We are still having a MD6a running but eventually it will need to be replaced and I am looking forward to do so with an electric device. No smell and dirt, more economic and environmental friendly and less weight. Because motors are allready better than combustion engines and batteries are getting better and cheaper over time. Besides that, other means of gaining and storing electric energy will surely gain terrain.

So I think this is the future of propulsion for sailboats and I hope to see the first Vega owner having an electric system installed.
Regards from a convinced Bob Horjus

johnadenney · Mar 8, 2012

Ric, I would also be interested in that information. Also - do you
know what sort of output the alternator of an outboard would produce -
say from a 10 - 15 Hp? I saw somewhere (think is was in Scandinavia
somewhere?) that a "well" had been cut out of the cockpit of a Vega
and an outboard dropped in! Quite a big job - but a clever idea!

j.hunter9999 · Mar 8, 2012

Doug makes some good points, which is why I mentioned that I think the electric motor is something to be looked at as the technology improves and the cost decreases. There are many people with documented success sailing without any motor at all. An electric power plant would be no worse than that and certainly an improvement on a sculling oar. Consider the advances in technology, power production and electronics over the past 40 years. It doesn't take much creativity to imagine what might be available in another 5 to 10 years...just an open mind.

Jack

n4lbl · Mar 8, 2012

I offer the following for a sense of history:

In '07 we happened to stop at the Mystic (Connecticut) Museum and there was
a regatta (can't remember the theme) that included a lovely run-about from
Wisconsin or Minnesota. It was built in the nineteenth century with
electric propulsion and had all the original gear except for lead-acid
batteries. If I recall right the only maintenance to the propulsion gear
was changing the motor brushes. I also think I recall that the owner
thought it has been used every summer since it was built.

Alan

n6ric · Mar 8, 2012

The alternator on the Suzuki puts out 12 amps. Not a whole lot, but in conjunction with other charging it will do. I'll probably carry a Honda 2000 generator as a backup on longer trips being that I'll be carrying gasoline anyway.

I looked at electric and the motors are great. It's the battery technology that isn't there yet. You need 48 volts for most of the electric motors. You end up with about 500 pounds of batteries if you go with lead acid. You can drop that weight substantially, and the space, if you go with lithium ion batteries, but you end up spending about $10,000 for the batteries. There are a lot of people going in that direction and Hunter now offers two of their smaller models with electric propulsion, however, the Vega just doesn't have the real estate to waste for the batteries.

One of the reasons I like the outboard solution so well is my total outlay is under $3000.00 and if technology improves or I decide I just have to have a diesel, the heartburn won't be so bad.

Ric
s/v Blue Bax
#2692
www.ric-maxfield.net

n6ric · Mar 8, 2012

Bruce,
I'm out of town until tomorrow. When I get back I'll post the link to the mount that I found.

Ric
s/v Blue Bax
#2692
www.ric-maxfield.net

stevebirch2002 · Mar 9, 2012

Hi all

Just adding my two penneth again. Here in the UK there has been great leaps into using Electric Cars, now lots of prices are bandied around about maintenance BUT they never seem to mention the life of the batteries. As Boat Owners we all know that batteries do not last that long so surely this must be taken into the equation...?

Steve B

n6ric · Mar 9, 2012

Bruce,
Here is the link to the outboard bracket. It has a 15" of travel and can handle up to a 25hp four stroke motor. It's a bit pricey, but looks to be good quality. It's a Garelick 71091 if you have a problem with the link.

http://www.wholesalemarine.com/pc/GAR-71091/1100161/Auxiliary+Motor+Mounts/Garelick+4+Stroke+Outboard+Motor+Bracket+7-25+HP%2C+15%22+Travel.html#readmore

Ric
s/v Blue Max
#2692
www.ric-maxfield.net