Fisher panda / Kabota smoking on startup

[ice breaker]

I have a 2004 fisher panda 6000 gen set powered by a kabota 2 cylinder. It has about 1500 hours on it. It has developed a habit of spewing lots of white smoke on initial cold start up. After it warms up no smoke. All restarts for the remainder of the trip are generally smoke free. It is just the first cold start of the trip. It has gotten so bad that I am reluctant to start it in the marina( I start erverything while tied up be fore ever leaving the dock). I do not have any coolant disappearing, and the oil level is fine. the smoke on startup smells of partially burned fuel, in my opinion.
I called FP in FL and they never got back to me after an initial triage by a newby on the front desk.

Any diesel mechanics out there that might have a clue?

Thanks!

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

It has developed a habit of spewing lots of white smoke on initial cold start up.

How long is the cranking to start the engine when cold ? Do you know what the voltage at the starter motor is when starting cold ?

The answer to these two questions will most likely solve your problem.

 

[kloudie1]

Glow plugs (both of em) working OK?
Sounds kinda like a dirty injector if the plugs are fine.

 

[ice breaker]

How long is the cranking to start the engine when cold ? Do you know what the voltage at the starter motor is when starting cold ?

The answer to these two questions will most likely solve your problem.

It is a Kabota so first start of a trip always gets 12 seconds of glow, and then it is an instant start. The starting has not not gotten harder, but I may perceive a bit of roughness at startup. I have not checked the voltage, however, there is NO reduction in starter speed.

 

[ice breaker]

Glow plugs (both of em) working OK?
Sounds kinda like a dirty injector if the plugs are fine.

I believe both glow plugs are fine. I know the relay is fine as this is a Kubota, with swirl chambers, there is NO way it will start without a functioning glow plug relay......of which I have a spare. Ask me how I know......

I am leaning towards dirty injector...but I need someone smarter than me to suggest a solution. Thanks!

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

It is a Kabota so first start of a trip always gets 12 seconds of glow, and then it is an instant start. The starting has not not gotten harder,

Most unusual. If the engine starts instantly, I've got to wonder where the extra fuel comes from that is causing all of the white smoke on start up ? ? ? ?

How many seconds of glow plug do your apply on starting up further into your trip.

 

[jssailem]

Servicing the injectors, if it has been a long time since last service is reasonable. You are correct about the unburnt fuel. That is the white smoke.

Another possibility is the timing might have slipped on you. A minor adjustment might solve this issue. Another check is to compare the fuel consumption from before the smoke to now.

 

[ice breaker]

Most unusual. If the engine starts instantly, I've got to wonder where the extra fuel comes from that is causing all of the white smoke on start up ? ? ? ?

How many seconds of glow plug do your apply on starting up further into your trip.

After it has run for a while at the beginning of a trip, it never gets glowed again. The sound shield keeps it very warm.

 

[ice breaker]

I will put a meter on the individual glow plugs today. Maybe one is failed and I am only starting on a single cylinder.......

 

[ice breaker]

I will put a meter on the individual glow plugs today. Maybe one is failed and I am only starting on a single cylinder.......

both glow plugs had continuity. Too bad, I was hoping for an easy fix.

My next guess would be to pull the injectors and have them checked out.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.

And just to be clear, I ran the gen set about 8 hrs yesterday an 4 today with no issues( need to make heat for the cabin, anchored out). It is only the initial startup that is the problem.

Thanks again for the suggestions!

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

After it has run for a while at the beginning of a trip, it never gets glowed again.

"Desperate times call for desperate measures".

The difference here is that when you glow plug for 12 seconds you get white smoke. Before you pull the injectors, try glowing for 12 seconds even though you don't need it now as you are well into your trip. Maybe it'll smoke. Seems like a dumb idea but it's easier and cheaper than pulling the injectors.

After that idea fails, looks like pulling the injectors is your next best bet. Something in the injector may be leaking very slowly and allowing fuel to accumulate in the cylinder over a long period of time..

 

[ice breaker]

"Desperate times call for desperate measures".

The difference here is that when you glow plug for 12 seconds you get white smoke. Before you pull the injectors, try glowing for 12 seconds even though you don't need it now as you are well into your trip. Maybe it'll smoke. Seems like a dumb idea but it's easier and cheaper than pulling the injectors.

After that idea fails, looks like pulling the injectors is your next best bet. Something in the injector may be leaking very slowly and allowing fuel to accumulate in the cylinder over a long period of time..

Yes, it smokes after sitting for a week or two. Yesterday it had not been started in 1 month, and the smoke was the worst I have seen. Might be a drippy injector.....

Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[Terry Cox]

Our three cylinder Kubota Genset User Manual calls for a maximum of 30 second glow plug warm up before starting when cold. Normally, I'll do 15-20 seconds. Never a problem with any kind of smoke. No diesel mechanic here, either, but I've always thought that excess fuel in the chamber would cause blue/black smoke at start up. White was usually an indication of excess moisture in the cylinder.

 

[ice breaker]

Our three cylinder Kubota Genset User Manual calls for a maximum of 30 second glow plug warm up before starting when cold. Normally, I'll do 15-20 seconds. Never a problem with any kind of smoke. No diesel mechanic here, either, but I've always thought that excess fuel in the chamber would cause blue/black smoke at start up. White was usually an indication of excess moisture in the cylinder.

thanks for the data point. I need to speak with a kabota mechanic. I am generally good with engines and mechanical stuff but I am a bit stumped. It is white smoke on start up( no load) but it just stinks of fuel. I do not believe that I am loosing any coolant........

Sure hope it is not a Head gasket leak.

 

[WayneH]

I'm not a diesel mechanic and I haven't slept in a Holiday Inn Express so take this for what you paid for it.

My Westerbeke 50 vintage 1980 has white smoke on startup. As soon as the cylinders heat up the engine smooths out and the white smoke goes away. My thought is one or more glow plugs have failed and need replacing. And they don't make the OEM glow plugs anymore so I am still trying to get replacements. This sounds like your issue. Me? I'm just living with the smoke for now.

A few years back, I had the injection pump refurbished. I reinstalled it using the marks I scribed before removal. On start up, it belched white smoke. A diesel mechanic told me the timing was off and helped me fix the problem. Adjust the timing, start the engine, observe the exhaust, repeat until the exhaust is clear. This does not sound like your problem.