First Time Buying Advise (Pacific NW)

[GaryS]

First let me say that I would be very happy and appreciative for a few general pointers/answers to my question. 25 years ago I was on a Cal 34 that made a trip from Tacoma WA to the San Juans. It was one of the best vacations I have had. I am finally ready to purchase my own boat. I have some some ideas about what I would like to find in a boat. They are:
Approximately 27'
Outboard Motor
6' cabin headroom
Marine head
Lower than average maintenance (if possible)
Stable enough to take to the San Juans
Between $6,000 and $12,000 (Could possibly go as high as 15K)
Tiller not a wheel

I should add that I would be mooring the boat on Lake Washington. I like the look of Bristols and Thunderbirds, but I am not sure if something more along the lines of a Catalina would make more sense. I realize that personal loyalties and preferences may affect your answer, but what I would like to know is what boats would make sense for me to focus my search on? Again any advise or pointers would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Gary

 

[Bad Obsession]

Why would you prefer an outboard?
Any reason to cap it at 27 feet?

An older Catalina 30 would have the 6' head room, plenty or room inside, they are stable, still can get parts for them, and they are well put together.

Catalina 27s are good boats as well. The outboard versions of this boat aren't as common. There isn't 6' of head room in them either.

Bristol 27s are nice boats and they were well built. There wasn't that many built, as I recall, and there aren't that many of them around. The one at my dock is an inboard. There is also a bristo 29.5 at my dock that is very nice.

If you plan to spend time on the boat, get something that you can afford, but get as big as you can afford. All boats require maintenance but if you do a lot of it yourself it is easier to deal with in regards to your wallet.

You could find other boats in that range, or slightly bigger for that price range. Say under $1500? Hunter 30, maybe the Hunter 33 (Cheribini design and were well made in an early 80s vintage), C & C 32 (my uncle picked one up for 15K), Catalina 27, Catalina 30, Pearson 30, and a bunch of other boats. do a search on www.yachtworld.com and see what you find that fits your needs. Then go and look at a bunch of boats. Make a list of Pros and Cons for the boat and then make an educated decision once you have seen a bunch of boats.

 

[higgs]

In your price range, you should be able to go into 30 - 32 feet. You get a lot more boat at 32 than at 27.

 

[Les]

I haven't responded to a request on this list for some time and I'm not sure I can answer your questions. Many years ago after having a Comet (day sailer) at Leschi, my wife and I bought a Cal 20. We kept it at Leschi but in the summers we would go out the canal, the locks and head north. We explored most of Puget Sound. We finally found a slip at Shilshole. Then we traded it in on a Pearson 27 that had an outboard. Worst boat I ever had but we still had fun and kept exploring including the San Juans.

We've had eight other boats after that Pearson.... Gary...don't listen to any of us as to which boat is best. The best boat is the one you fall in love with, the one that makes your heart flutter when you see it at the dock. I've loved all my boats--even the Pearson.

I'm now in my mid seventies and just bought a Hunter 27. I'm downsizing but I still enjoy going out into the bay just to sail--by myself or with a friend. It is not the boat but the activity of sailing that is important. Just find a boat that you think is good looking and it makes sense to you and start having fun. Don't miss a day of "messing about in boats."

My best to you.

 

[GaryS]

Thanks B.O. Higgs and Les. I appreciate the responses. All very helpful. I am thinking of staying smaller because I would sooner have newer and better condition than older and more boat, and from what I have been seeing on line, that puts me in the 27' range, but that could change of course. Regarding my desire for an outboard, I am terrified of an inboard. I can build and fix different things but I know nothing about motors or engines. And Les it's a coincidence you mention Leschi. I live directly across the street from the north slips. It's a great spot, I don't know why it's taken me this long to get serious about purchasing a sailboat. But better late than never........thanks again.

 

[Joseph Shirley]

Gary, as a long time sailor of Thunderbirds (45 years) and a real lover of the class I am glad that you said you liked them. They are a terrific sailing boat and handled correctly they can sail in winds from 0 to 50 knots without making a sail change. Its been done many times by many t-birders but it's not encouraged and it's hard on sails. The boat is very forgiving and easy to sail for the beginner and has enough go fast stuff to keep the most experienced racer happy. Thunderbirds have won just about every race in the Pacific NW, have been boat of the year in the sound, and one holds the course record for the around the sound race. They have a great organization and are more fun for the dollar than just about any other class, and I still have one on a trailer. The class is loaded with top skippers including many sailmakers, and they of course do steer with a tiller.

Now with that said; I have to tell you that the accommodations are spartan. They can sleep 4, have a portapotty, a stove (generally 2 burner), a sink and an Ice box, and little more. They generally do not have lifelines and they either have a pop top for headroom when anchored or moored, or a sliding hatch for quicker access to the interior for racing. These have unlimited headroom when you stand in the hatchway.
So if you are looking for a boat that is a comfortable cruiser to spend time inside in comfort I'll steer you elsewhere.

As previously mentioned a Catalina 30 seems to be extremely popular for what they offer but I doubt you will find one in your price range. I do however think you could get a Catalina 27, Pearson 27, a Hunter 27 or some other boat in that size which should suit your needs beautifully,and within your budget; and they are all suitable for Puget Sound sailing, including the San Juans and the Gulf Islands.

Take some time and look around, there are lots of good boats out there.

Good Luck

Joe S

 

[Bad Obsession]

Outboards have their own series of issues. Inboards seem intimidating at first, but once you learn the nature of the beast, they are very easy to deal with. I was nervous about my inboard diesel at first, but after having my boat for 4 years I have learned a lot.

Basics..... For a diesel to run you need fuel and electricity. If it doesn't crank, check the ground (if the starter isn't engaging). Also check the batteries.
If it cranks but won't run, it is fuel. Start at the fuel filter. That will usually take care of MOST of your problems with a diesel.

Fuel filters, like racors, are a piece of cake to change. I have also done my secondary filter and it was easy. Oil is just like changing the oil in a car's engine but you suck the oil up through a dipstick tube. It is very easy as well.

I have changed my impeller a few times and changed the fresh water circulating pump on the diesel. The belt is also easy to change and put in.

If you have an inboard, you will charge your batteries through an altinator and you will have hot water aboard the boat. Both things are great creature comforts.

Outboards, while they seem simple, tend to have issues in rough water. The props tend to cavitate easy. Futhermore, they are not nearly as efficient and you will never have the range with an outboard that you have with an inboard. Outboards also require a bit of service.

Practicle Sailor put out an article a few years back and it was titled something like "Living the 30 foot Dream" It spoke of Tartan 30s, Catalina 30s, and Pearson 30s and it talked about the build and the room inside.

Maintenance wise, there isn't much difference in money between a 27 and a 30 but room wise there is a huge jump.

As far as age....Remember that the older boats may be in better shape than a newer boat if the owner took good care of them. Look at a lot of boats and see what fits you best!

 

[higgs]

The inboard is superior to an outboard in every way. Even in the event of total failure, inboards are not usually that hard to get in and out of a reasonably well designed boat.

Diesel is better than gas, but avoid a single cylinder. I would look for a boat with a 3 cylinder diesel. A well cared for engine will outlast you and caring for a diesel is pretty easy.

 

[Les]

Gary and others looking for their first boat. I was once like you--really wanting a "real" sailboat, one that you could sleep in. I had this wood Comet, a wonderful day sailer but I wanted a "big" boat. I bought the plans for the T-bird and put them on the walls at home. Looked at them every day. I even went to a builder on Lake Union and asked how much it would cost to build just the hull. Too much--I was a beginning school teacher on the low end of the salary schedule. My wife and I even drove to Portland, OR one weekend to talk to a company down there about the Cascade 29. They would build me a hull and I could truck it home to Renton. I really didn't think I could cut plywood with any degree of skill to build a Cascade. So the T-bird and Cascade 29 got put into the "dream file."

On weekends I would walk the docks in Seattle looking at used boats (this was in the mid 1960s). I really wanted a real sailboat. I even went to the bank in the district where I was teaching and asked how much I could get for a loan on a sailboat--and they laughed at me. "Teachers couldn't afford sailboats." The president of the bank was a member of my school board-would you believe it?

But damn, I was going to get a bigger boat. One Saturday I saw a small boat and I fell in love with it. It was a Cal 20, white with bight red trim, made in Canada. The Cal 40 had just won the TransPac race and I figured this little boat would be good. I remember going back every so often to look and sit in it. But it was $3600 new and I just didn't even have a down payment. I really loved that boat.

One Saturday on a trip into Seattle I stopped by to "look at my boat," and the dealer had it "on sale" down to $3000. I was besides myself. Someone might buy "my" boat. My wife, always the saner of the two talked to the salesman and he said go across the lake and talk to this broker--he always has money to lend on boats. The dealer also said he would consider the $600 difference in price our down payment. Wow! Well, we went home and talked about it. Neither of us were sure about a broker who loaned money on boats--might be the mafia or something. But on schedule, the next Saturday we went back, looked at our boat and headed around the lake to the broker.

What a guy--middle aged sort of a grandfather type and he welcomed this young couple in. "Want to buy a boat?" "No problem." Lynn, my wife, gave him our last tax statement and some other papers and within a half hour we had signed for our boat....with an interest rate well below what the banks were charging. The broker knew the boat and thought it was a good buy. Also had we planned on insurance? Hell, no I hadn't planned on anything, I just wanted that boat. So he signed us up on insurance and then we talked about where we would keep it. He said the dealer would probably allow us to keep the boat there for several weeks while we check with the parks department to see if I could change boats at Leschi. But the broker also sat down with us and said, take the USPS course and come back and tell me how you are doing. He was truly interested in us getting started in boating. That Saturday afternoon we sailed "our" boat on Lake Union and felt like we were on top of the world. [we bought three more boats through him]

Later on we moved the boat to Leschi. Leschi is halfway between two floating bridges on Lake Washington and it is the perfect place to improve your sailing skills. Never large waves (the bridges keep it calm) and the two of us would drive over after work and sail up and down peering into apartment windows at dusk. It was wonderful.

Our first big "cruise" was to circumnavigate Mercer Island. We thought we had gone around the world. My wife kept the chart out the whole time and we ticked off the towns and points of land as we went around. What a sail.

Gary, you live in the perfect spot. I had wanted to move there a few years after we bought the Cal20....but as usual couldn't afford it. But it is a amazing spot and a wonderful marina.

I hope all of you who are looking to buy your first boat and "learn to sail and cruise" have as much fun as we did. It is a great way of living. E-mail me off line if you want to ask questions.

My best to you.

Les

 

[Stu Jackson]

Another link

see reply #3 here: http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=110416

 

[GaryS]

Thanks again Joe, B.O., Higgs, Les and Stu, all very much appreciated.

 

[Bad Obsession]

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...0&city=&rid=108&pbsint=&boatsAddedSelected=-1

Check out this site and the search. There is a lot to choose from. Take a look at some of these boats and try to figure out what will fit your purposes best. Write down the result and take plenty of pictures with your digital camera. When you are done in the field, go home and crunch the numbers. The boat that stands out is the winner will be your best choice!

 

[Morgan0505]

I'm in your position. First time boat buyer, and trying to sort through all the choices and options. I sailed a lot as a teenager, but 40+ years later, the skills need some updating. I will also be doing a lot of single-hand sailing. Two things that have helped me get ready for all of this.

First, I took a 3-day on-the-water sailing course which was certified by the American Sailing Association. We sailed a 29' C&C, and it gave me the confidence to look at larger boats than I was originally considering. I am planning on taking their next level course next spring. I'm now looking at some boats between 27' and 31'.

Second, I have a friend with a 22' Catalina that was not going in the water this year - I made a deal with him to do the work to get it ready to sail, in return for which, I could use the boat for the summer. I've been out single-handing the boat several weekends and plan to continue throught the fall while I do my research an look for my own boat.

It is great being on the water (in my case the Chesapeake), but easy to get paralized with analysis and aprehension. My plan is to sail the summer, find a boat I like, can handle and can afford in the fall and get on with it.

If you like, you can email me and we can compare notes. morgan0505@gmail.com

Hope to hear from you.

 

[GaryS]

Thanks again everyone. Les, My Email address is Garys_999@yahoo.com. (And that is an underscore between the s and the 9). Drop me a note and I will let you know how things progress and I am sure ask you the odd question every so often. And Morgan I will let you know how I proceed. One nice development is that I signed up on the Thunderbird website to crew on a Thunderbird moored in Leschi and I am meeting a captain tomorrow at noon. If things work out some day sailing at first and then Wednesday night races.....Thanks all again.

 

[West Seattle Matt]

Thunderbird

Gary,

I signed up to crew on a Thunderbird earlier this spring and have spent just about every Wednesday since crewing on John Monk's Thunderbird #1006, Aozora. It didn't take long before I felt compelled to find one of my own and spend a large amount of my spare time shopping for Tbirds on Craigslist and traveling to view a few.

You can find the wood ones for next to nothing, and in varying states of disrepair. In fact, a guy in Gig Harbor is selling one on CG for $1,900. But the wood Tbirds, like any wood boat, requires quite a bit of maintenance.

I found a Booth built fiberglass Tbird on Victoria's CG in June and made an offer I couldn't refuse and, much to my surprise, they accepted it. Three weeks ago I traveled up to North Saanich, B.C. and returned to Seattle with Tbird #1021. My blog of the trip can be found here:

http://tbird1021.blogspot.com/

The Thunderbirds are a lot of fun to sail and are more of a racer than a cruiser. You can cruise on one, but if you become involved in the Wednesday night race series, you will probably find yourself thinking less and less about cruising.