First Sail: O'Day 25

[Ron20386]

My wife and I helped out some friends who just bought a (1984?) O'Day 25 centerboard model by taking them out for their first sail on the Toms River in NJ. The boat did not handle at all like I expected so I'm trying to figure out what's wrong.

Winds were 8-12MPH. The boat has a 135% roller furling jenny which we used from 70% to fully deployed over the course of the day.

The main thing I noticed about the boat was that it generally wanted to rotate rather than drive forward. I've sailed enough to know about balancing sails, mast rake, CB position, etc., but the boat was just handling different than anything I've ever sailed. Each tack would result in the boat falling too far off. She only responded to the helm once it got moving more. Of course no rudder works if water isn't flowing over it but on this boat it felt like the rudder was too small.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

The 25 is a proven boat, so maybe I just need to get a feel for her but, like I wrote, this one didn't handle like anything I've ever sailed.

My first thought is that the sails are blown out.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Knotty

 

[Indysailor]

I'd think the boat should have been fine with the full genoa under those conditions. Even with my old main and genoa my 23 was able sail all right in those winds. However, you've not given us much to go on. Give more detail about how the boat handled and maybe we can help figure it out.

One thought; my boat sails well with the main reefed and a full genoa, but not so lively with just the main. It will feel sluggish and certainly in only a 10kt breeze it might tack slowly and take its time making way after coming about. If you have reefed the genoa and it does not have a foam luff, it may not have a very efficient shape, and thus is not providing enough drive. You might reef the main instead to see what happens.

 

[Ward H]

Hi Knotty,
Found your post after I sent the e-mail. Has the bottom been checked? Wanting to rotate rather than drive forward sounds to me like something dragging.
Mine has an outboard and I can leave the OB down while sailing and while it slows me down it does not affect the steering.
Does the centerboard feel like it is pulling up and dropping down smoothly. I can sail with mine up and not really notice it unless I am trying to point up real tight.
Keel damage?
By comparison, I have rudder steerage as I coast into my slip with the OB in N. If there is water passing the rudder, I have steerage.

As I noted in my e-mail, I would check to see if the rudder was damaged or shortened.

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

first thing I would do is get the boat in at least six feet of water, jump in, and confirm that the C/B is coming all the way down. Very common for them to stick in the up position if boat sits awhile with no use.
also take a glance and make sure jib sheets are passing thru their free standing deck block. sometimes people take them out with a big Genny.
My personal experience is that my O'Day 23 sails like a pig if it's C/B is stuck in up position. Good luck to you.

 

[Ron20386]

Thanks all for the comments.

With genoa alone, I'm pretty sure we would not have been able to keep her from falling off. I don't remember seeing a foam insert in the luff.

The CB seems to be dropping properly. It pulled out what looked like a reasonable amount of line as it went down and we could feel its weight, though light, on the line as we pulled it up. The boat did best when the CB was full down.

Next time I'm on the boat I'll report back with more observations.

 

[agprice22]

Weeds? When my boat gets weeds on the keel or the rudder, it gets wicked lee-helm. It will not drive up at all. Was the tiller vibrating? My tiller pulses, vibrates, or wobbles when I have weeds on my keel or rudder. Then I know it is time to raise the keel and clean the rudder or go diving!

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[Brian S]

I have had the same problem on a Com-Pac 19 with a big genoa. God, I HATE short tacking that boat, and our lake is narrow enough that sometimes, no matter what you want to call it, it's short tacking.

Anyway, I find that you slowly sheet in the genoa after a tack. The sail HAS to start drawing first, even if the luff is luffing, then when you get moving, you can trim to proper trim. If you trim that genoa too soon, it just acts like a big barn door, and the bow will blow off to lee, erasing all the precious CMG you have clawed back over the past 2 tacks...

Also, with my keel/CB 192, if I'm in weeds, I WILL pick them up on the CB pendant line, and after that, she'll fall off to leeward after a tack, and she won't accelerate out of a tack.

Brian

 

[cb32863]

I have had the same experience with my 25. My CB was stuck up so we hauled the boat and pried it out. My mainsail is also original, 1977, so that is definitely an issue as she seem to only "behave" in higher winds when the main actually provides some drive. I am thinking I get weeds now too as the lake is full of them and we are always knocking them off the rudder so the CB has to be catching them as well. One trick we did a week or so ago was to slow down while motoring out and then put it in reverse and back up. In deeper water this should back the weeds off the CB. Doesn't hurt to be part of the process. Keep us posted on what you find out.

 

[Ron20386]

Weeds is a good suggestion. There have been many times on Barnegat Bay where that caused problems while sailing for me but on this trip in the Toms River I don't think it was an issue.

Being new to using a genoa, I'm leaning towards that being the issue. I may have a chance to get out this week to see if improving my sail handling resolves things.

My "bigger" boat was a water ballasted Hunter 26 which was has a large main, fairly forward mast location and small jib, so that's what I'm used to. It's definitely more tender than the O'Day 25 but despite having no keel whatsoever, just a centerboard, it responded very well to the helm. Think I just need to relearn some things with the 25.

Thanks
Knotty

 

[cb32863]

Ron, just to be clear, the 25 does have a keel. Its a shoal draft of 27" with 1500# of lead encased. The centerboard drops down from the trunk in the keel. Which gives it a total draft of 6'-0". As far as I know there is another 15# of lead in the "bottom" of the centerboard which has a total weight of about 65#.

 

[Ron20386]

Ron, just to be clear, the 25 does have a keel. Its a shoal draft of 27" with 1500# of lead encased. The centerboard drops down from the trunk in the keel. Which gives it a total draft of 6'-0". As far as I know there is another 15# of lead in the "bottom" of the centerboard which has a total weight of about 65#.

Understood. I was referring to my Hunter not having any keel, just the CB, yet it still handled well. My choice of wording probably didn't make that clear.

Also, not trying to create a this boat vs. that boat debate. Just using the Hunter as a point of reference.

Knotty

 

[Ron20386]

Forgot to ask...

Does anyone have a drawing as to how the genoa sheets should be run? If not a verbal description is fine.

I assumed that the sheets are run over the lifeline and outboard the shrouds to the track mounted blocks on each side of the cockpit?

 

[Erieau]

I assumed that the sheets are run over the lifeline and outboard the shrouds to the track mounted blocks on each side of the cockpit?

That is how mine are run, yes. I use the same blocks/tracks for my asym spin.

 

[geehaw]

I will say that the oday 2 never has to worry about being in irons as it wants to be broad side to it. Not sure that has anything to do with your problem. But I have trouble with mine from time to time in a tack and it wants to come around on me. I have found that back winding the jib for a bit to help bring you around faster and get it sheeted in as quickly as possible is necessary. My main was blown out when I bought the boat and I replaced it and it does make a big difference. It sails much better all around now. Centerboard down or up don't seem to make a difference as far as how she sails but side slip is huge without it. Mine seems to sail far better with the genoa then the #3 jib up to about 15 knots after that weather helm gets a bit strong. But even in 25 knot of wind heel was the same with either sail but weather helm was almost uncontrollable. With the blown main lee helm with the #3 jib was the drink of the day. I never understood what weather helm was my first few sails. Then I used the genoa and wow it sailed like it should. I guess it over powered the bad Main cause now I get weather helm with either sail with the new main.

So in conclusion I would say the 25 has a tendency to do circles on a tack get the jib in quick . And your sails might be blown. I bought this boat not knowing how to sail and am only in my 3rd sailing season. So any thing here might be wrong! But up to 15 knots of wind she sails great! Well as long as you don't go in a spin every tack. Good luck.